OFFICIAL: MY22+ Toyota Tundra - Throttle Lag/Hesitation From Stop Issue(s) - T-SB-0111-22

I am interessted if any ninja fixes are in the EPB/Brake ECU. Not that I found any evidence that this system is related to the issue but that computer does feed the wheel speed data to the ECU/TCU and is responsible for any traction control logic and PCS.

I'm getting that done on Monday so If i see any major behavior changes I should be able to notice right away.

 

My throttle lag totally disappeared after having 2 ECU flashes recently,(had the original flash done 6 mos. ago with little success) one for the TSB on the oil gauge and the other I complained the transmission wasn't shifting correctly, it runs like a raped ape now, doesn't matter which mode it's in the power is always there at any gear, cold or warm, this after 4k post miles so far.

 

Awesome info!!!

 

A little Brain dump:

I have a good idea of the data pids that are worth while looking at after going though several Toyota and Lexus Tech Tips for various models. They all ask for a similar set of data pids.

Some other tech info about the PIDS:

NT Speed Sensor and Output Speed sensor are in 50 rpm increments, its unknow if the ECM/TCM have a more precise rpm reading.
Vehicle Speed PID is 2 seconds behind actual speed/ speedometer speed. Confirmed in tech doc
Transmission Solenoid Actuation Pids are only available when doing the test commands only, so its hard to see how its shifting gears.

The strongest correlation between having the delay and the conditions are as follows:

Pressing the accelerator less than 1.4 Seconds after a commanded downshift to 1st and the NT speed sensor is 150 rpm and the output speed sensor is 50 rpm. (Its harder than you think to achieve this timing especially with out high speed scan tool)

According to the tech data I found when a downshift happens the NT speed should increase by 50rpm or more and I don't see that happen when there is delay, however the tech note on the PID said that changes at very low speeds might not show up.

Pressing the accelerator quickly after a downshift to 1st always yields some delay but it’s usually short and we may be stuck with that.
The reason for the very log delay vs short delay isn't clear but it may be a few things interacting.

I have had no such luck determining any conditions that cause the "exit" of the delay besides time elapsing.
I am not sure if the 2 second delay in vehicle speed to the ECU is a factor or if the deceleration speed is a factor.

I haven’t looked trans temp as a factor because I didn’t log that consistently in the beginning and I don’t go on many long drives to get it up to temp.

Its worth testing if you experience the lag in 4H. So far I have not noted it with the snow on the ground but I also didn’t do specific tests with the scan tool to confirm.

When Dealing with the Service department.

As confirmed with the latest car care nut video, always write the notes down on a paper and hand that to the service advisor so it gets to the tech verbatim.

I think its also ok to ask if they can check if the calibrations are up to date and possibly rest the TCM memory for you.

Its also ok to ask for a test drive with the tech if they can’t replicate. I think it may be a good idea to ask if they can log with the scantool while you are driving. That could also be helpful for them to tell you when it downshifts to try to replicate with my method.

Its also ok to ask for a TAS case if they are lost, instead of walking out with “its normal.”

Don’t mention forums and a lot of tech mumbo jumbo. I’m ok with sharing some of the screenshots for illustration (IE I feel like this is what may be happening) but remember that the data is not from your truck. I would rather you take it and draw it out instead though.

I had a service advisor that was genuinely interested in the data so I talked a little more techy but I wrote every thing down first.

 

I’ve been pretty vocal about this lag/hesitation. I just got my truck back from a service, 3 recalls, 2 tsb, window seals, extra key and I finally got them to flash the ecu. On my drive home it seemed to be driving the way it should. I think time will tell honestly but my first impression is positive.

 

I took my truck in for service recently and they tell me that there isn't an update for my truck for this issue. And brought it back the next day for the fuel line repair, but they said they couldn't raise my truck because of my added OEM power steps in extended position. So I asked them how did they do my oil change just 2 days prior.

 

Interesting thread and holy cow @rlc177 that is some impressive data logging. Sounds like some have gotten it fixed and others not. I'm just posting here so I can keep an eye on it.

BTW, Toyota has a team that reads through forum posts and I know several engineers who are on various forums looking for feedback like this. They don't often comment, just take notes. Trust me, I've had several privately bitch to me about stuff they have read. LOL. I shared that to say Toyota is listening and it is likely they are working on either a fix or have developed a fix that reflashing the ECU addresses.

 

Yes this issue is the sole reason I'm not 100% in love with my truck. In this case when you have a problem like this its hard to kind of get traction though the dealer service department, after all they aren't powertrain control module engineers so what can the really do.

Toyota did release a calibration update for trucks manufactured before 2023, but mine and many others have that newer software version. (mind you without dealer level tools its hard to even find out what versions of software are on the truck and if there are any updates)

In my case I started to log all this to 1) Prove I'm not crazy 2) Find a way or procedure to help people replicate this when you talk to there service department.

1) Is successful 2) Seems partially successful.

Some troubles is I don't know how the ECU/TCU works, I don't know exactly what to look at so its like trying to work backwards. Look at dozens of drives and try to see if anything is different when it lags vs normal.

My dealer and service advisor have been really good in both being interested and passing on my notes and data to Toyota, my tech replicated my issues partially due to the more detailed procedure. The case is in TAS's hands.

Not sure if its just an edge case not addressed in the original update or something entirely else. I'm sure some of my theorys or assumptions might be off in left field but its been an interesting ride.

Also due to some of my digging and some digging by @ryanwgregg we found many similar tsb's for several other models using this powertrain and the highlander turbo.

