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No effing trans cooler?! I'm out Toyota

Discussion in '3rd Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by Berettafan, Nov 14, 2020.

  1. Jan 12, 2021 at 4:37 AM
    #691
    Bammer

    Bammer I'm disinclined to acquiesce your request.

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    Specs say there is, but it refers to the puck, not an actual cooler mounted behind the grill like most associate .
     
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  2. Jan 12, 2021 at 4:39 AM
    #692
    Moon Puppy

    Moon Puppy I'm not new!

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    Not any that I work with!
     
  3. Jan 12, 2021 at 4:43 AM
    #693
    Huntv

    Huntv New Member

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    I hear they're the best!
     
  4. Jan 12, 2021 at 4:45 AM
    #694
    Tundra234

    Tundra234 New Member

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    Alot of them
    For reference, pic #1 is a cooler (thermostat) that you would have (after adding it) along with a cooler in front of the radiator. Pic #2 is just a spacer, which is what the 2019+ has.

    Screenshot_20210112-074233_Chrome.jpg
     
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  5. Jan 12, 2021 at 5:28 AM
    #695
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    Tone it down...thats over 9000!
     
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  6. Jan 12, 2021 at 5:47 AM
    #696
    akmerle

    akmerle New Member

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    They got their degrees from the same place as internet doctors who claim they know better because they watched a YouTube video / read it on Reddit / heard it on a message board from a guy who knows a guy.
     
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  7. Jan 12, 2021 at 5:54 AM
    #697
    timsp8

    timsp8 Member

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  8. Jan 12, 2021 at 6:12 AM
    #698
    Kung

    Kung Not so FNG

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    I present to the board...my haiku.

    Transmission cooler
    Or no transmission cooler
    IDGAF
     
  9. Jan 12, 2021 at 6:19 AM
    #699
    akmerle

    akmerle New Member

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    And that is one “engineer” out of how many? What is his exact role?

    That is also his opinion / belief based on his observations / findings. I am sure there are many other engineers working on that same issue who have a differing belief with similar data that also backs up their conclusion.

    As an engineer I see differing points of view during my design meetings every time. As a team we choose the most sound engineering decision based on a multitude of data, and given whatever design constraints we may have. I don’t want unanimous decisions, I want critical thought and analysis.

    Given Toyota’s track record of unrivaled reliability, they have rightly earned the benefit of the doubt that their design and engineering process as a whole works...... just like the model year 2019+ transmission works as designed..... and since there is literally zero evidence to the contrary.
     
  10. Jan 12, 2021 at 6:23 AM
    #700
    Bammer

    Bammer I'm disinclined to acquiesce your request.

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    haiku
    [ˈhīˌko͞o]
    NOUN
    1. a Japanese poem of seventeen syllables, in three lines of five, seven, and five, traditionally evoking images of the natural world.
     
  11. Jan 12, 2021 at 6:27 AM
    #701
    Sumo91

    Sumo91 Somewhat new member

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    How to TRUELY test the trans without a cooler

    Whats needed

    1. Rich/wealthy person to buy a new tundra to donate to Whistlindiesel for use

    2. Tell him his only objective is to try and destroy the transmission by means of driving the dog shit out of it, towing ridiculous stuff, and resist the urge to destroy it completely beyond driving anymore before the transmission fails

    3. Watch and cringe/enjoy the carnage

    4. Make thread about what he is doing

    5. De rail thread from original transmission durability test that he is performing to complain about how he put an axe through the door

    6. Stonks
     
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  12. Jan 12, 2021 at 6:30 AM
    #702
    timsp8

    timsp8 Member

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    I agree with you, man. I fully trust the Toyota engineers that designed the cam tower sealant, picked the fuel pump, front diff bearing, rear diff seal. Even entune is my favorite system to use for the radio.
     
  13. Jan 12, 2021 at 6:32 AM
    #703
    Kung

    Kung Not so FNG

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    It's got 17 syllables, though it's not about the natural world, I suppose. LOL
     
  14. Jan 12, 2021 at 6:38 AM
    #704
    John175

    John175 Not Sure

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    The real internet Toyota engineer? Don't know him, don't know anything about him, read his perception of "the why" Toyota did it.

