No Start after Timing/Valve Job - nightmare buy

06 LTD 2WD 2UZFE Automatic 127k

Hello All - New to the forum - got another im an idiot and got a lemon story.

First let me go over what i have gone through/done with this nightmare, i am pretty handy mechanically but i would never say im an automotive troubleshooter nor anywhere remotely ASE Certified. My usual MO if i get a used car with no mechanical history is to throw parts at it just so i know when the last major maintenances were because i just did them.

i had gotten this truck for 4 grand about 2-3 yr's ago pre covid- it rode okay but not great, at the time i think i was more in love with the price thinking i can probably fix whatever and it just needs love but it went limp mode almost immediately after purchasing.

i found the only thing holding the vehicle together was mickey mouse, its been some time so the order of these actions may not be accurate but the point is i have been throwing parts at multiple issues trying to get it going. this all was in a span of a few weeks or months back before covid hit

i was thinking a vacuum issue at first. i found that the intake manifold was JBWELD together in some places as it was cracked where some of the hoses connected and that failed creating the vacuum leak. so i replaced the intake manifold with another used one but still i was having issues. after some poking around and listening to a friend we replaced all the spark plugs and coil packs (they were cracked/old) we replaced the Fuel injectors, i even found that the cat's were drilled out, so i had found some used ones to replace that and put in all new o2 sensors, that didnt help so i even replaced the fuel filter and pump. at that point we even did a timing job and replaced the water pump but that didnt fix it, in our stupidity we finally then did a compression test and found out there was a dropped valve on cylinder 8 that was stuck open/bent (zero compression). i believe some other BS was going on that i may not remember, what i do remember was to make sure to always check compression or you will waste alot of time running circles.... oh well

i had the head resurfaced and new valves seated as well as re shimmed and went to rebuild. i was re assembling the motor so i removed all tissues blocking the oil valleys to the crank case while rebuilding thinking its done.when.. i dropped a camshaft bearing bolt on cylinder 7 and it went down the deep valley in the back or so i thought. i couldnt find it.in my head, crap its in the engine. so thinking i dropped it in the engine i lost all hope and morale and gave up on it and let it sit for nearly over a year. ... (i even tried using little snake cameras to check, no luck)

well i got some leave recently and had alot of time to kill - so i decided to put my nose to the grinder. pulled the engine, removed the pans and checked the crank. i couldnt find the darn thing. i felt even dumber than before but now... now i was sure it wasnt in the engine so i rebuilt the engine while it was out (boy was it alot easier this way) redid the timing, rechecked the shims, did some cleanup and was putting on the valve covers when i noticed something in the spark plug tube.

... it was the bolt i thought i dropped into the engine... BOY did i lose it. even more so.... i have no idea how that got in there.... i must have had the cover to the side will working on the engine or maybe even placed it there unconsiously.. truth be told the boys were over and we were having beers. but MAN.. did i feel dumb.

So i powered through that and dropped the engine in the last few days and connected her up. i went to turn the key and it will crank, but i got not start. so traumatized from before i checked my compression and im wondering maybe if i messed up by not putting new rings on the pistons when i had it out. me only having a dropped valve i was certain that would make things better. im probably just traumatized thinking its compression but Does anyone know what normal should be? maybe this isnt why but i just cant help but think.

this is what i saw in PSI

my engine - compression per cylinder

185 (8) (7) 145
160 (6) (5) 150
150 (4) (3) 160
140 (2) (1) 145

no codes on the scanner, BUT i do not have the downstream o2 sensors installed, as i havent put in the exhaust. to be this shouldnt interfere with start.. .maybe im wrong?

 

What's the fuel pressure?

Does it start with ether/starter fluid?

Note: The fuel pump only turns on when cranking, not with the key in ON position. It will only remain on if the crank position sensor is connected and detecting rotation.

 

I’m curious what caused it to drop the valve in the first place. Is it spitting and sputtering trying to start or just cranking over?

 

just cranking, no ignition. regards to fuel i pulled the return line to check so i know its sending at least, and i smell gas on the exhaust. not sure how to prove spark is happening. like its just turning over and thats it

 

also it looked like someone tried the timing job and/or a head rebuild prior to me so im not sure if this was something they were fighting and pawned off on to me. one can only guess

 

Starter fluid is a very cheap non-scientific way to test. If you're getting spark, it's gonna fire on the fumes.

Spark testers/ignition coil testers are cheap also, and one way to verify you're getting something there.

