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Proper rear bearing setup???

Discussion in '1st Gen Tundras (2000-2006)' started by Slp82, May 21, 2019.

  1. May 21, 2019 at 12:55 PM
    #1
    Slp82

    Slp82 [OP] New Member

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    2014 Tundra 4x4 5.7L DC; Bilstein 6112s @ 1.9"; 35x12.50 Nitto Ridge Grapplers on 20x9 wheels with +25 backspacing; DV8 front & rear bumpers, Engo 12k winch (SOLD) 2005 Tundra RC 4.7 4x4 w/3" spacer, addicted offroad tube winch bumper w/9k Engo, homemade sliders, skid row skid plate, 285/75r16 Cooper AT3, Detroit trutrac in rear.
    Well, so about 24000 miles ago, I had a mechanic buddy who does very good work, replace my rear bearings in my 2005 Tundra. We jacked it up and put it in drive and you could clearly hear with a mechanics stethoscope that it was the outer bearings next to the wheel, especially the passenger side was very bad. The driver side had a little noise but significantly quieter than the passenger side, but he recommended swapping both out, so thats what was done.

    I ordered the Beck Arnley 051-4272 Wheel Bearing Kit on April 10, 2017. It had high reviews on Amazon as you can see in the link and came with the full kit so seemed like a good deal. Whats interesting is my mechanic buddy told me he recommended leaving the inner liner/cover off the bearing because he said he has seen them fail many times with that cover/liner in place because they can not get the proper lubrication from the diff oil. So him having always done great work in the past, I took his word for it. The bearings worked great for about 20 months (20k miles).

    So about a year later, I broke a spider gear while getting a little to "happy" on the throttle with my 33" tires on some high traction concrete (4.7 V8 + 33" tires + full throttle = bad things). So I drove it home about 50 miles with the rear end clunking as I turned around corners. I was very easy on the throttle on the way home. Contacted East Coast Gear Supply and told them what happened and they said our rear ends are almost bullet proof, if it wasn't for those "weak link" spider gears. He then said if you replace them with something like a Detroit truetrac, its bullet proof. I said "sold". So they built me a all new rear end with a Detroit truetrac. I had a different mechanic (again who I trust) clean out the axle housing with about a entire case of brake cleaner, fishing pole with a magnet hooked on the tip, and I had him install a magnetic drain plug with one of those strong rare earth magnets (not the cheap weak ones).

    Well fast forward another year, and now I have a swirling noise coming from the rear. We jacked up the rear and put it in drive and got it up to 40 mph and used a mechanics stethoscope and it sounds like the noise is loudest on the drive side rear axle. I personally feel like because the 1st mechanic didn't put those liners/covers on the inside of the bearing, that when the spider gears broke, and I drove 50 miles home, that metal debris probably made their way into the bearings, despite us cleaning it very well later.

    So now I am planning to replace the rear bearings again, but I wanted to know if any of you have ever heard of the liner/cover needing to be left off of a bearing so it gets proper lubrication? Also I am curious on yalls opinion of going with Timken bearings this time, or is Beck Arnley just as good? If I get the Timken, it doesn't come with a kit like that Beck Arnley does in that package. Also I noticed on Rock Auto (here is the link), that some rear bearings say "sealed". Are some sealed and some not? I just want to make sure I use the best this time because I definitely don't want to have to replace these again in 24,000 miles.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  2. May 21, 2019 at 3:08 PM
    #2
    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    I’ve had this ‘swirling noise’ for many years between 35mph and up. Sounds like its from the rear and has a random soothing swirl that speeds up and slows down even while maintaining exact speeds at duration. Sometimes it sounds like the sound oscillates side to side in the rear as if in stereo effect.

    Per your needed recco on bearings, I’ve heard National (read your other post where you don’t like?), Koyo, Spicer, etc. are some brands off the top of my head from past research.

    2002 models from Toy run about $58 a bearing.

