OFFICIAL: MY22+ Toyota Tundra - Throttle Lag/Hesitation From Stop Issue(s) - T-SB-0111-22

haha I guess Toyota hasn’t gotten their shit together yet on the issue

 

Yeah, I was in tow/haul mode. It felt like the motor had fallen asleep, and then wasn't sure, so it woke up and jerked ahead as I was trying to take off across the intersection. I've experienced the lag before, but this was the first time while towing. I'm not sure if it was the same - it happened so fast, and as I wanted to get across the very busy intersection as quickly as possible - I didn't pay a lot of attention to the details as I was watching the traffic (it's a 2 lane turn I was in(this intersection has 5 lanes I was in, 2 left, 2 straight, and one right lane - very busy intersection), into a 4 lane highway (2 each direction with a divider) to make a left 90 degree turn onto the other road )

 

I'm saving my pennies and getting balls-deep in the Inflation Reduction Act so that I can acquire a 1XX,XXX mile example of a gen 3.

THEN I will know strength, boy. THEN I will know power!

 

So... My commute is generally very mellow, driving through the city... Stops signs and traffic lights every few blocks...

But once in a while I do need to make a quick move, and I'm scared right away as I don't know what to expect from my truck, so I'm now very cautious and not making any sudden moves.


.... Wait...

 

The other day(not while towing the boat) - I put it in sport mode, and then was at an intersection with a turn onto a high volume 2 lane road (up a slight grade) - and I had an opening, so I hit the pedal hard... She was spinning the tires - and the nannies were lighting up trying to get it not to spin... so I let up a bit and grabbed some firm pavement and she took off. There was no lag that time!

 

Anybody with a 2024 experiencing the lag?
Among other things, this is one reason I am trading my ‘23 for a ‘24 in the coming weeks, but totally except to continue to experience this issue.

 

I believe I did just last night for the very first time since I purchased in Oct. Luckily I was in our neighborhood so nothing to scary but it was damned annoying.

 

Thanks for sharing. I’m hoping to get lucky with the new one. My ‘23 is really bad.

 

I think I saw one or two 2024s here report the throttle lag still.

Why would you want to trade in your 2023 for 2024 if they haven't resolved this lag issue for sure?
How much money will you be loosing on resale and taxes for this trade?

I'm still waiting to make sure they resolved it 100% before I trade. Huge loss in CA, I'll be out $15-20k or so... Thx Toyota

 

The lag isn’t the main reason I’m trading. I was kicking myself for getting an sr5 with the small gas tank and no folding mirrors (I have to stop and fold in mirrors going in and out of the garage everyday-such a 1st world problem.)
Basically I’ll be out about $7k but also upgrading trims… the difference is the same amount if I had just bought the limited in the first place. Plus I got 13.5k miles out of it.

 

There is no way to confirm it without an official update to the existing TSB or a new TSB to verify calibrations.

What I would suggest is you test drive the 2024 with a specific loop and maybe in a parking lot to try to do stops over and over and see if its handling it better.

 

@alex17117 i’m having the issue with my 2024 that i receive october the 13th
Actually i already talk to a few guy that have 2023 and they don’t have the issue

But it’s realy like if the truck does not down shift properly i remember the Time that i had a manual transmission and wasn’t down shifting in frits gear at the stop, it’s exactly the same issue for me it’s like if my transmission is slipping

i will call my dealer next week, my truck have only 500km
will Seesaw

 

I almost don't believe that some have this throttle lag issue and some don't.

One of the possibilities is maybe everybody drives differently, some have driving conditions that would show more of the lag while others don't, some expect no lag while others don't care, some drive fast and others drive slow.

Why would some 2023s not have lag and 2024 would? I think there's a high chance some people just don't feel it or think it's normal and not lag. The human aspect

 

I'm glad I came across this thread! I thought it was just me thinking I was stepping on the gas pedal but not actually. My body would anticipate acceleration, but the truck wouldn't go! Today it happened for the third time and I knew it wasn't me this time, the truck just would not accelerate and another car was coming up on my tail. I was in "normal" mode all three times. Is there a fix for this? I have an appointment in early December for my FOB and a couple other issues.

Please help!!!

 

No fix yet... For the past two years.

 

So shall we say that the lag is normal then, and is just a characteristic of this v6 TT engine?