Don't forget: Only three things are needed for engines to run: Air, fuel, spark. For EFI engines, to stay running, you need metered air, normally above 20psi fuel pressure, and properly timed spark. Three things. Start checking off the boxes, so you can reduce your window of possible candidates, isolate which one you don't have. If you have all three, positively, then this is likely a sensor, electrical, or programmatic (ECU) issue. There are a few sensors required to run.

There's a few stupid things that can happen also. You mentioned swapping coil packs. If you bought them on scAmazon (counterfeit central) or you bought non-OEM (although MSD are apparently OK), I'd be skeptical, but it wouldn't be spark-free on all cylinders. You mention swapping injectors, these engines don't like non-OEM injectors, or non-OEM O2 sensors for example, and sometimes the o-rings can get stuck when pulling, causing weird leaks and shit. Stupid shit happens when you use non-OEM parts with these trucks, but none of that (I think) will impact ability to start like this.

I'd also go over all of the electrical connectors and stuff. Both cam position sensors. Crank position sensor, and make sure it's OK. Make sure the fuel resistor (finned contraption on top of the passenger fender, next to PS reservoir) is plugged in and reading resistance.

I'd check both the timing up front, and also check the cam timing. With this being an '06 and all the fun VVTi stuff in the top-end, especially after what @Brynden29 went through recently simply forgetting to install a service bolt in the scissor gear when rebuilding his top-end and getting timing off by half a tooth or something, causing misfires ... it's really something to look at so this doesn't turn into a similar 2-dozen page thread.

 

PS - cheap way to test for spark here, but requires a 2nd person, or being ambidextrous to jump the starter relay as you hold the coil+plug: https://www.tundras.com/threads/multiple-misfires-after-rebuild-fixed.110071/page-2#post-2845549

Actually, you really should just read that entire thread for insight on what else you can check: https://www.tundras.com/threads/multiple-misfires-after-rebuild-fixed.110071/

 

great points, lets focus on the 3 for now and try and keep it simple and i will peruse that thread you mentioned. coil packs are whatever autozone has a lifetime warranty on, the injectors are rebuilds/remans "supposedly"

i have also heard of the dreaded one or two tooth off timing, but i feel like it has no spark since im not getting misfires... but again who knows. prior to the tear apart it atleast struggled and misfired horribly. what i got here is just anticlimactic

Air - my scanner shows the throttle position sensor is working so i will not look at that just yet - likely not a factor

Spark - (culprit?) i will make a harbor freight run and pickup a spark tester so i can verify that side - any reccommendations?

Fuel - is having fuel sending on the line and unburnt fumes a good enough indicator or do i need to be trying to listen for the click on the injectors?

Compression - i also realized why my number 8 was higher than the rest, i did have some oil get in there versus the rest being dry. engine wasnt warmed up and the minimum psi was 142 with 192 max, so with that in mind i think compression is ruled out....

 

Any spark checker will do. It's just a light that hooks between your coil pack and spark plug. Also, did you put the line that connects to the fuel rail back together properly? If those washers aren't in the right order you won't get fuel to the rail. I've done that before.

 

Old school spark tester is pull the plug from the head, connect the wire, lay the plug on the intake manifold, have a buddy turn the key and see if you see the spark. Just make sure you aren’t touching the spark plug when you turn the key. They hurt.

 

Just a thought, old school was dropped valve, bent, almost always jumped a few teeth on timing, if you have fuel ,& spark, possibly firing on open valves. Will show good compression , just not at correct time.

 

This is a good point. If @Xfury52x finds he's getting spark on at least one plug, and spraying starter fluid into a cylinder or the intake results in ignition, it's a fuel problem, and you probably just nailed the issue. This is why I keep a can of ether in my garage at all times. If I'm not getting anything using starting fluid, it's almost assuredly a spark/electric issue.

Yeah, only for future reference, these trucks hate shit like that. There are a few parts you never want to go with store brand, LAPS, or even "respectable" 3rd party on. Coil packs are one, starter another, fuel pump a third. More info over here in the "maintenance and parts" section. At least you bought locally, scAmazon and fleaBay have counterfeits peppered throughout their supply chain, more than one person here's been burned with that, spark plugs are really bad.

Not knowing what the PO/POs did prior doesn't help.

Try the free method first.

Depends, can you be 100% confident that's not residual, from before? EFI requires a decent amount of pressure, so it's not just supply, but pressure, and a failing fuel pump would 100% account for the misfires you mention before you started digging in. Does your scanner support checking fuel supply data (trims, etc)?

Check what @bmf4069 mentions also, it's an easy mistake to make. There are cheap ways to measure fuel pressure too, maybe worthwhile to toss a simple gauge before the FPR, then after the FPR just to see what the pump is putting out while you're turning the engine over.

