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Re-geared to 4.10's on OE tires

Discussion in '1st Gen Tundras (2000-2006)' started by assassin10000, Dec 28, 2020.

  1. Dec 28, 2020 at 9:45 PM
    #1
    assassin10000

    assassin10000 [OP] New Member

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    Edit: thread title updated from: 4.10 or 4.30 re-gear on OE tires?

    Considering swapping gears. I currently have 30.5" (265/65r17) tires and no immediate plans to lift or go larger as mine is a 2wd truck (and I'm not in socal playing in the desert).

    I know the tow package came with 4.10's. Also both the DC and Sequoia have 4.10's readily available. Looking through part numbers I also see the v6 auto had 4.30 gears.

    In any case, anyone driven both the 3.92's & 4.10's back to back and compare how they perform?

    A little better around town performance and less engine load at 75-80mph is my goal.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
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  2. Dec 29, 2020 at 4:03 AM
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    Professional Hand Model

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    I’d recco doing the 12 Port Injectors first. It ‘feels’ like the engine shifts differently almost like there is more gear at slower speeds. The transmission holds the low gear longer. I’m guessing its low end torque that has improved that ‘feeling’. Cheap ($350) and easy compared to new gears and you can always do the new gears as well for even better ‘feels’.

    I’m at around 2250-2300 rpm at 75mph (in OD) on 3.92 Gears which is a super light engine load compared to some of the post re-gearing numbers I’ve seen from others.
     
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  3. Dec 29, 2020 at 4:05 AM
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    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    Those numbers are on bigger tires 285/75/r16.
     
  4. Dec 29, 2020 at 7:10 AM
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    Darkness

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    I haven't knowingly driven 4.30s or 4.10s. I went from 3.91 to 4.56 and would do it again in a heartbeat. I don't know that you would feel a difference worth the trouble on 4.10, given the choices I would go 4.30.
     
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  5. Dec 29, 2020 at 9:55 AM
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    lsaami

    lsaami Let ‘er buck

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    I have yet to see one of these trucks with a V8 and 4.10s. they pretty much all came with 3.91s, or 3.92 in the case of 2WD. After rehearing to 4.56, I don't think 4.10 would change enough to make it worth the extra time and money, especially not if running stock size tires.
     
  6. Dec 29, 2020 at 11:02 AM
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    2006Tundra

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    I have a 2wd with the tow package and before I re-geared I had 3.91's w/ LSD on 265/65r17 and the truck worked great. I re-geared with 4.88's when I went to 34's and started towing. In my opinion, I wouldn't waste my money re-gearing until you size up on tires 33+.
     
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  7. Dec 29, 2020 at 11:29 AM
    #7
    assassin10000

    assassin10000 [OP] New Member

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    This is where being able to do gears saves me a TON of cash. Even cheaper though, I can get a 3rd member from a Sequoia or Tundra for about $100 from the local junkyard. So just add fluids and gasket and I should be under $200 to swap.

    Even better is finding one with an LSD. I missed an 02 1st gen with LSD in mid- October, it was crushed before I could get to it.

    IIRC don't you have 33's? I would go 4.56 as well if so. Just like I went 4.88's on my Tacoma and 35's.

    My truck was built with 245/70r16 (29") but was 'upgraded' to 265/65r17 at the dealer (30.5").


    There's an 04 DC at the junkyard with 4.10's & V8 not too far from me. Looks like it has LSD too.

    Also don't forget I have the 5sp trans, which will also make a difference. Mechanical advantage of a shorter gearset through ALL the gears is why changing a 'final drive' is a common performance upgrade.

    Applied engine torque is multiplied by the gearing. Like the difference between using a ratchet vs a breaker bar on hard to remove bolts.