    I am very interested in what you find out as a cure as this swirling sound is the last thing I need to fix on my truck. I’ve always assumed its the OEM 17 year old bearings, but am not sure. The sound has been the same volume for years and hasn’t worsened. Axles are not hot after driving. Nothing ‘grinds’ when hand turning the wheels. No looseness. Truck drives great.
     
  3. May 21, 2019 at 4:34 PM
    #3
    Slp82

    Slp82 [OP] New Member

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    2014 Tundra 4x4 5.7L DC; Bilstein 6112s @ 1.9"; 35x12.50 Nitto Ridge Grapplers on 20x9 wheels with +25 backspacing; DV8 front & rear bumpers, Engo 12k winch (SOLD) 2005 Tundra RC 4.7 4x4 w/3" spacer, addicted offroad tube winch bumper w/9k Engo, homemade sliders, skid row skid plate, 285/75r16 Cooper AT3, Detroit trutrac in rear.
    Yeah this sound increases in volume as you speed up, so it is definitely a correlation with speed and how fast something is spinning. Now eventually at higher speeds, like 75 mph, the wind noise will drowned out the swirling noise. The noise is most noticeable around 40 to 45 mph, as there is very little wind noise, but the bearing is spinning fast enough to create some decent noise. Also I know it is not anything with wind, or even tires, because when we jacked up the rear and the vehicle wasn't moving and the tires had no contact with the ground, you can still hear the noise, especially at 40 mph. We used the mechanics stethoscope on the right side, the center diff, then the left side near the wheel, and by far the noise was loudest through the stethoscope on the left side near the wheel. I am border line OCD when it comes to stuff like this. I know many people can just ignore it, but I can't. I will replace the whole rear axle if I can't find where the noise is coming from eventually. If that doesn't solve it, I will sell the truck. I can't stand stuff like this. Noises like this are why I have literally replaced every bearing and bushing on the truck. At this point, the entire front suspension and steering have all been replaced with high end parts. The Tundra drives great now, just this last stupid noise. In the last 24,000 miles, I have easily spent $3,000 in just new PARTS... none of that includes labor. It was not stuff that necessarily had to be replaced, just stuff to make it ride smoother and quieter.
     
  4. May 22, 2019 at 4:00 AM
    #4
    tvpierce

    tvpierce Formerly New Member

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    Something's not right with your explanation.

    The parts you link to are outer axle bearings and seals. The inner seal within that kit (upper right of the pic) keeps the gear oil in the axle -- so the gear oil never reaches the bearing. The bearing is pre-greased and sealed, and requires no further lubrication. Are you saying your machanic buddy removed one of the seals on the outer wheel bearing? :confused: If so, you need to find better friends... :D or at least stop going to them for mechanical work. If he really did remove one of the bearing seals, that's what caused the premature failure of the outer bearing -- because the grease was allowed to escape.

    To address the second part: was the lack of seal on the outer bearing the cause of the spider gear failure? Again, the outer axle bearing is completely separated from the diff. There is no way for metal pieces from the spider gear to make their way to the outer bearing.

    Hope that makes sense.
     
    EK20, Aerindel, Slp82 [OP] and 2 others like this.
  5. May 22, 2019 at 4:18 AM
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    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    You make a good point about the bearings being sealed. @Darkness just replaced all his bearings a few months back. Not sure if he had the ‘swirl noise’? Prior to replacing?
     
  6. May 22, 2019 at 4:30 AM
    #6
    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    Life is better once you become a recovering OCD person.
     
    Slp82 [OP] likes this.
  7. May 22, 2019 at 4:33 AM
    #7
    MOTORHEAD

    MOTORHEAD New Member

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    RCD 6" SUSPENSION LIFT,ICON EXTENDED FRONT COILOVERS,3" BODY LIFT,CAMBURG UPPER CONTROL ARMS.REAR DISK BRAKE CONVERSION,BIG BRAKE FRONT CONVERSION, AND MANY MORE
    I have a 2002 tundra 4.7 l engine 2 wheel drive. I have replaced the rear axle bearing twice , both on the passenger side. My problem was the axle seal kept failing and leaking oil which made the bearings fail because lack of lubrication. I have been told that timkin bearings are not as good as they used to be years ago. Their material they use is outsourced from low quality stock. I cannot really confirm this, bit i would try spicer brand company. I have used timkin and national brands in the past and had to replace too soon. Not too sure why that is, hope this helps
     
  8. May 22, 2019 at 4:35 AM
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    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    Did yours ‘swirl’?
     