Seeing numbers over 100-120, I had no concerns, it's when I see zeroes or double-digits that perks an eyebrow. However, no pressure on a single cylinder can be something as stupid as a stuck valve. One guy on here went thru that and we urged to buy a bore scope to look in the cylinder. Ended up swapping the engine, only to find later it was just that - stuck valve. Could've likely been resolved with some Seafoam. Unfortunately, the new engine came with its own series of problems, and I don't know if he ever actually got it running or not.

 

All great info!!! I love it.

I went today to try the spark tester. Noticed I was getting spark and WALAHH start. Startled the hell out of me. It seems to be running right now. Really weird.

I have the exhaust off so it was very Nascar too.
There was one thing I omitted. After having start issues the first time I removed the manifold to check wiring and foubd the starter connector sucked so i repaired that. Re assembling it I cracked the coolant temp sensor. I also just replaced this. Don't tell me this is what it was after finding the start issue. Lol

Or did it Need a rest. I'll just blame the sensor

 

There are two temp sensors and they're side by side on this engine. One is for the gauge in the dash. The other is for the ECU to monitor the engine. I don't know if lack of signal from the ECU monitoring sensor one would cause this, I'd need to dig. But I don't plan to dig. And I hope that wasn't it.

Now you can return the spark tester, using the now-running truck

 

It's very likely the sensor. The temp sensor is often forgotten about but its one of the most important ones for the ECU. Ever try to start an old school engine without using a choke? Thats like trying to start a EFI engine without a temp sensor.

 

So you confirm, absence of the ECU temp sensor will cause a no-spark/no-start condition?

 

I can't confirm in our trucks, as I have not had this specific problem in my truck...I can confirm at least in Subarus, that a disconnected engine temp sensor will cause a no start condition.

 

OP, is it still working ok?

 

Update

Was definitely getting the no spark from the coolant temp sensor being cracked. So that's gone and now the rest of the fun continues.

so after this. I put the old exhaust flange gaskets in and went on a drive to check it out and immediately got hit with the sais codes. Limp moving me.

BUT.

Luckily i reemembered that I had part of a sais bypass kit still installed because that was one of the failed systems when I bought this thing a few yrs ago. I actually rebuilt all that stuff but forgot to cut out the capacitors going to the sais unit and now that's back to normal thank goodness. Needed to solder the white/blue stripe wire back in the loop.

Not too long after I got o2 sensor codes but I resolved that with new flange gaskets.

Where I am now is...

I am befuddled by the sealed transmission. I want to replenish the fluid to where it was before I removed the radiator and hoses. At first I removed the check plug while not running and cold and essentially drained the pain. So that was a mistake. I then filled up what I know I lost and maybe a little more. Read on the forums some and then got it to 115 degrees*check w scanner* and tried pulling the check plug again but I had alot of fluid come out and I'm just very nervous that I'm doing it wrong. I took a test drive. Seems okay but this may be the thing I secede to the dealer. Thoughts? i never had a sealed transmission before. I saw a Toyota video about the check plug having another tube inside after it but I didn't see one. Does that apply to these transmissions?

Another thing. I've heard these engines are very ticky with valve noise. After the valves being put back into spec, still pretty ticky. Is that just how these ones go? I have no reference really. Just wondering. I have new exhaust manifold gaskets as well so I'm thinking it's not a leak.

Other things I have left.

the smog code routine.

i had locked up rear parking brakes. I just pulled the cable on it so it wasn't grinding. That needs to be serviced.

I noticed my fuel gage level is sticking. Smh. I did replace the pump a few years back in the foolishness. I saw that the part. Kinda reminded me of a rheostat. was somewhat worn but given the engine wasn't running I didn't pay too much attention. Now that has bit me in the butt

I also have an 03 spindle on it, with the infamous smaller ball joints because the hub/bearing went bad and I couldn't manage to press it out and replace myself. So I went and got lkq. I put that in judt to get it moving. I'm nervous that it's 1. The wrong part. 2 it will fail like I've read about. However I will say I feel absolutely no play on the test drive. So there's that.

I'm going to replace the fuel hoses between the rails and the chassis. One has a worn clip I want to call it and the other had gotten bent really bad. Considering I got my cats for this from a tundra that caught fire from the fuel rail, I really wanna do this. (I got one of the 2 hoses already)

I have a power steering hose that has the outer sheath torn from the power steering pump hanging from it for over a year with the engine out.

I need all new tires. I'm also eyeing a lift but of course the other stuff needs to get done first.

Lots of work....