 

Can we test this theory? Any way to completely disable the safety features, and drive around to see if they lag is gone?

 

I read somewhere on this forum that the truck takes off in 2nd gear unless in tow haul mode. After testing this theory it seems to hold true. At my kids school there’s a fairly steep uphill with a speed bump, entry/exit bus lane and crosswalks. So when I slow down mid hill then try and slowly go up the rest of the hill it sounds like I’m slipping the clutch in 3rd gear with a manual transmission. Rpm’s are up and making lots of noise but doesn’t feel like it’s fully engaged.
Tow/haul mode drastically reduces this sensation.
I greatly miss the direct pedal to move I received in my 2020 V8 tundra. Hope an update comes out as driving around town is not ideal from stop signs/lights. I feel like I’m burning up my auto transmission when it does this. Also in reverse it’s equally as terrible. Backing up my driveway is steep as well and today it was snow/ice so I was being very light on the throttle input and it just roars the rpm’s and it’s like I’m in 4hi in deep mud and it doesn’t want to turn the wheels.

Up here in Canada, at least where I live, it’s still pandemic times at Toyota dealers. No trucks to test drive. I buy Toyota for resale value and reliability. Hope this one keeps good on both those items.

 

My anecdotal opinion is that all gen 3 tundras have the throttle lag. I’ve driven six of them now (test drives and my 2) and all have the exact same hesitation. I believe the issue is more a function of driving behavior than it is certain trucks.

 

I’ve had two Tundras now, 22’ SR5 and 23’ TRDPro, they both have/had the issue but the hybrid does overcome the lag better.

I too believe this to be an intentional programming issue. I’m 100% convinced the truck does not downshift to a low enough gear when coming to a stop. I believe it to be higher than 2nd gear from stop, based on recent hunting trip where I used the sport shift. I could manually sport shift in 2nd gear and climb hills with ease. 1st gear was awesome.

If Toyota could correct this, I’d have no complaints about the drive train. It’s more irritating after watching recent reviews of 2024 Tacoma smoking tires from a dead stop.

 

This truck definitely hauls the mail, it’s the easy takeoffs, especially on any incline, that result in the annoying behaviour in my case. When I hear hesitation I think the truck doesn’t respond with rpm’s. Maybe I’m describing a different phenomenon? The truck responds with rpm’s it just feels like it’s in too high of a gear and makes noise and doesn’t really move in proportion to that noise.

 

I noticed that when switching to S mode that it defaults to S4. I was messing around with shifting through S1-10 and noticed how responsive the throttle is during the run from 1-10. I also had my 6 month check up and asked the dealer to look into lag, auto stop/stop, etc and performed as defined. Can one set the default to a lower gear?

 

There is a few different issues that may be related or different things.

The thing I'm specifically looking at is How the accelerator input is mapped to an increase throttle angle. There are defiantly conditions where the input is ignored and the ECU is commanding very little or just off idle throttle angles and then after 250 - 750 ms the throttle is commanded to the expected angle.

Example Accelerator is pressed at A to about 20% value, but the throttle angle is not actually moved until 750ms later at B. The pedal felt dead for almost a full second.

We can see in that in the time frame C there was only a tiny requested increase of throttle but after the 750ms the ECU commanded more throttle.




That seems to be related to a timing of a downshift from 3rd or 2nd (depending on speed) to 1st gear as you are slowing down. While that downshift happens there seems to be a window to see a delay.

As far as the reason why everyone doesn't experience the same thing or consistently the number one factor is a difference in cadence of driving. Depending on the driver and vehicle weight the car will slow down at a different rate, and the timing between getting back on the throttle after slowing down will be different for every driver. My typical cadence is 1.4 seconds between these events which is near the suspected "delay window) If that timing is 1.8 seconds or more the delay is never seen from what I see. If I drive in a specific way I often can experience no delay. I either come to a complete stop or i wait a split second longer before I would normality press the pedal and I experience a trouble free drive.

The biggest driver factor is how quickly they get off the brake and on to the throttle. Case in point most reports of this issue seem to revolve around trying to pull into busy traffic where one might quickly transition from brake to throttle. This is often when I see it even when trying to avoid the condition because I'm in a hurry to get going again.