  9. May 22, 2019 at 6:27 AM
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    MOTORHEAD

    MOTORHEAD New Member

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    No bearing noise, just leaking passenger seal. Gear oil all over rear brakes. Since then I have replaced seals,bearings, and converted drum to disk brakes in rear. Stops much better. Not too difficult for me
     
  10. May 22, 2019 at 6:46 AM
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    tvpierce

    tvpierce Formerly New Member

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    Sounds interesting. Do you have a write-up on your conversion?
     
    Sas likes this.
  11. May 22, 2019 at 6:58 AM
    #11
    tvpierce

    tvpierce Formerly New Member

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    Your problem is likely that the seal is/was not riding on the center of the retainer ring. If the seal is too close to the beveled edge, then any movement at the bearing allows the seal to leak. The positioning needs to be checked (and adjusted if necessary) upon install.
     
  12. May 22, 2019 at 7:29 AM
    #12
    FirstGenVol

    FirstGenVol The "Mangler"

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    Too many
    The OEM bearings are only $58 according to PHM. I think I would just go that route. Is there are huge savings with the other brands?
     
  13. May 22, 2019 at 10:53 AM
    #13
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    That beck/arnley kit is $28 on RA and comes with the seals, o-rings, tone rings, all the stuff needed to do the rear seals. It's what I used.
     
  14. May 22, 2019 at 3:02 PM
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    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    The ‘swirl’ sound is the problem I’d really like to nail down.

    I want to know what the problem is before throwing money at something. Bearing service/replace would cost me around $1700 at high dolla service shop using National Bearings and seals kits on all 4 corners. Labor and Materials.

    If the swirl is something else then no need!
     
  15. May 22, 2019 at 3:23 PM
    #15
    Slp82

    Slp82 [OP] New Member

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    2014 Tundra 4x4 5.7L DC; Bilstein 6112s @ 1.9"; 35x12.50 Nitto Ridge Grapplers on 20x9 wheels with +25 backspacing; DV8 front & rear bumpers, Engo 12k winch (SOLD) 2005 Tundra RC 4.7 4x4 w/3" spacer, addicted offroad tube winch bumper w/9k Engo, homemade sliders, skid row skid plate, 285/75r16 Cooper AT3, Detroit trutrac in rear.
    I will be honest, I have never been completely through a axle to know exactly how it is setup. It's just one of those things I never needed to work on with any vehicles Ive owned. It makes sense though what you are saying though and explains how it works. In the back of my head, I thought that it seemed weird as I doubt a company who builds bearings has engineers who don't know what they are doing. Maybe he packed a bunch of grease outside that inner seal and then put the bearing in there leaving the inside plate off the bearing exposing the ball bearings to the grease he packed in? That can be the only thing I can imagine. But if there is a seal as you said between the fluid and bearing, then there is no way metal particles could ever make it to the bearing. Its probably just a cheap Chinese bearing (as someone mentioned its $28 for the bearing and whole seal kit), plus I did drive it through about 2 feet of water for multiple hours during hurricane Harvey with these bearings. Maybe water got in them?


    That seems like a RIDICULOUS price for bearings and seals! You could buy a complete custom built Ford 8.8 with all new seals and bearings and replace the entire rear end for that! Almost every shop around here quoted me $450 to $550 for the labor. Then you are looking at about $180 in parts (assuming they don't mark them up) for factory Toyota parts plus oil. No way I would pay more than $700 total. $600 would be a "good price" for OEM Toyota parts and labor.
     