    Overall ratio calculation

    A750
    3.520 x 3.92 = 13.79
    2.042 x 3.92 = 8.00
    1.400 x 3.92 = 5.48
    1.000 x 3.92 = 3.92
    .716 x 3.92 = 2.80

    3.520 x 4.10 = 14.43
    2.042 x 4.10 = 8.37
    1.400 x 4.10 = 5.74
    1.000 x 4.10 = 4.10
    .716 x 4.10 = 2.93

    3.520 x 4.30 = 15.13
    2.042 x 4.30 = 8.78
    1.400 x 4.30 = 6.02
    1.000 x 4.30 = 4.30
    .716 x 4.30 = 3.07

    A340
    2.804 x 3.92 = 10.99
    1.531 x 3.92 = 6.00
    1.000 x 3.92 = 3.92
    .705 x 3.92 = 2.76

    2.804 x 4.10 = 11.49
    1.531 x 4.10 = 6.27
    1.000 x 4.10 = 4.10
    .705 x 4.10 = 2.89

    2.804 x 4.30 = 12.05
    1.531 x 4.30 = 6.58
    1.000 x 4.30 = 4.30
    .705 x 4.30 = 3.03

    2.804 x 4.56 = 12.78
    1.531 x 4.56 = 6.98
    1.000 x 4.56 = 4.56
    .705 x 4.56 = 3.21


    I am running stock size tires (or at least the larger of the 2 stock sizes). Which is the only reason I'm considering 4.10's. ;)


    I'd be in agreement if I had to pay someone else to do it. But I don't, so for me the option is on the table still.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2020
  8. Dec 29, 2020 at 11:46 AM
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    Darkness

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    Yes, I run 33s. My truck came with 265/70/16 and 3.91 (or maybe its 3.92). I have an SR5 rwd, it came with the tow package.

    I initially wanted 4.30 but at the time they were hard to come by used and new were too expensive. I didn't have time to wait because my carrier was broken, so I went 4.56 and don't regret it.

    To your case however, I agree 4.56 is too aggressive. On paper 4.30 is the closest match to stock ratio for 33s, 4.56 is one step beyond. Knowing how that went for myself, I would go one step beyond for the tires you have as well. I don't think 4.10 would give enough of a difference for the work, even if you buy cheap and install yourself. Worst case if you source one for $100 and don't like it, you can always sell it to get your money back. Really depends how much oomph you are after.
     
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  9. Dec 29, 2020 at 1:42 PM
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    des2mtn

    des2mtn Touring the gas stations of CA/AZ via dirt trails

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    My truck is a 4WD V8, 4.10's with LSD. The 2004 DC's had 4.10s, 05-06 DCs and most other ACs have 3.91s I believe.

    I don't have any experience with other ratios, but the truck was a blast on 265/65/r17s (I believe that was it previously had on) when it was my daily driver. I did notice the truck loose some oomph when I went to 285/75/r16. Re-gear is down the line though with lockers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
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  10. Dec 29, 2020 at 4:01 PM
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    Professional Hand Model

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    If you can get the 4.3 Gears you should do it. It will be an improvement on stock tires. I know I would at that $100-200 price. The 2WD seems plug and plug for a gear swap and looks like a no brainer. Do it!
     
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  11. Dec 29, 2020 at 4:38 PM
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    assassin10000

    assassin10000 [OP] New Member

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    Hmmm.

    But 4.10's potentially will have an LSD. 4.30's will still be 1 tire fire


    Gah! Indecision sucks
     
  12. Dec 29, 2020 at 4:55 PM
    #12
    Professional Hand Model

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    I think you’ll be surprised with the 12 Port Injectors. Might give you that little extra torque change you are wanting with less work.
     
  13. Jan 8, 2021 at 7:26 PM
    #13
    assassin10000

    assassin10000 [OP] New Member

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    So going back over things and doing some math before spending any time at the yard (or money for that matter).

