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Need help deciding on TT for cross country trip

Discussion in 'Towing & Hauling' started by dirtcheap, Oct 16, 2020.

  1. Oct 16, 2020 at 11:21 PM
    #1
    dirtcheap

    dirtcheap [OP] New Member

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    2019 DC SR5 TRD and tow package 5.7 liter

    1320 payload - 700 lbs in people and aftermarket
    (hollow yoda nerf bars, cheap vynal tonneau cover, spray in bed liner, 25lb car seat, TRD package was 60lbs I think+ 400 lbs of people)

    620 lbs left for trailer tongue weight(approx)

    2 adults and 2 smallish kids 9 and 6 years old

    Looking at midsize bunk house trailers, would like to use a 1000/10000 Equal-i-er wdh.

    I used to pull whatever all the time with my old chevys and fords and never even thought much about it. This is my first truck in 15 years and now with a family trying to be safe and whatnot. Here is what I have narrowed it down to in order of most favored to least. Cold (Southern MO to TN) weather is also a factor and 4 season or even 3 season would be great. Tongue weights are all over the place. I might have to stay in the trailer (with full hookups) over the winter into March so if you have any experience with any of these please give me your opinions.



    1. Lance 2185 - (super heavy dry hitch weight but overall light trailer)
    https://www.lancecamper.com/travel-trailers/2185/specs/

    2. Airstream 25fb Twin (the only bunk is a 30' so that was out)
    https://www.airstream.com/travel-trailers/international/specifications/?floorplans=25fb-twin

    3. Keystone Bullet 243BHSWE
    https://www.keystonerv.com/product-finder/compare/?l=3765

    4. Imagine XLS 23BHE
    https://www.granddesignrv.com/showroom/2021/travel-trailer/imagine-xls/floorplans/23bhe#specs

    5.North Trail 24 BHS
    https://heartlandrvs.com/travel-trailers/north-trail.html#floorplans
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
    degs likes this.
  2. Oct 17, 2020 at 1:41 AM
    #2
    buddyrd

    buddyrd New Member

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    So many people focus in GVWR and CGVWR. Great that you're focusing on payload. Lots of people tow illegally and don't know it. I'm not saying they're not being safe, but if any parameter is over and you're involved in an accident, your insurance company may walk away. I think in the 25' and less category, a good weight distribution hitch will keep you in good shape.
     
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  3. Oct 17, 2020 at 6:59 AM
    #3
    frichco228

    frichco228 Valued Member

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    As long as your TT loaded tongue weight is within spec with your payload you are good to go. Ive have always like the Imagine brand and what they offer.
     
  4. Oct 17, 2020 at 8:42 AM
    #4
    A-A-Ron

    A-A-Ron Done messed up

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    I have an Imagine 2800BH. I like it overall but the heater during the winter isn't ideal. We did a trip last February that got below freezing at night. The front of the trailer by the furnace stayed warm but the back by the bunks was very cold. Had to buy an electric heater to put by the bathroom and it balanced it out. Might not be as big of an issue on the XLS since it’s shorter though.

    I work with a guy that just bought a Lance, they are really built well but definitely much more expensive than the Imagines. Airstreams always seem so cramped to me without a slide-out.
     
  5. Oct 17, 2020 at 8:45 AM
    #5
    shawn474

    shawn474 New Member

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    We have a hybrid - not ideal for 4 season travel due to the tent ends. I have had many different trailers. My advice would be to make sure it has a slide out if you’re going to be living in it long term. The extra floor space especially with a 9 year old and 6 year old is great. And don’t rule out used - many people buy these things and never use them. Paying retail for a trailer can be a monumental depreciating commodity.
     
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  6. Oct 17, 2020 at 9:33 AM
    #6
    sbxx312

    sbxx312 New Member

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    I vote Airstream. We have a 2003 22' International that we bought in 2013. If I ever sell it, which I won't, I'll get more for it than I paid.
     
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  7. Oct 17, 2020 at 9:52 AM
    #7
    dirtcheap

    dirtcheap [OP] New Member

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    Thanks everyone for the replies so far.

    The Airstream is tempting me and I have read that they stay pretty warm (maybe do to the alum construction and sound deadening material used?). The lack of floor space and bunks is what keeps me from pulling the trigger.