  16. May 22, 2019 at 3:27 PM
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    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    Ya. I ain’t paying nobodys $1700. Reason why I want to know what is this ‘swirl’.
     
  17. May 22, 2019 at 3:31 PM
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    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    I did price up all the Toy OEM parts for 4 corners and believe it was in the $400-500 range in PARTS!

    $170 per wheel labor. Around here I’d expect to pay around $1000-1200 TOTAL 4 corners.
     
  18. May 22, 2019 at 3:40 PM
    #18
    Slp82

    Slp82 [OP] New Member

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    2014 Tundra 4x4 5.7L DC; Bilstein 6112s @ 1.9"; 35x12.50 Nitto Ridge Grapplers on 20x9 wheels with +25 backspacing; DV8 front & rear bumpers, Engo 12k winch (SOLD) 2005 Tundra RC 4.7 4x4 w/3" spacer, addicted offroad tube winch bumper w/9k Engo, homemade sliders, skid row skid plate, 285/75r16 Cooper AT3, Detroit trutrac in rear.
    I just read up on this some and it appears you are right. Guess Timken fell of the wagon since I was told over a decade ago they were good bearings. To be fair, the sources I read said some of their bearings are still good. The sources said you have to verify if the bearing was made in China, Taiwan, USA, or Japan. If any bearing says made in China... run away. They said Taiwan are not bad, and USA or Japan are suppose to be good. These sources also said that SKF makes good aftermarket bearings still. Otherwise they recommend going with OEM, in our case, Toyota.
     
  19. May 22, 2019 at 3:43 PM
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    Slp82

    Slp82 [OP] New Member

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    2014 Tundra 4x4 5.7L DC; Bilstein 6112s @ 1.9"; 35x12.50 Nitto Ridge Grapplers on 20x9 wheels with +25 backspacing; DV8 front & rear bumpers, Engo 12k winch (SOLD) 2005 Tundra RC 4.7 4x4 w/3" spacer, addicted offroad tube winch bumper w/9k Engo, homemade sliders, skid row skid plate, 285/75r16 Cooper AT3, Detroit trutrac in rear.
    If the OEM bearings are only $58 as someone on here said, I dont see how the seals add another $280 to $380 in parts? Obviously I am going off of what someone else said in here, but that still seems excessively expensive for just parts.
     
  20. May 22, 2019 at 3:51 PM
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    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    Once you add up the seals, retainers, o-rings, etc you are up around $100 per wheel BEFORE TAX.

    Add in diff oil, brake cleaner, disposal, etc and a shop would charge easily $600-650 in OEM parts.

    Another $600-700 in labor and walla! High Dolla!

    I watched Timmah Toyota do these bearings and they do not look fun to do.
     
  21. May 22, 2019 at 3:52 PM
    #21
    Festerw

    Festerw New Member

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    I had the right side of mine done last fall at a dealer $640 including new brakes shoes on both sides. They said both would have been $1000, but the left side checked out fine.

    That was for the new bearing, seals, tone ring, etc. Figured it we worth it since I don't have access to a press and would spend more time running parts around. Local shop was only $50 cheaper.
     
  22. May 22, 2019 at 3:55 PM
    #22
    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    Yep. These things add up. Not a fun job. And if it goes wrong and leaks its on them for another long repair. A total tear down and rebuild.
     
  23. May 22, 2019 at 3:57 PM
    #23
    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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    What is this ‘swirl’ sound?

    Anyone else experience it?
     