The other factor is it seems to happen more extreme (longer delay) in the first 5 minutes of the drive cycle. Noted also as myself and others often see it most bad when first pulling out of a driveway. (a common place were you just slow down a bit and try to go right away) Some people may not have a sudden stop in the first 5 minutes of their drives ever, or have a lot of full stop stop lights in their drives.

My two possible theory's on what's wrong with the programming
1) There is a timing where the ECU is following a logic where the throttle is controlled during shifting. The ECU modulates the throttle during shifting to get the engine rpm to match the shift speed. Once the shift is completed the Throttle logic is handed back to the normal routine.
2) There is a bad table/value under certain conditions where the requested throttle angle is too small, once the engine rpms slowly come up after 300-700ms the conditions match the correct throttle angle.
3) May or may not affect hybrid models. For example the bug may only affect hybrid models when the engine is running the electric motor logic might be fine.

There is also some evidence that some smaller delays may be caused by knock/retard that occur while pressing the accerator, but these events the vehicle seems to be moving along at a higher speed. The below example was slowing down into 3rd gear and some delay in the throttle response. Note I only see these in the data and there is less of a feeling as a driver. Higher octane may help/fix these delays.

 

I just came from a 2005 V8 Tundra to the 2024 V6TT Tundra and I do notice some lag when pressing the gas pedal from a dead stop (especially in ECO mode) but it's very brief and almost non-existent in sport mode. The 2005 tended to be very abrupt when you press the gas pedal and snapped your neck back with more than just the slightest touch of the accelerator. This instant torque can be an issue when you're pulling out on onto a wet road with traffic coming as I'd get wheel spin unless I was in 4WD mode. I feel the slight lag the 2024 has allows you to better control acceleration and avoid the neck snap and unintended wheel spin.

 

This is probably normal `ish`. Pressing the pedal to like 20% in eco will be like the same as pressing the pedal 5% in sport. The ramp rate in eco is less than in sport. However regardless of the mode the same power is available in each mode just the amount you have to press down is more in eco than sport.

In general ECO will give you a lot of resolution for light throttle adjustments but require you to floor it to get any large amount of power.

The old engines used a more direct and simple logic that has a more direct feeling between the accelerator and the throttle.

 

My issue is when taking off from a stop and uphill, when holding pedal steady at sight pressure I could drive 100miles and the issue would be present for all 100miles.

 

@Supertech1 I’m 100% agree with you i also believe that the truck does not downshift to a low enough gear when i came to a stop because the transmission seems to stay in 3rd gear but when i’m in manuel shifting mode i’m downshift to the 1st gear and put it back in auto mode and it’s fine

 

In in a '23 1793 hybrid. Sometimes it reminds me of my first minibike with max-torque centrifugal clutch.

 

Following this thread. I would tend to agree that it definitely feels as though transmission is not downshifting to 1st gear, rather starting out in 2nd or 3rd. Especially after a "rolling stop" type situation. (Not coming to a complete stop). The engine responds and RPM comes up but due to higher gear sensation you don't get the expected torque response to the wheels. Happens during certain situations and brake to accelerator timing cycles.

Only once did the engine not respond. Happened shortly after cold start. Few blocks down street at stop sign, went to pull out into traffic... pressed accelerator... nothing... no engine response at all. So just waited for cars to pass then worked fine after that. Now my truck has always acted a little jerky while driving with cold engine, but that's to be expected during initial engine and transmission warm up cycle.

 

So I started another thread (maybe mod can move my post here?) but my truck appears to have been fixed after having the first oil change done on Monday. It's a '22 about 18 months old and I just always assumed the engine/transmission programming were annoying because of fuel economy/emissions tuning, because that's how it was with my previous vehicle and that's what is happening to motorcycles now. Never bothered to talk to the dealer about it or even look it up online.

The first couple days after I got it back I just ignored the difference because sometimes it drives a little better or worse and then goes back to normal. Then I thought maybe just a bit of fresh oil making a difference. But it's dramatically different, to the point that I'm not sure it's actually been using all the gears in the transmission and I don't think it has ever used 1st gear before this week.

There's nothing written down on my service work order about a software update or flash, is it possible Toyota is just quietly fixing it? I'm actually afraid to change the driving mode or anything in case it's just a fluke and it goes back to how it was before.