    Original tires: 245/70r16 = 29.5"
    Dealer/installed: 265/65r17 = 30.58"

    3.92 & 245/70r16
    65 @ 2150
    70 @ 2325
    75 @ 2475
    80 @ 2650

    4.10 & 245/70r16
    65 @ 2250
    70 @ 2425
    75 @ 2600
    80 @ 2775

    4.30 & 245/70r16
    65 @ 2350
    70 @ 2550
    75 @ 2725
    80 @ 2900


    3.92 & 265/65r17
    65 @ 2075
    70 @ 2250
    75 @ 2400
    80 @ 2550

    4.10 & 265/65r17
    65 @ 2175
    70 @ 2350
    75 @ 2500
    80 @ 2675

    4.30 & 265/65r17
    65 @ 2275
    70 @ 2450
    75 @ 2625
    80 @ 2800

    4.56 & 285/70r17
    65 @ 2275
    70 @ 2450
    75 @ 2625
    80 @ 2800

    Gear ratio & tire size
    MPH & RPM

    Original setup
    3.92 & 245/70r16
    65 @ 2150
    70 @ 2325
    75 @ 2475
    80 @ 2650

    Current setup
    3.92 & 265/65r17
    65 @ 2075
    70 @ 2250
    75 @ 2400
    80 @ 2550

    If I go to 4.10's it's ever so slightly better. Better in this case being slightly lower geared, which translates into slightly higher engine rpm.

    4.10 & 265/65r17
    65 @ 2175
    70 @ 2350
    75 @ 2500
    80 @ 2675

    4.30 & 265/65r17 (or 4.56 & 285/70r17)
    65 @ 2275
    70 @ 2450
    75 @ 2625
    80 @ 2800

    I'm leaning towards the 4.10's. As I'm not dealing with the extra weight of 33's.

    I may do some testing with my OBD2 adapter and torque pro to see what the engine runs like at different RPM's. MAF g/s, Load % and RPM I'm thinking are what I should check with O/D off (4th gear).

    It won't be an exact apples to apples comparison, as I won't be able to have the exact same load/wind resistance. I'm hoping it may help show me what RPM's the engine is happy at.

    _______________________________________


    Also worth considering is the transmission it'll be used with.

    Overall ratio calculation

    A750
    3.520 x 3.92 = 13.79
    2.042 x 3.92 = 8.00
    1.400 x 3.92 = 5.48
    1.000 x 3.92 = 3.92
    .716 x 3.92 = 2.80

    3.520 x 4.10 = 14.43
    2.042 x 4.10 = 8.37
    1.400 x 4.10 = 5.74
    1.000 x 4.10 = 4.10
    .716 x 4.10 = 2.93

    3.520 x 4.30 = 15.13
    2.042 x 4.30 = 8.78
    1.400 x 4.30 = 6.02
    1.000 x 4.30 = 4.30
    .716 x 4.30 = 3.07

    A340
    2.804 x 3.92 = 10.99
    1.531 x 3.92 = 6.00
    1.000 x 3.92 = 3.92
    .705 x 3.92 = 2.76

    2.804 x 4.10 = 11.49
    1.531 x 4.10 = 6.27
    1.000 x 4.10 = 4.10
    .705 x 4.10 = 2.89

    2.804 x 4.30 = 12.05
    1.531 x 4.30 = 6.58
    1.000 x 4.30 = 4.30
    .705 x 4.30 = 3.03

    2.804 x 4.56 = 12.78
    1.531 x 4.56 = 6.98
    1.000 x 4.56 = 4.56
    .705 x 4.56 = 3.21

    A750
    1st 3.520 x 3.92 = 13.79
    2nd 2.042 x 3.92 = 8.00
    3rd 1.400 x 3.92 = 5.48
    5th .716 x 3.92 = 2.80

    A340
    1st 2.804 x 3.92 = 10.99
    2nd 1.531 x 3.92 = 6.00
    4th .705 x 3.92 = 2.76

    There is a fairly big advantage in gearing 1-3 vs 1-2 on the 5 speed trans, with a very slight O/D difference where the 4 speed has a hair lower freeway RPM's.
    (Note: this is not reflected in the above RPM calculations, as I only ran #'s for the 5 speed O/D ratio of .716)

    So for lifts/tires the 5 speed is a definite plus in getting the larger and heavier tires moving. Not applicable to me but food for thought for others.


    As mentioned earlier, after doing the above RPM calc's I'm leaning towards 4.10's.

