Ram Sales UP! Tundra Down :(

Totally agree. I drove a Ram last week and turning a knob to put it in gear isn't something I could get used to. Maybe if it was a Prius.

 

Hate to say it...Ram power wagon is a beast. Easily the most versatile and off-road capable rig available off the lot. Raptor is cool for high speed whoop smashing and slithering all over the sandy wilderness. The power wagon is something else with a 6.4 hemi, looks good, goes fast enough and
Extremely capable. Just can’t trust the damn thing to make it past a dealership without a recall...

 

I just got home from a 900 mile camping trip. Along the way I saw 3 new dodge trucks broken down on the side of the highway. 4 more new Dodge trucks on the back of flat beds. 2 Chevys being towed. I saw a bunch of 1st gen tundras cruising along just fine.

In 1988 I bought an '84 toyota 4x4, the thing was an awesome workhorse, drove it all over remote baja without a hitch. I sold it in '95 for more than I paid for it.
I replaced it with a '95 F150 that was awesome except that the interior fell apart after 3 years, door locks and windows stopped working, etc.
I replaced that with a 1999 dodge ram 2500 that I bought brand new, I was at the dealership every other month until I sold the POS in 2001 and bought my first Tundy, used.
I won't buy a chevy because my dad had one with I can't remember how many rebuilt engines and other issues.

My 2000 tundra never let me down in 17 years. 98% of the "cheap plastic parts" are still in-tact ( my buddy owns it now.), and so far my 2014 tundra is going strong.

That is why I am a Toyota truck fanboy.

 

haha.... a friend of mine on facebook bought a new ram truck. he has owned it for 2 weeks and it has been in the shop twice now.




in the shop on the first week with 155 miles. the check engine light is on.


in the shop on the second week with 551 miles. the check engine light is on.


haha... yeah, but Chrysler is owned by Fiat. and his truck was probably built at the mexico plant.

 

There are 2 things that people talk about all the time when comparing Tundras to the big 3 and that is gas mileage and discounts off MSRP. The big 3 like to jack their MSRPs way up so they can offer 25% discounts and make people feel good. At the end of the day all that matters is the OTD price before TTL and dealer adds including the sometimes ridiculous dealer fees. As far as MPGs go I think a lot of people look at the EPA numbers and assume the others are better. From my experience both the Tacoma and the Tundra perform in real life a lot closer to the posted numbers. Everyone I knows that owns the 5.0 Ford gets the same or worse than I do. I won't bring the ECO BOOST in to discussion because you can certainly get low 20s if you keep the turbos from spooling. Heck I can get close to that to if I run 60-65. Yes the GMs do better but who wants to drive on the hwy for 4 live and 4 dead cylinders and live with the AFM problems. I drove Fords for 30 and yes I had some good ones but when I had a bad one it offset all the good ones.

 

Gotta disagree with this. While my truck was in the shop after being rear ended I had a 2018 F150 loaner with 5.0L and easily got 20+ including a trip to Shreveport where i got 21-22. That 10-speed was money when cruising at highway speeds.

Truck that was rear ended was a ‘15 eco boost 2WD. Before I put a level kit and 33” E-rated tires I could do 25MPG all highway. After the tires all highway around 19-20. mixed city/Hwy driving was around 16-17 average tank.

 

I rented a 2016 F150 with the Eco-bust for a while and I rarely got better than 14mpg, that thing stayed in the turbo. Great power but you really had to milk it to get decent mpg. I get 15-16avg mpg with my same driving habits from my 2010 CM 5.7 with the supercharger.

 

Demand goes down over time for old technology and spikes for redesigns. The truck segment is where the fattest per vehicle profit is, which is why it’s now super competitive and you have 3-4 year visual redesign cycles and 6-8 year ground up Redesign cycles for vehicles that used to not change for a decade.