  24. May 23, 2019 at 12:48 AM
    #24
    Slp82

    Slp82 [OP] New Member

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    2014 Tundra 4x4 5.7L DC; Bilstein 6112s @ 1.9"; 35x12.50 Nitto Ridge Grapplers on 20x9 wheels with +25 backspacing; DV8 front & rear bumpers, Engo 12k winch (SOLD) 2005 Tundra RC 4.7 4x4 w/3" spacer, addicted offroad tube winch bumper w/9k Engo, homemade sliders, skid row skid plate, 285/75r16 Cooper AT3, Detroit trutrac in rear.
    $1,000 sounds a lot more reasonable. Especially if you get brakes as well. Deduct those brakes and ill bet you would be around $850. I know some shops quote ridiculous crap. I remember when I was in my early 20s going to brake check and them quoting me $750 for simply replacing all 4 rotors and pads on my 1995 Ford Crown Victoria. I thought they were nuts. I went and bought new pads, and rotors for $130 and did it all in my driveway with no power tools in about 2 hours. They were not quoting me OEM ford parts either. It was for cheap aftermarket parts. On my way out of brake check I heard them tell an old man his 1996 Tahoe was going to be $1,050 for new pads, rotors and one new caliper. He agreed to it because he had no other choice. Not sure how they slept at night. I also worked for O'Reilly Auto Parts back then and knew we delivered the lowest quality parts to those shops, and they marked the parts up usually 300% of what they paid. When we sold those same parts to the public, our store only had a 35% to 40% mark up over what it cost our store.
     
  25. May 23, 2019 at 12:52 AM
    #25
    Slp82

    Slp82 [OP] New Member

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    2014 Tundra 4x4 5.7L DC; Bilstein 6112s @ 1.9"; 35x12.50 Nitto Ridge Grapplers on 20x9 wheels with +25 backspacing; DV8 front & rear bumpers, Engo 12k winch (SOLD) 2005 Tundra RC 4.7 4x4 w/3" spacer, addicted offroad tube winch bumper w/9k Engo, homemade sliders, skid row skid plate, 285/75r16 Cooper AT3, Detroit trutrac in rear.
    Its not necessarily a grinding sound. It sounds like if you took a knife blade and sharpened it on a very fine smooth wet stone, but at high speed. Thats the best way I can describe it. Sounds like two pieces of metal that are no longer perfectly smooth rubbing together making a light swirling noise that increases with speed. Ill see if I can record the sound tomorrow and post it in a link. Its very faint so the phone may not pick it up.
     
  26. May 23, 2019 at 2:51 AM
    #26
    tvpierce

    tvpierce Formerly New Member

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    I had both axle seals leaking on my '00 Tundra. I ordered SKF bearings and SKF seals from Rock Auto.

    I only did the left side because I was not impressed with the bearings or the seals and wanted to make sure everything went OK with one side before I did the other. The SKF bearings had way more lateral play in them than the one I took out, which was labled "China" and no brand name -- so I presume it was not the original (I just bought this truck a couple months ago). The SKF seal has a thinner lip, and the spring that provides tension was smaller, and didn't lock in place very well. As I suspected, I'll be doing that side again, as I noticed a very small drop of oil on my wheel last night after work. I'll be ordering Toyota parts and returning the unused SKF parts -- lesson learned.

    I figured it was a good bet: SKF is a quality bearing manufacturer, they supply parts to OEMs. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if SKF is the supplier for Toyota. I don't know what the deal is with the bearings I got... maybe their counterfeit? I don't know, but they're definately not OEM quality.
     
  27. May 23, 2019 at 3:33 AM
    #27
    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

    Joined:
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    ‘Somewhere’... a State of Mind
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    Hand Protectors
    Post up some pics!
     
  28. May 23, 2019 at 3:38 AM
    #28
    tvpierce

    tvpierce Formerly New Member

    Joined:
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    Of the bearing?
     
  29. May 23, 2019 at 3:43 AM
    #29
    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
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    #14878
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    Fred
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    2002 Tundra SR5 4WD 4.7L AC Silver Metallica
    Hand Protectors
    Yes please. The description you posted is great. Pics are better. This way we see what you say and can compare different bearings.
     
  30. May 23, 2019 at 4:28 AM
    #30
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

    Joined:
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    Even DIY it was still $250 to get the axles taken apart and pressed together. The dude at the shop looked at em when I opened the door and said "oh hell, toyota axles."
     

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