    I used to have a hybrid, a 2007 Starcraft Travel Star and we loved it, my kids were just babies and pulled it with 5.7 liter jeep grand cherokee. Was a great summer TT.

    Cannot find a lance in-stock anywhere and both the keystone and imagine are both low stock at least in Cali atm.

    I would love to buy used but prices are jacked up (in SoCal) right now as high demand is present.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  8. Oct 17, 2020 at 10:20 AM
    #8
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment I am a man of constant sorrow

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    My parents in law really liked Lance when they were looking at trailers about 6 years ago but they couldn't justify the price so they got a Forest River Rockwood Mini Lite instead. Their only complaints so far are related to the particular size and layout they chose, rather than build quality or anything like that.
     
  9. Oct 17, 2020 at 11:51 AM
    #9
    Netmonkey

    Netmonkey Don't be a Dumbass

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    GVWR is used in calculating payload :p

    To the OP, the first 3 trailers have way too much tongue weight for your truck. The last 2 will be close. Keep in mind that the manufacturer's listed dry tongue weight does not include the battery or propane tanks (except on the airstream and that had a 837 pound hitch weight). The grand design has the lowest hitch weight... and you still might be over.

    504 hitch weight
    20 pounds for the battery
    40 pounds for the propane
    100 pounds for the WDH
    that's 664 pounds before you load any cargo.

    If you want to know your true payload, go fill up your truck with gas and get it weighed at a truck scale. payload = GVWR minus truck weight.

    Good luck :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
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  10. Oct 17, 2020 at 12:05 PM
    #10
    knoxville36

    knoxville36 New Member

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    I would take any one of those trailers! Those are nice!!!! You may stand a chance with the Grand Design to make payload weight but you will have to pack light and a lot of weight in the back of the travel trailer.

    I hate to say it, but with my Tundra if a travel trailer has 2 axles, probably not going to make payload is sort of my motto.

    Not saying the Tundra can't pull any one of those, it can. You just will not be able to do it "legally".

    May not matter to you, but one of the reasons I am entertaining a 3/4 ton gasser at the moment also.
     
    Netmonkey likes this.
  11. Oct 17, 2020 at 12:32 PM
    #11
    Bama Tundra

    Bama Tundra New Member

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    Guys, I'm in the same situation. Looking at travel trailers & found the one we like. At 6400lbs I'm sure my tundra would pull it fine. But probably not legally. So started looking at smaller trailers, couldn't find one we liked so now I'm looking at 3/4 ton trucks. But I really like my tundra. What's the major difference in the tundra compared to say an F150 with an ecoboost? My father in law pulls a 9900lb trailer with his F150,& says he's legal. It doesn't look like it to me but I'm no expert on figuring what you can & cant tow
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  12. Oct 17, 2020 at 2:07 PM
    #12
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment I am a man of constant sorrow

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    I suspect the big difference is the aluminum body (if he has a 2014+). If both your trucks have a GVWR of 7200 lbs (for example; I'm not exactly sure what the Fords have) but his weighs 500 lbs less than yours, that translates directly to 500 lbs more payload for him.

    Or he's just looking at the towing capacity and doesn't realize he's over his payload/ GVWR.
     
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  13. Oct 17, 2020 at 3:21 PM
    #13
    dirtcheap

    dirtcheap [OP] New Member

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    Hmm...you guys are bumming me out. This truck seems pretty worthless if my neighbors v6 chevy colorado can pull bigger trailers than mine. I bought it as a secondary truck to pull a flatbed with motorcycles on it but man it really sucks as a TT towing vehicle. I was tempted by the ford but I hear people singing the praises of Tundras and they seem to have a good reliability rating. Feel kinda like they pulled a fast one on me.

    So on the "What are you pulling today threads on this forum" looks to me everyone pulling trailers in the 21' to 26' range are at least 100 lbs over tongue weight, and it would seem the truck has no issues doing it. That tells me this is mostly a numbers issue, causing mental gymnastics that some people take to task and others do not in the end I guess. The truck either can pull these loads well or it does not.

    The Lance 2185 for example, seems like its numbers are skewed somehow. How can the hitch dry weight be so high for such a low gross dry weight? Wheels are further to the back? If the Lance is fully loaded at 7000 lbs the truck would still be way under tow rating at 9900 lbs according to my manual. So is Toyota at fault when I crash cause the brakes fail on a 10 percent grade cause the payload numbers don't work out?

