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Rear axle growl.

Discussion in 'General Tundra Discussion' started by Chuckt, Jan 30, 2014.

  1. Jan 30, 2014 at 8:37 AM
    #1
    Chuckt

    Chuckt [OP] New Member

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    At about 100k I had third set of tires put on. Stock steel wheels and of course I had to have the Toyota dealer balance them. Drat Toyota for those non-concentric wheel centers.
    Since then the rear axle has been growling. Not saying dealer did anything. Hoping it's pure happen stance.
    There is a TSB or two on probs with diff and axle bearings and baffles in diff. (Never heard of baffles inside diff before!).
    Power train warranty is 60k but called the Toyota 800 number anyway, got a polite "No".
    I expect to get hit with $ 900.00 or better bill from the garage we deal with (not Toyota dealer). Engine still strong, transmission OK and have just done brakes. Probably going to need shocks next. Getting 11 mpg (worst), best 18 mpg.
     
  2. Jan 30, 2014 at 8:41 AM
    #2
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 25 years ASE Master Certified Technician

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    50 miles past BFE, 13th trailer park on the right.
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    1997 Tacoma
    3 inch mixed component lift. Front locker, rear e-locker, 33 inch tires, custom dual batteries, 140A alternator, custom paint, many other mods to come!
    I am assuming that the Tundra is similar to the Tacoma in rear diff design. There are two "baffles" located inside the rear differential housing. One on each side. The purpose is to help with keeping the diff oil in and around the side bearings and carrier gears. Since our axle bearings are sealed, there is no need for oil to be inside the side tubes. These baffles help keep the oil from getting "slung" down the tubes, as well as when we are at extreme side angles, it reduces the amount of gear oil that will run down the tubes, and away from the carrier assembly. Good luck, and let us know what you find out.
     
    Bob likes this.
  3. Jan 30, 2014 at 9:16 AM
    #3
    Supermoto

    Supermoto New Member

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    Everything
    Drain the fluid and pop the axles out a bit so you can inspect the bearings. Really easy to do and if you don't see in marring on them, they are probably fine. Its pretty rare for the bearing to be the source of a growling. they tend to just go without warning when they do go. Rear end noise is usually the 3rd member, if you get it serviced its not too expensive but if it blows its very expensive.
     
    Bob likes this.
  4. Jan 30, 2014 at 10:25 AM
    #4
    Chuckt

    Chuckt [OP] New Member

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    Shop is getting the repair kit in. Diff bearing should last. But h*** what do I know.
     
  5. Jan 30, 2014 at 4:29 PM
    #5
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 25 years ASE Master Certified Technician

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    50 miles past BFE, 13th trailer park on the right.
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    1997 Tacoma
    3 inch mixed component lift. Front locker, rear e-locker, 33 inch tires, custom dual batteries, 140A alternator, custom paint, many other mods to come!
    When you say that they are getting the repair kit in, what do they mean? What repair kit? Carrier bearings? Axle bearings? Pinion bearings? Any idea?
     
    Supermoto likes this.
  6. Jan 31, 2014 at 2:15 AM
    #6
    Chuckt

    Chuckt [OP] New Member

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    Apparently there is a kit of all the relevant parts available for a diff rebuild.
    Carrier bearings, seals and the baffles, don't know about the spider.
    I think the pinion bearings and crush sleeve are separate nor does it include the rear wheel bearings and seals.
     
  7. Feb 3, 2014 at 12:49 PM
    #7
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 25 years ASE Master Certified Technician

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    50 miles past BFE, 13th trailer park on the right.
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    3 inch mixed component lift. Front locker, rear e-locker, 33 inch tires, custom dual batteries, 140A alternator, custom paint, many other mods to come!
    Spiders are not usually part of a generic rebuild. Those are considered part of the carrier itself.
     
  8. Feb 6, 2014 at 4:45 AM
    #8
    Chuckt

    Chuckt [OP] New Member

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    Tundra back today. WAS right rear axle inner bearing. Bad galling 1/4 outer race lowest position according to shop. $ 600.00, labor was $ 200.00. Will try to post picture from wife iPhone later.
     