    I work with engineers all the time in another industry. Engineers are in silos and when their opinion is not followed they get upset.

    To be honest I read his opinion as a warning to not buy any Toyota product because engineer instructions are not being followed.

    ***I have purchased all the required OEM Toyota external cooler add parts and I am considering adding the cooler.
     
  15. Jan 12, 2021 at 6:43 AM
    #705
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    You missed AIP & rear axle bearings...:rofl:
     
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  16. Jan 12, 2021 at 6:48 AM
    #706
    timsp8

    timsp8 Member

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    Good call. As far as discussion, I don’t think we will ever definitively know one way or the other. But if I had a 19+ I’d probably add one. I’m not going to get worked up over how other people spend their money and mod their truck. I know I’ve spent way too much on my truck, but it’s my hobby. Every time my wife complains, I tell her I could go out and buy a motorcycle instead and how they are dangerous they are.

    Seems peoples minds are made up, so it comes down to its your money and your risk that the dealer might give you trouble for your warranty if the trans goes out.
     
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  17. Jan 12, 2021 at 6:58 AM
    #707
    Oey12

    Oey12 New Member

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    None yet...
    I honestly have to ask one question though...and its truly not meant to be provocative or a put down to you. Why buy the Tundra at all? The technology is down right archaic. The drivetrain, motor, electronics, and generally speaking the Tundra is quite possibly the oldest platform amongst mainstream manufacturers. It’s okay that you don’t trust Toyota engineers but you still bought a Freddie Flintstone truck according to today’s standard. So I would have to argue that the Toyota engineers are doing the vast majority of of things correctly with a few exceptions. WE ALL work hard for our money here but we still choose to spend our cash on the Tundra and not on a Ford’s, Chevy’s, or Ram’s engineering.
     
  18. Jan 12, 2021 at 7:00 AM
    #708
    Terndrerrr

    Terndrerrr it's good to get lost once in a while

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    As @timsp8 pointed out, while Toyota does seem to be the last automaker designing vehicles to last longer than 3-5 years and 150k miles, their track record isn’t pristine, and there are several cases of enduring design faults worthy of criticism.

    Regarding your work as an engineer, is your team’s engineering decision always supported by your employer? Every time? Or are there other factors that sometimes overrule your conclusion?

    The anonymous engineer’s role is that of being directly involved with the trans cooler debacle as COTJ put it. That reduces the “out of how many” number drastically. Their decision to install a cooler on their own truck was based on a data set that includes “defects in trucks for overheated fluid”. “Pinching pennies from a value engineering standpoint” is how they described it. Unless you’re saying this person is not actually an engineer directly involved with the trans cooler as COTJ pointed out I don’t understand why this doesn’t carry weight.

    Toyota has been fixing cam towers under warranty for how many years? Yet, they have done exactly nothing to preventatively fix the issue. Why not? Because it’s obviously not worth it to them to do so. Engineers aren’t the final arbiters in decisions made by the company as a whole, even when they are putting out a design with a known flaw for years and years in a row.
     
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  19. Jan 12, 2021 at 7:06 AM
    #709
    timsp8

    timsp8 Member

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    I’m actually on my 2nd tundra. I didn’t say I don’t trust the Toyota engineers. I just don’t buy in to the idea that they are perfect and make all their decisions in favor of the consumer. I understand there are higher ups that are also making decisions based on profit. Engineers make mistakes too.

    If you read my post above yours, I don’t think we will ever definitively know if a cooler is needed and I don’t care one way or the other if people are adding the cooler with their own money. Some say there are good atf analysis results. Some say their atf light came on driving up a mount slowly.

    I also never meant to imply Toyota doesn’t have the best reliability. When my warranty runs out in 2025, the only thing that might keep me from my 3rd tundra would be the payload. Hopefully they’ll raise it in the new 2022 model.

    Can we turn this in to a 2022 tundra speculation thread?