 

Was trans at temp and engine still running when you checked it? You should slightly overfill (.5-1qt) get to temp, remove plug and let it go from a solid stream until it just starts to taper off (like when you try to pour too fast from a jug and it 'glugs' as you pour).


For the ticking, have you checked the steering shaft seal?
https://www.tundras.com/threads/diy-steering-shaft-seal.48664/

 

Ticky is hard to explain....but its not so much the valves are noisy, IMO, its that at idle the engine is so quiet that all you really hear is the valves ticking above the dull rumble of the engine.

 

For Trans. I did do that but something in me just doesn't like it. In my mind its just falling out. I got a decent amount coming out, yes sure its possible i over filled. But my mind hates that.

Is there a possibility for there to be a reason not to trust that check plug? I had Mickey mouse in here working so im just wondering. What causes my doubt is a saw a video where there's like a removable straw inside the pan but perhaps that's a diff toyo engine. If you guys feel that this is definitely the way to go I'll go ahead and let it finishing taper off at temp.

For ticky tick. I have heard of the seal. Given what I have done so far. I am leaning towards doing that. But I sure as hell hear it outside the car too. I'll YouTube up some normal 2uzfe engine sounds. Maybe I'm so used to driving quieter cars. But I Def hear it.

 

.. And the injectors. For S&G I tossed our kid's stethoscope on one while running, the ticking followed the rhythm and it seems the injectors are making just as much tick as anything.

Appreciate that update, it's an interesting one for diagnostics later, one more thing to cause no-spark... I don't see that info in the DSM/FSM.

Did you install an OEM part? I'm surprised the sender would be failing already if OEM, doesn't make sense. Should take at least 10+ years to flake.

LKQ, really? Two places you don't want to screw with non-OEM: Anything electrical-related (starter, alt, fuel pump, etc), anything suspension related (ball joints, spindles, CV axles, etc).

OEM part is likely expensive on this, but what others have found is that the non-OEM parts seem to have the right fittings with the wrong threading, or different fittings with the right threading. YMMV. Lots of aggravation can be found on here by those who've had to replace PS hoses.

Is it binding in the e-brake assembly, or internal to the drum, or do you know? I helped @bamdone source parts for replacing his e-brake assembly, as seen in this post. Happy to help you hunt that down if needed. Just need to know what cab you've got, since I'm not immediately seeing it anywhere in your posts (that's a pretty critical detail, since DCs are more related to Sequoia than AC and RC)

See appropriate video here: https://www.tundras.com/threads/is-...smission-fluid-important.115675/#post-2975437

This video is another someone posted recently that is maybe a little more palatable to watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej_6BZpK3gg

 

darn. well it had no problem multiple starts last night and going around while warmed up. starting cold today i was hit with SAIS codes again. this i think is why i did the bypass in the first place.... the pump is new but i cant remember if oem or not i would need to dig, the tube to pump is new oem , the valves are new oem, the gaskets are new oem.

what i noticed is the 2 smaller tubes mounted on the two sensors going back to the rear valves may have a bit of play in them. if they are not getting the proper signal because its not getting vaccuum then may the issue is there? im gonna cut it a little short and re apply. they have not clamps

p0418
p2445

cant recall, but it was just the pump and gasket i replaced, not the whole assembly so the old rheostat/fluid level sensor was still there. maybe it got a bit corroded being in an empty tank for so long? either way, low on the totem pole rn.

sorry thats what the recycle chains called down here, its used oem but it has miles on it thats for sure.

cant remember from 2 years ago but it was likely the ebrake assembly if i had to guess. its DC

 

I have LKQ near me too, https://www.lkqonline.com/ and also https://www.lkqcorp.com/

They run pull-a-part yards IIRC but also reman misc parts, and resell others. Maybe it's diff't where you are.

 

Ok. Baby is fussy today and the wife is out shopping. So not much troubleshooting time.

Focusing on the sais for now. I'm reading the Fsm, I don't have an oscilloscope so I cant get too crazy.

So far. Airpump fuse is good.

the solenoids going to the Valves are opening and closing when voltage is applied w a battery. I'm sensing voltage at the connectors when car cold starts on both valves. Vacuum is present. Good valves. New pump.

I see there is a controller for the pump. Im trying to see if there is a way to test the pump and send power to it to hear it on.

 

No your right. Same place. They do have alot of aftermarket. I use for pick a part mechanical. I do think of them for aftermarket body.

 

update - sais code is gone. maybe something loose? baby is a go!!

i have almost all the I/m readiness to get it smogged out here in cali. just waiting on evap - i had a full tank.