  9. Feb 6, 2014 at 6:22 AM
    #9
    Chuckt

    Chuckt [OP] New Member

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    Rear bearing - upside down. And no I am certain that _this_ shop didn't have to cut it free. Condition doesn't say much for the factory assembly does it.Tundra RR axle inner bearing.jpg
     
  10. Feb 6, 2014 at 9:20 AM
    #10
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 25 years ASE Master Certified Technician

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    50 miles past BFE, 13th trailer park on the right.
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    1997 Tacoma
    3 inch mixed component lift. Front locker, rear e-locker, 33 inch tires, custom dual batteries, 140A alternator, custom paint, many other mods to come!
    Glad you found the problem. That photo looks like the outer axle bearing though. There really is no "inner" axle bearing. Unless you mean the inner half of a double roller ball bearing assembly?
     
  11. Feb 7, 2014 at 4:15 AM
    #11
    Chuckt

    Chuckt [OP] New Member

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    The rear axles are carried by 2 bearings an inner (at or in the differential housing) and the outer (at or on the brake plate). This is the inner bearing. I am stunned by the cuts and scrapes on the casting (forging?).
     
  12. Feb 7, 2014 at 7:14 AM
    #12
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 25 years ASE Master Certified Technician

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    50 miles past BFE, 13th trailer park on the right.
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    1997 Tacoma
    3 inch mixed component lift. Front locker, rear e-locker, 33 inch tires, custom dual batteries, 140A alternator, custom paint, many other mods to come!
    I took what you said and did some research. I did find that there is a bulletin on your problem, where Toyota has a newly designed rear axle bearing unit. The thing that confuses me with what I find, and what you said, is that according to parts listings, and the parts catalog diagram, there is only one hubbed bearing assembly for the rear axle, and that is the one at the wheel area, where the end of the diff housing is. The inside of the housing where the end of the axle shaft is splined to the carrier, the bearing there is on the carrier, and does not actually support the axle shaft itself. This is identical to the Tacoma design.

    As for the bulletin, the number is SB0151-10. I do not know if this link will work for you or not, since you are not a subscriber to my software, but let me know if it does work.

    SB0151-10
     
    ColoradoTJ likes this.
  13. Feb 7, 2014 at 5:00 PM
    #13
    Chuckt

    Chuckt [OP] New Member

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    Hmm well I'm going by what wife said the shop told her. It is possible that it was the outside (outboard end of the axle tube) bearing tho I doubt it. The casting in the picture, as bad as it was - scratches, gouges, heat stress marks and all, does not appear have been exposed to the kind of weathering that I would expect from the outboard end unless it was encapsulated by the axle tube and the brake plate. That doesn't seem possible because that would be physically huge. Suitable for a tank or some such.
    We did see the TSB about the upgrade but I don't have access to assebly drawings or cut-away pictures and your link did work but asked for an ID/password and I don't know one. So I'm going on what I know - had 2 different redone for other reasons on other vehicles - and what seems like logical deductions. How far off do you think I am?
     
  14. Feb 9, 2014 at 12:12 PM
    #14
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 25 years ASE Master Certified Technician

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    50 miles past BFE, 13th trailer park on the right.
    Vehicle:
    1997 Tacoma
    3 inch mixed component lift. Front locker, rear e-locker, 33 inch tires, custom dual batteries, 140A alternator, custom paint, many other mods to come!
    That caged bearing in the photo was definitely not from the inner area of the axle. I think perhaps they did not explain it well enough to you and your wife. Hopefully this image shows up. As you can see, that part labeled as #6 is the caged bearing assembly that you had in the photo, distinct by the 4 mounting bolt holes. This is located at the wheel end on the axle shaft. I THINK what they were saying to you was that the inner bearing of the caged piece is what failed, along with the probable need for a new axle shaft as well.

    [​IMG]
     
    ColoradoTJ likes this.
  15. Feb 12, 2014 at 7:23 AM
    #15
    Chuckt

    Chuckt [OP] New Member

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    Thank you that makes sence. I was reading more into what the shop told my wife than I should have.
    No they did not change the axle.
     