Hopefully they issue a new calibration and we can all be completely fixed.

 

It’s possible but I’ve been asking

I agree, at least there’s someone with hard data. My ecu flash didn’t do anything. I thought it may have for two days but it’s back to behaving badly. It’s the one thing that will keep me from buying another Toyota; how poorly the dealers and service personal have dealt with this lag issue. I have 2 years left until I have to turn this in and 2 years to hope that something else comes available.

 

They said they rotated the tires with floor jacks.

I have a 22 model and they tell me there is no calibration/update for this issue.

 

Sure there happens to be a pretty straight forward process for you:

Review T-SB-0111-22 here: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10230373-9999.pdf
Compare your vin number is lower than the vin numbers listed there you know you did not have the update.

Specifically Mention the TSB to the service department and request they give you a Health Check Printout. The Health check will list all the calibrations and if there are any updates. The thing make it easy for the tech, they can even click on the update and it tells them what is fixed.

Unfortunately Toyota has some outdated polices on calibration updates, and confusing documentation. There isn't a lot of value because the warranty claim is peanuts for the dealership so for some reasons a portion of them are stubborn and wont update stuff by request.

 

I did. Until I get the running boards out of the way, they won't do the fuel line because they can't get it on the lift. Because of that, that's why I asked what they did 2 days prior about my oil change and rotation.

 

This particular dealer is one of those stubborn ones. I've ask them every time I'm there about and tsb's and the girl says it's just the fuel line and the tonneau cover. Per this picture, mine having an N instead of P indicates and earlier run, correct?

 

That's what I thought. But Ryanwgregg noted an oil change could be done without lifting the vehicle. My local shop that usually changes it did have a problem lifting it the time before this. They have a 2 post lift so I guess they have pad extensions or something.

 

Correct "N" is 2022 MY and "P" is 2023 MY

Also if you have a very early 2022 there was an ECU recall, if you got that update you might have inadvertently got the newer calibration with that. Again the Dealer can just check by hooking up GTS and doing a health check.

Some cheaper scan tools can read the CAL ID's you could try to check there, I think its under mode $9.

 

It appears the throttle lag/surge isn't just a Toyota problem, friend of mine who owns an F150 twin with 10 speed tranny happened to discuss the issue and he noted Ford has this problem as well, sometimes when slowing down or turning a corner the throttle will do "nothing" for a second or two, then kick in, sound familiar?

 

I have shown them the TSB's. They turn around and tell me all they can do is what their scantool says. I really should take it to another dealer but it's hard to find the time.

Would a version tech stream give myself the ability to update/flash?

 

I know that it's somewhat common on the fords to have the dealer reset the TCM memory when the tranny gets derpy.

 

Possible, but also I replicated issues even with as much as I could disable as a user (Long press the trac control button) but that doesn't rule out very low level stuff.

I am also suspect that the because vehicle speed pid is like 2-3 seconds behind the actual speed (comes from the brake ECU/wheel sensors) that sometimes the rate of decel is improperly calculated.

 

Please note the original thread title has been revised to bring better visibility to the issue. Appreciate @ryanwgregg, @rlc177, and all others for their contributions.

 

I continue to have throttle lag as well. I notice this mostly when turning from a slow or dead stop. Push pedal slightly and hear engine rev but truck isn't moving. So I try to feather the pedal to not slam my passengers to their seat. This has to be fixed, period. I did bring this up to my dealer on a recent visit and they said no trouble found of course. Truck has 7k miles - what a shame/sham

 

I'll get there one day. Had the truck for 10 months now. I can tell you that my company issued Chevy Malibu doesn't have any issues. I could have bought 3 of those for 1 Tundra.

This is my first new truck and I always had my eyes on a Tundra finally pulling the trigger last year. I'm disappointed honestly. But I'll hold out hope that Toyota will make things better as they do have a reputation to uphold.

 

I saw that suggestion - it really doesn't show much difference.

 

Having the same issue on my 2018

 

I wish I could do a ride along with you and others. It sounds like a normal operation of a small displacement turbo engine to me, but without seeing your experience, I can't say for sure.

 

What engine is in the Malibu? The turbo 4 cylinder?

 

Tim there is a specific mauver you could try the next time you are in a press vehicle, I'm also curios if this happens on the 4th gen Tacoma, or any other platforms using the 3.4 and 10 speed.

Its best to try this cold start around 30-50F outside. Drive up to about 12 mph, then slowly slow down with light brake application, try to get back on it at between 2-3 mph, being on some sort of incline could also affect it.

The best I can say is think of being in a rush, at a 4 way stop. I.E you just slowed down to a 4 way stop, and someone just waved you to go just as you slow down.

Also if you can get access to one of those scan tool that is more advanced (Xtool, Launch, autell etc) they are good at getting info you need to specifically cause the issue. (Watch for the 3 to 1 or 2 to 1 downshift)

If you are able to replicate a delay, just hold the pedal steady, and you will feel it wake up on its own.

 

There's a four way down the street from me. I'll have to try it. I just don't recall any concerns I had over throttle hesitation in the 22 Tundra I owned.

 

ya, but then you would own 3 Malibus, lol.

 

Yeah I 100% believe that many trucks don't have the issue, I do thing some portion have the issue and the user doesn't notice (It kind mostly is very brief) It does take from what I can tell very specific manipulation of the vehicle speed to make happen.

I can do the exact same drives on the same route and not have the issue, go weeks with out the issue and other time have it happen 2 or 3 times in a single drive.