Toyota doesn’t like trying new things. I think it may partly be a cultural issue. Reluctant to toss out tried and true stuff that works every 5 years. I believe I once read they initially told dealers in the 90s the Gen1 Tundra was going to have an updated version of the T100’s V6 as the only motor. The 4.7 only happened because the dealers told them not to bother at all if there was no V8 option. If the Dealers don’t tell them that the Gen1 Tundra only has the T100 V6 and probably flops.

 

I can find a leftover 2018 2500 cummins 4x4 4 door long bed without all the crazy technology for under $40k right now which is pretty impressive for a diesel these days (sadly). You might get some trucks (no matter the brand) that have a couple issues right away, but in the end I'm a firm believer in proper maintenance to make any vehicle last.

 

With all that technology, you would think those bastards could keep their shit in their own lanes.....oh, that's right, they are going through apps to change the climate control because they don't have a fucking knob to turn!

 

Owned by FIAT.

 

Ram something or Dodge something.. LOL

 

Just made a 5-state trek from Portland to Wyoming. Saw TONS of trucks. The only one I remember seeing broken down was a d-d-d-mopar.

 

I saw a new Power Wagon the other day and really liked the stock/stance. But then I kept thinking Caravan reliability, nope. It's like a hot hooker, end up with an STD.

 

until you need to put some stuff in the bed.

My buddy has a RAM Laramie with the RAM Box and he had to ask me to help him haul the big stuff with my truck. when moving into their new home.

 

I guess my question is this. If the big 3 make such horrible trucks, how do they maintain such successful sales #'? I get the discounts off MSRP, but eventually people will buy something else. So far that's not happening. Ford continues to sell the F150 in ridiculous numbers. I just don't see how they can maintain this level of success by making horrible vehicles. You might fool someone once, but a person isn't going to to keep buying Ford if they have issues over and over.

 

fleet sales and brand loyalty

 

Fleet sales for sure. I noticed Hertz has a shit ton of Ram trucks now.

 

You never see a tundra for rent

 

I hope Tundra sales plummet further to help me get a lower price on my new purchase.

 

The only reason they updated the Camry and Siennas with Apple Carplay was due to the loss in rental sales.

 

People have always and will always be fooled by a good gimmick. The big three know this and that is why they keep making model changes with updated gimmicks year after year. The loyal fools keep telling themselves "this next one is going to be soooo much better. the commercial says so."

 

I think the secret is they don't make horrible trucks. Some have a couple of initial issues and once they're fixed, they're good to go until trade-in time. Many people drive the big three essentially trouble free for several years and then the second or third owner finds out they're not going to make 150K without a cash infusion. But some brands seem to have the best of both worlds, high initial quality as well as high long term reliability, Toyota being one. Their Kaizen process seems to have helped with that.

I've personally seen quite a few warranty issues with the big three. Dodge in particular. So far I have been left by the road, in no particular order by: Chevy, Ford, Dodge, BMW, Volvo and Datsun. Oh, and Mazda. We've had 3 Toyota's and have not added them to the list. Another dynamic is the indifference of some dealer's when confronted with a warranty issue. I have had good success with BMW, Volvo and Toyota dealers in Kansas City, Mo. Unfortunately at the time I lived and had purchased the vehicles in Springfield, MO. My current Toyota dealer seems interested in keeping me in Toyota's.

So, as others have said, brand loyalty, never foreign(whatever that means now) as well as fleet sales and you have a healthy domestic truck market.

And the last dynamic is luck. I maintain my vehicles very well, drive them sensibly. Proactively doing all I can to keep from having a failure. And I've had my share of failures. I have a friend that doesn't know anything about cars beyond where to put the gas in. The man has no detectable mechanical ability. He currently has a 2005 Ford Escape. He has put brakes, an alternator and tires on his Escape, and has almost 300k on it.