  16. Feb 12, 2014 at 8:59 AM
    #16
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 25 years ASE Master Certified Technician

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    50 miles past BFE, 13th trailer park on the right.
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    3 inch mixed component lift. Front locker, rear e-locker, 33 inch tires, custom dual batteries, 140A alternator, custom paint, many other mods to come!
    The bearing race looked like that and they DIDN'T change out the axle shaft? :facepalm:
     
  17. Feb 13, 2014 at 11:25 AM
    #17
    Chuckt

    Chuckt [OP] New Member

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    No. Unless the entire bearing spun why would they?
     
  18. Feb 14, 2014 at 4:43 PM
    #18
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 25 years ASE Master Certified Technician

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    3 inch mixed component lift. Front locker, rear e-locker, 33 inch tires, custom dual batteries, 140A alternator, custom paint, many other mods to come!
    USUALLY, of course not always, when the races gall like that the axle has a little extra movement, which can cause abnormal wear. Obviously I didn't take it apart, so perhaps it was caught early enough.
     
  19. Mar 8, 2015 at 12:23 PM
    #19
    Steve P

    Steve P New Member

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    I'm just at the very beginning of this rear end howling problem. We first heard this problem at around 70 000 km when on a smooth highway at around 105 kph. Took it to the dealer and they did the baffle service but never really helped. I was made to feel really stupid by the dealership because the noise wasn't really that prevalent at the time they took it for a road test and to be honest, I don't think they were really trying or even wanted to hear it!

    Now we're at 112 000 km on the truck, the noise is quite a bit louder and happens at more varying speeds. The same dealer is NOW realizing there is a problem and wants to replace the differential; how convenient! I guess it's just a matter of finding a good shop and disassembling the rear end until they find the problem?

    Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

    Steve
     
  20. May 10, 2016 at 10:17 AM
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    Pacecar

    Pacecar New Member

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    I am also experiencing a growling noise from the right rear wheel of my 08 Tundra that I can only describe as the sound you would get from a twin engine propeller aircraft when the engines are not in sync, but it's a higher pitch and not as loud. The truck now has 135K miles on it, and the noise has gotten progressively worse over the past year. Frankly, this Tundra has always been noisier than any of the other trucks I own since it was new. I always thought that the front axle made too much noise and offered excessive rolling resistance. The dealer service writer drove it and said it was normal. (I have since learned to question my dealer's judgement when it comes to warranty issues.) All of that being said, I love the truck and have not found any other vehicle that I would own in it's place and that includes the newer Tundras.
    Back to the rear end noise. My feeling was that it was the rear axle bearing, so having never taken one apart before, I ordered new bearing assemblies from RockAuto and tried to find as much info about the rear axle assembly as I could on-line. (which lead me to this forum) In fact, I did get the axle shaft out of the truck and found that the bearing was pressed onto the shaft and that I needed a hydraulic press and special tool to get the old one off and the new one on. So, not having that equipment, I put the thing back together. While I had the shaft out though, I inspected the bearing and found no sign of damage, no excessive play and the shaft turned freely. So unless a problem only shows up under load, I don't think the noise is coming from the bearing.
    Examination of the shaft revealed that there was a very slight rub mark where the shaft crosses the internal oil baffle. It left a mark, but did not abrade or cut the shaft itself. So it could be a baffle rub, but I am unclear how that could get worse over a period of time. I am hesitant to "enlarge" the baffle opening for fear of introducing metal shavings into the housing and making the hole too big.
    I am considering buying a new axle shaft, taking it to a local shop and have the bearing pressed on. Then replace the right side axle to see if that stops the noise. I figure that will give me a "spare" rear axle assembly to replace the left side if IT fails.
    All of the information that I've found on-line about this, leads me to believe that Toyota put out a bad batch of bearings and oil baffles and that they will not pay to fix them if you didn't bring it to them and specifically refer to the TSB before the warranty period ran out.
    I wanted to bring all of this up for discussion before I spent any more time and money. The dealer (you know, the one I don't trust) has quoted me the paltry sum of $1,600 to replace both rear bearings. But then, he quoted me $1,100 to replace the water pump. Half way though that project though, I was wondering if it would have been smarter to have taken him up on it!
     
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