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Ok plumbers... what are your thoughts on this recirc install?

Discussion in 'Home Improvement' started by Dalandshark, Apr 6, 2021.

  1. Apr 6, 2021 at 10:20 PM
    #31
    NWPirate

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    This is making more sense with your issues.
     
  2. Apr 6, 2021 at 10:21 PM
    #32
    Tundra4x4rdytgo

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    Get a wrench and see if the nuts will allow you to close/open the valve. If they're stuck you need to replace them.

    If you think you're handy enough and possess a torch, solder flux and copper solder you can try to disassemble and install new ones.
     
  3. Apr 6, 2021 at 10:21 PM
    #33
    Dalandshark

    Dalandshark [OP] Infected with 5G

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    If it was my house, I would have...lol. But my dad is always freaked out about the great flood so plumber is in the near future for sure. I just want to make sure if he has a plumber out it gets installed the best way. Also, crowdsourcing info never hurts so I appreciate the input.
     
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  4. Apr 6, 2021 at 10:22 PM
    #34
    Tundra4x4rdytgo

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    I realistically can only see two things being wrong here,

    - Your cold check valve is failing to close properly
    - Your pump is bad
     
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  5. Apr 6, 2021 at 10:28 PM
    #35
    Tundra4x4rdytgo

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    To add on to this, and easy way to see if they're the problem is to take off the cap (using a 19, it'll be a bitch) see if there are any buildups, turn the smaller bolt to see if the gate closes and opens properly. Use teflon tape to reseal the threading or you will have a leak. If the gate is stuck up, its time for new valves.
     
  6. Apr 6, 2021 at 10:44 PM
    #36
    MS22

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    Not sure but I thought the pump was to be installed from the farthest utility faucet from the water heater.
     
  7. Apr 6, 2021 at 10:47 PM
    #37
    Tundra4x4rdytgo

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    You're thinking about the sensor valve. Which is installed in the sink furthest away from the water heater.
     
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  8. Apr 6, 2021 at 11:08 PM
    #38
    RainMan_PNW

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    I would agree that the diagram is missing a second check valve. I prefer to run them downstream of the pump instead of upstream as you pictured originally, just to eliminate possibility of blocking suction side of the pump. As a general rule, you want to give a pump unlimited inlet and throttle or otherwise limit the output for flow control to ensure the least long term issues.

    Outside of that, there’s really no other way to run a recirc system to a tank water heater. You can make it more complicated by introducing circuit balancing valves, cross-over bypasses at the individual fixtures, redundant check valves, etc. but all of that is overkill unless you’re doing a commercial building or hospital.

    You don’t want to route into the bottom via the drain. You’re just asking to stir up crap that would otherwise settle out in the tank. And the heater isn’t designed to operate that way.

    A stuck-open check on the cold water line would mean you’d be pushing hot water back into your cold line when the pump is running.

    A stuck-open check valve on the recirc side would mean cold water back-feeding through the pump into the recirc line. If the pressure is higher on the cold water side vs the hot water line, you could be setting mixing from the back-feed.

    Have you confirmed the pump is wired right, and not spinning in reverse? That, combined with a stuck open check, might account for a backfeed of cold water through the recirc line (which would also explain why it might take a couple minutes to happen).

    FWIW, my tankless water heater is piped up with a recirc loop that dumps into a small tank heater (5 gal) on the discharge side of the tankless heater. My setup is essentially the same as what you have except two things:
    1. My return check valve is between the pump and the T into the cold water inlet on the tank.
    2. My “cold water” supply is actually hot water coming from the tankless heater.

    I’ve been piped this way for over 15 years, and did the install myself. It works flawlessly, and I have no noticeable wait for hot water at any fixture in the house. And I’ve never had a problem with cold water coming through the hot pipes.
     
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  9. Apr 7, 2021 at 5:59 AM
    #39
    JohnLakeman

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    My custom home built in 2003 has a cartridge circulating pump on the hot water side only, but it requires a complete hot water piping loop back to the heater. Circulating pump constantly pulls water through the loop discharging back into a tee on the tank drain as you suggested. No check valve installed.

    There is also a timer that shuts off the circulating pump during night hours to reduce energy loss out of piping. Water in the heater tank remains at set temp, and in the morning, I have hot water at every faucet within a minute or so, thereafter in seconds. I could also add the electric heater to the 220V side of the timer, but then the recovery time is longer.
     
  10. Apr 23, 2021 at 2:14 PM
    #40
    Dalandshark

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    Weekend update: Mom and dad had the plumber out. He replaced the check valve, which was missing a piece inside. He was also able to feel cold water flowing back through the return line with the pump off and hot water running prior to the repair.

    So, guess it doesn’t really matter if the check valve is before or after the pump as long as it works.

    :thumbsup:
     
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