    A750
    1st 3.520 x 4.10 = 14.43
    2nd 2.042 x 4.10 = 8.37
    3rd 1.400 x 4.10 = 5.74


    When I look at the gearing of the 5 speed and 4.10's vs 4.30's I almost want to go 4.30's, as 3rd gear is almost identical to the 4 speeds 2nd with 3.92's.

    3rd 1.400 x 4.30 = 6.02
    2nd 1.531 x 3.92 = 6.00
     
  14. Jan 8, 2021 at 7:52 PM
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    Lil Steve

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    When I had my van's 3:55's swapped to 4:10's, I considered 3:73's but the customer service rep talked me into 4:10's. She said the 3:55 to 3:73 swap wouldn't be enough of a difference since my main objective was to improve the towing ability. She was right, the van tows so much better now. Now that I have a Tundra that tows even better than my van, I'm considering 4:30's in lieu of my stock 3:91's instead of 4:10's. The only reason it's even on my radar is because I thought I could benefit from installing a LSD in my Tundra. And if I'm going in there, I may as well..... you know how it goes. Sometimes I just can't leave well enough alone.
     
  15. Jan 8, 2021 at 8:04 PM
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    assassin10000

    assassin10000 [OP] New Member

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    Kinda where I'm at. I actually mostly want an LSD. The one time I wanted to pull onto a main road and get up to speed, there was a bit too much 'one tire fire'.

    I figure if I can source an LSD may as well do gears too. If I'm doing gears, may as well get what I want and lead me into this rabbit hole of thought.

    The thing is, 4.10's are way easier to find with an LSD. 4.30's are rare and probably mostly without.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
  16. Jan 8, 2021 at 9:01 PM
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    Lil Steve

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    I'll probably just have to keep saving up and buy an aftermarket LSD then decide what ratio to go with.
     
  17. Jan 9, 2021 at 11:16 PM
    #17
    assassin10000

    assassin10000 [OP] New Member

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    Did some freeway testing in 4th the other night to see what the airflow and load numbers looked like at higher rpms.

    G/s MAF / Load % and est. MPG.
    The last "x#" is how many readings I averaged.

    2800rpm 63mph 4th
    41.0/31.3 15.5 x4

    2600rpm 58mph 4th
    35.0/28.6 17.0 x5

    2500rpm 56mph 4th
    31.2/27.0 17.2 avg x25

    2400rpm 54mph 4th
    29.4/26.0 18.7 x8

    2200rpm 50-52mph 4th
    25.2/23.8 20.1 x5

    Also did 5th gear, 75mph+ numbers just get worse fairly quickly.

    2400rpm 75mph 5th
    52.2/46.8 14.6 x4

    2250rpm 70mph 5th
    42.1/40.4 16.8 avg x3

    2150rpm 67mph 5th
    36.8/37.0 18.3 x3

    2000rpm 64mph 5th
    34.9/36.4 18.6 x9

    RPM | MPH | Gear
    G/S | Load % | Est. MPG (incorrect?)

    2800rpm 63mph 4th
    41.0/31.3 15.5 avg x4
    44.1/33.3 14.4
    41.6/32.2 15.3
    39.5/29.8 16.0
    38.8/29.8 16.2

    2600rpm 58mph 4th
    35.0/28.6 17.0 avg x5
    35.7/29.0 16.6
    35.8/29.0 16.7
    32.2/25.9 18.4
    33.3/27.5 18.0
    38.2/31.4 15.5

    2500rpm 56mph 4th
    31.2/27.0 17.2 avg x25
    32.9/27.8 17.4
    33.4/28.2 16.9
    33.5/28.2 16.9
    32.4/27.8 17.5
    30.0/25.5 19.1
    30.9/25.9 18.3
    30.3/25.5 18.9
    32.5/27.8 17.4
    31.9/27.1 17.9
    31.5/26.3 18.0
    31.9/27.1 17.7
    32.1/27.1 17.6
    36.6/31.4 15.5
    34.5/29.4 16.4
    34.3/29.0 16.5
    32.8/27.8 17.3
    32.0/26.7 17.7
    35.0/29.8 16.3
    34.4/29.4 16.5
    34.3/29.4 16.5
    34.6/29.0 16.4
    34.6/29.0 16.6
    34.3/28.6 16.7
    33.5/28.6 16.7
    34.7/29.4 16.3