 

Must be a Seattle area or west-side thing then because I live on the Eastern side of Washington and they are extremely uncommon. I used to work with a young redneck gal that bought a new white Tundra when I bought my Ram. She lifted it, added 35's, and lots of accessories. I got promoted to a different department and lost touch with her. Saw her a couple of weeks ago and she is now in a new bright red F150 modded to what the Tundra was. Her and my dad's neighbor are the only two people I know that owned Tundras, and pretty sure the neighbor now has a GMC pickup.

Now, Tacomas and 4Runners are super common here. I nearly bought a new 4Runner rather than my Ram 1500, but the prices on Rams are so tempting.

When I shopped for a new vehicle in 2014, I needed 4x4, 4-passenger capacity, ability to tow a smaller camp trailer, and as close to $30k as possible.

In my area, used pickups are insanely overpriced. A decent used pickup with under 100k miles is around $25k in a half-ton 4x4 with nicer trim package. Diesels run another $10k more.

So, I shopped new half-ton 4dr pickups, and the 4Runner.

My Ram had a window sticker of $37k, the F150 I looked at was $42k, the Tundra was $41k, Chevy was $44k, and the 4Runner was $36k.

The Ford, Chevy, and Toyota dealers offered good financing at maybe $1500 to $2000 off MSRP.

Ram gave huge discounts and I got it for $29k. When I traded it in a year ago with 52k miles on it, I got $20k. Not a single issue with it.

 

My girlfriend's brother-in-law is a Ford fanatic. Won't look at anything else. I was chatting with him during a 4th of July picnic and he was looking at getting his daughter her first vehicle and was looking at a Ford Edge and a Ford Escape.

My work vehicle is a 2016 Ford Escape and it is the biggest POS I have ever encountered. Seriously. Everything about it sucks. The interior is falling apart, it had a mystery issue that would cause it to shut off in traffic and in the middle of an intersection, usually. The AWD system is awful and I've gotten stuck twice in 6" of snow. And when you do get stuck, there are literally no tow points. The entire front undercarriage is covered in a plastic skid plate. The rear has no tow hooks, so I had to wrap a tow strap around the suspension components to yank it out. The motor is buzzy with considerable turbo lag and now sounds like the lifters are shot. The HVAC system takes forever to defrost the windows and warm the vehicle. Takes about a half hour of it running before the windows are clear in the winter. The controls are all confusing and counter-intuitive.

I seriously hate that vehicle, lol. But, it only has 17k miles so I'm stuck with it for a while.

I told all this to the brother-in-law and what does he do? Buys his daughter a used Escape.

 

Lots of them around PDX area. I see 10-20 easily a day driving from Vancouver to around Portland. I dunno I try to pay attention to other trucks too but it's not like a 10-to-1 ratio on f150 to tundra. Honestly I see more ram and Chevy's.

 

I had a 1999 F150 and 2007 Edge. Loved both. No issues. Driving a Ford is not a death sentence.

 

I wouldn't buy an Edge for the fact that nearly every other week my mechanic has one sitting in his lot waiting for a new transmission.

I kind of get it, I drove nothing but Dodge and Jeep for 20 years. I spent a ton of money in repairs, nothing major usually but probably an average of about $75/month.

I assumed that was normal. Everybody else in the family drove Big 3 vehicles also and it was similar with all of them. Then I took a chance on a high mileage Tundra and I've had 3 repairs in 2 years and the AC still works which was pretty much guaranteed not too in any of my other vehicles over 100k.

 

Big 3 is a lottery, sometimes you luck out with no problems, sometimes it’s a bag of poopoo. Toyota proportionately has fewer issues period. Reliability might not be at the top of everyone’s list, but it’s a damn good feeling.

 

Another factor is resale value. Toyotas are legendary in that regard.

In 1992, I got out of the Navy and bought a new Toyota 4x4 pickup. Regular cab, 4cyl with the chrome appearance package. Was $12,500.
Drove it for a year or so and then traded it in for an extra cab Ranger. Paid me what I owed on it. Ranger was more comfortable and rode nicer, but didn't keep it long enough to see how reliable it was.