    6C4FF149-E23B-4E70-A5E8-B6CD91F60BDB.jpg
    C293307B-5DA7-489C-B86A-7C0A956127AB.jpg

    Sorry, got off topic.
     
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  20. Jan 12, 2021 at 7:15 AM
    #710
    Oey12

    Oey12 New Member

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    True no engineer or manufacturer is perfect...

    But you hit nail on the head with a off topic post..here’s to you brother :cheers:
    We all need a little breather on this including myself :hattip:
     
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  21. Jan 12, 2021 at 7:16 AM
    #711
    Bammer

    Bammer I'm disinclined to acquiesce your request.

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    :rofl:
     
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  22. Jan 12, 2021 at 7:16 AM
    #712
    Terndrerrr

    Terndrerrr it's good to get lost once in a while

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    Speaking for myself, I bought it because it’s still the best half ton out there. I didn’t buy it for the features and tech. I think I have a better chance of getting to 300k+ miles trouble free. The Tundra’s known issues are still relatively fewer and further between than other half tons.

    I love my truck. I also don’t feel the need to defend Toyota with hypotheses regarding how they might have come to a decision to remove something that definitely saved them money when (1) people are documenting overheating messages on 2019+ trucks from normal use and (2) when when one engineer (again I stress NOT acting in a public relations capacity on behalf of Toyota) said it was a bad move based on penny pinching. I guess #2 comes down to trusting the source, which I do.

    One can love their Tundra and simultaneously criticize Toyota for decisions that fly in the face of their reputation for long term reliability.

    Here’s some more math. Say Toyota only saved $500/truck for deleting the cooler. At 100k trucks sold/yr, that’s pocketing $50M. Say they’re right, that most people only use their truck to drive to and from work. Say out of the Tundra drivers who tow/haul a lot, most of them have no issues before they trade the truck in. Say 100 trucks per year have catastrophic transmission failures due to running extremely high temps. Even if that happens under warranty (which we all doubt very highly), say they spend $5k installing new transmissions on each of those trucks. That’s only spending $500k.

    Spending $500k in repairs vs saving $50M in parts each year. :notsure:

    Edited to add: Toyota knows they don’t need to have a perfect reputation for reliability. Just need to stay ahead of the pack, which they still are.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
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  23. Jan 12, 2021 at 7:18 AM
    #713
    timsp8

    timsp8 Member

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    Also my first tundra went through 2 transmissions. First one went out at around 59k. Second one was remanufactured and constantly ran hot. It went out at around 110k just after I traded it in. I traded cause I could tell it was going out too. This was a 2010 with the factory cooler in the condenser.
     
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  24. Jan 12, 2021 at 7:29 AM
    #714
    Melikeymy beer

    Melikeymy beer No cooler for you!

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    My wife would tell me to get a really fast one and not to waste money on a helmet.
     
  25. Jan 12, 2021 at 7:40 AM
    #715
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    True love right there!
     
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  26. Jan 12, 2021 at 8:00 AM
    #716
    John175

    John175 Not Sure

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    Blissful summertime
    A brownish transmission burns
    into the fluid
     
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  27. Jan 12, 2021 at 8:32 AM
    #717
    Bammer

    Bammer I'm disinclined to acquiesce your request.

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    [​IMG]
     
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  28. Jan 12, 2021 at 8:38 AM
    #718
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Mother-Loving Member

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    Now I'm curious when the statement that the Tundra is not designed for towing was written into the owner's manual. Was it added in 2019 in conjunction with the removal of the cooler or was it there all along?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
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  29. Jan 12, 2021 at 8:43 AM
    #719
    Kung

    Kung Not so FNG

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    Updated just for Bammer:

    Coolers? How about
    Beer cooler talk instead, and
    Flowers for Bammer.

    How's that? :p
     
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  30. Jan 12, 2021 at 8:51 AM
    #720
    Saltyhero13

    Saltyhero13 Throbbing Member

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    New parts bolted on
    Are the trannys hot or not?
    Drag race judges score.
     
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