    2400rpm 54mph 4th
    29.4/26.0 18.7 avg x8
    29.5/25.9 18.8
    29.0/25.9 19.1
    30.8/27.5 17.6
    30.3/26.7 17.9
    29.0/25.1 19.3
    26.5/23.1 20.4
    29.9/26.7 18.1
    29.9/26.7 18.1

    2200rpm 50-52mph 4th
    25.2/23.8 20.1 avg x5
    26.5/23.9 19.4
    25.2/23.9 19.9
    25.0/23.9 20.1
    27.1/25.9 18.5
    22.2/21.2 22.6


    2500rpm 78-80mph 5th
    66.4/56.9 11.9

    2400rpm 75mph 5th
    52.2/46.8 14.6 avg x4
    50.7/45.5 14.8
    52.0/46.3 14.6
    54.6/49.0 13.8
    51.6/46.3 15.0

    2250rpm 70mph 5th
    42.1/40.4 16.8 avg x3
    42.1/39.6 16.8
    41.0/40.0 17.1
    43.2/41.6 16.5

    2150rpm 67mph 5th
    36.8/37.0 18.3 avg x3
    37.5/37.3 18.0
    37.5/38.0 18.0
    35.8/35.7 18.9

    2000rpm 64mph 5th
    34.9/36.4 18.6 avg x9
    32.1/33.3 20.2
    36.1/38.0 18.0
    34.5/35.7 18.8
    35.7/36.9 18.2
    35.6/36.9 18.1
    33.9/35.3 19.0
    35.9/38.4 17.9
    35.6/36.5 18.3
    34.9/36.9 18.8

    1900rpm 60mph 5th
    27.2/30.2 22.0
    27.2/30.6 22.0
    30.4/34.9 19.5
    28.6/32.2 20.9

    Overall looks like once you hit around 2500 or so rpms there is diminishing fuel savings to be had. At least on my 05 VVT-i 4.7L.

    2150rpms in 5th est. mpg was closer than I expected. I actually got 18.4mpg when I hand calculated freeway only mileage from pump to pump.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
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  18. Jan 10, 2021 at 4:37 PM
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    assassin10000

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    Remote start alarm Removed keyless entry piezo Qi phone charger & dash mount Subaru underseat subwoofer Hopkins Easylift Steering wheel audio controls No-tenna mod 3/4 adhesive anti-rattle shim D/S door
    Picked up a 3rd member with OEM LSD and 4.10's from an '04 DC.

    IMG_20201226_142154.jpg


    I'll probably clean it up and do a pattern check. I'm considering doing a solid pinion spacer too.


    If I understand correctly, I'll have to swap my 2wd pinion flange on as the 4wd driveshaft pattern is different.
     
  19. Mar 20, 2021 at 11:49 PM
    #19
    assassin10000

    assassin10000 [OP] New Member

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    Andrew
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    '05 SR5 AC 2wd
    Remote start alarm Removed keyless entry piezo Qi phone charger & dash mount Subaru underseat subwoofer Hopkins Easylift Steering wheel audio controls No-tenna mod 3/4 adhesive anti-rattle shim D/S door
    Done. Also did a solid pinion spacer and new pinion seal, since the flange had to be swapped.

    IMG_20210320_121138.jpg


    Engine is less stressed on acceleration for normal driving and has a bit more get up and go. As expected of lower gearing.
     
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  20. Mar 22, 2021 at 6:38 PM
    #20
    shoe07

    shoe07 New Member

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    Nice work!
     
  21. Mar 22, 2021 at 9:52 PM
    #21
    assassin10000

    assassin10000 [OP] New Member

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    Remote start alarm Removed keyless entry piezo Qi phone charger & dash mount Subaru underseat subwoofer Hopkins Easylift Steering wheel audio controls No-tenna mod 3/4 adhesive anti-rattle shim D/S door
    Thanks.


    So I did a TRD air accelerator (velocity stack) mod for my airbox and a tonnuea cover, prior to swapping gears. So I did some estimated mpg tests before re-gearing and earlier today did an after test.

    Before with 3.91's
    2075rpm 65mph 5th
    34.6/35.4 19.1 x30

    After with 4.10's
    2150rpm 65mph 5th
    33.8/33.3 19.4 x50

    Key:
    G/s MAF / Load % and est. MPG. "x#" is how many readings I took to average.

    The estimated mpg is fairly close to my real world hand calculated results. Last mostly freeway trip was:
    249mi / 13.1gal = 19.0mpg (@ 65mph)
     
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  22. Mar 23, 2021 at 4:01 AM
    #22
    shoe07

    shoe07 New Member

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    Giving me 05 and newer jealousy. My best tank is 15.9MPG 303 miles all highway around 70 mph
     
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  23. Mar 23, 2021 at 4:10 AM
    #23
    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    All highway on my 2002 at 70mph is 18.5MPG

    City is what sucks 10(winter) and 12(summer).
     
  24. Mar 23, 2021 at 5:21 AM
    #24
    shoe07

    shoe07 New Member

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    I wonder if it is a difference of double cab v access and gearing?
     
  25. Mar 23, 2021 at 4:31 PM
    #25
    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    City short trips are bad regardless of gearing. Took me a month to go through a full tank with everyday driving. :rofl:
     
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  26. Mar 23, 2021 at 5:42 PM
    #26
    assassin10000

    assassin10000 [OP] New Member

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    '05 SR5 AC 2wd
    Remote start alarm Removed keyless entry piezo Qi phone charger & dash mount Subaru underseat subwoofer Hopkins Easylift Steering wheel audio controls No-tenna mod 3/4 adhesive anti-rattle shim D/S door
    DC's are a bit taller and heavier. The '04 DC had 4.10's to offset it a bit iirc. Same gearing as the Sequoia's.
     
  27. Apr 4, 2021 at 8:56 PM
    #27
    assassin10000

    assassin10000 [OP] New Member

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    '05 SR5 AC 2wd
    Remote start alarm Removed keyless entry piezo Qi phone charger & dash mount Subaru underseat subwoofer Hopkins Easylift Steering wheel audio controls No-tenna mod 3/4 adhesive anti-rattle shim D/S door
    Small update. The better low end acceleration (applied torque) has definitely helped around town city driving as my avg mpg has gone up.

    (Hwy/city %)

    Mileage w/3.91:
    279mi/18.3gal=15.3mpg (60/40 @65mph)

    Mileage w/4.10 (& tonneua cover):
    367mi/20.8gal=17.6mpg (60/40@70mph)
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
    speedtre, Darkness, Voss and 2 others like this.
  28. Apr 4, 2021 at 10:32 PM
    #28
    Voss

    Voss New Member

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    Thats a great improvement. Nice work!
     
  29. Apr 4, 2021 at 10:44 PM
    #29
    empty_lord

    empty_lord They see me rollin'

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    custom body work, Billies with taco ARB springs, Icon AAL, TRD FJ trail team wheels, 2019 Toyota 86 radio, Blacked out interior, Added factory power everything, heater mirrors, ETC
    so your saying i should go up to 4.10s huh

    but im thinking of 255/80r17 tires.. soo maybe 4.30s
     
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  30. Apr 5, 2021 at 12:36 AM
    #30
    assassin10000

    assassin10000 [OP] New Member

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    '05 SR5 AC 2wd
    Remote start alarm Removed keyless entry piezo Qi phone charger & dash mount Subaru underseat subwoofer Hopkins Easylift Steering wheel audio controls No-tenna mod 3/4 adhesive anti-rattle shim D/S door
    FYI about .5 mpg improvement is from the tonneau cover. At freeway speeds anyways.

    Updated my post to reflect this.
     
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