    Seems travel trailers have experienced some bloat over the years and Tundras numbers are fudged one direction or another.

    Maybe I bought the wrong truck:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  14. Oct 17, 2020 at 3:23 PM
    #14
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment I am a man of constant sorrow

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    What makes you think the Colorado can pull more than a Tundra?

    There was a guy on here a while back who thought the F150 was superior in every way to the Tundra except when it came to towing. He found the Tundra to be a better tow vehicle. You just have to be aware of its limitations.
     
  15. Oct 17, 2020 at 3:26 PM
    #15
    sbxx312

    sbxx312 New Member

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    Don't be bummed out. Your Tundra will pull your trailer just fine.
     
  16. Oct 17, 2020 at 3:34 PM
    #16
    Netmonkey

    Netmonkey Don't be a Dumbass

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    The Tundra is an old platform. The existing payload numbers used to be competitive to the big 3. Newer generations of the big 3 have constantly been improving their payload and capacity numbers, but their quality is no where near where the Tundra is at. Payload is the Tundra's Achilles heal, but I think you are right, many Tundra owners are pulling the larger trailers without consideration or knowledge of their numbers. If you knowingly are over payload while pulling a trailer and get into an accident, that is your fault, not Toyota's. Also, your insurance company can deny your claim if they find out that you were over payload. The Tundra can carry over its' payload numbers, but that is a risk that you will have to consider. I hope that Toyota re-enters the 3/4-ton and 1-ton market like they did in the '80s.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1bVH2gT5Mo
     
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  17. Oct 17, 2020 at 3:45 PM
    #17
    dirtcheap

    dirtcheap [OP] New Member

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    Let me ask you guys this. Since a couple of you mentioned legalities. I just found this pdf with official numbers. My 2019 configuration has a combined tow rating of
    GCWTR = 16,000 lbs
    Max Towing = 9,900 lbs
    Max Tongue = 990 lbs

    If if we play by the payload rules these figures are all completely impossible unless I drive alone in a completely empty truck with basically no fuel in the tank. If for legal reasons we get in wrecks and insurance starts to question this stuff wouldn't we be in the clear if all three categories above are complaint? Seems troubling to me that a full size truck, even an older platform is ham-stringed so much but advertised as a monster tow vehicle.

    I guess it's down to my personal comfort level in the end.
     
  18. Oct 17, 2020 at 3:46 PM
    #18
    2018TundraLimited

    2018TundraLimited New Member

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    I have the Grand Design Imagine 23bhe. I went to the CAT scales and got everything weighed on our first trip so I could dial in my WDH. Here are some numbers that hopefully will help you.
    These numbers include a full fresh water tank, full propane tanks, full tank of gas in the truck, and our gear to camp for 4 days in the trailer. We didn’t pack a bunch of things and that’s why I filled the fresh water tank so I could get a better idea.

    Truck GVRW = 7200 lbs
    Trailer weight = 6400 lbs
    Tongue weight without WDH hooked up = 680 lbs
    Tongue weight with WDH = 500lbs

    With the trailer connected and my 50 lb son and I in the truck there was 260 lbs of payload left.
    The trailer has been great aside from a few issues that have been fixed already. My WDH is a blue ox sway pro that has been good so far and easy to adjust.
    Hope this helps.
     
    Netmonkey likes this.
  19. Oct 17, 2020 at 3:50 PM
    #19
    Bama Tundra

    Bama Tundra New Member

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    I'll have to check on the tongue weight of the 6400 lb trailer we want to purchase. Would y'all buy it & just be cautious. I can retire, but I'm only 51 & don't know what I would do every day. That's where the trailer comes into the picture. Traveling & seeing places. We haven't been out of the south. Like I said I LOVE my tundra. Bought it new, it's an 18 crew max limited 4x4. 2 & 1/2 years old & only has 15k miles on it. I have a company 18 F150 4x4 crew cab with a 5.0 that I drive home, & I was already driving the F150 when I purchased my tundra & I didn't even consider looking at an F150 for my personal truck. I look forward to getting home & parking it & needing to go somewhere so I can drive my tundra
     
  20. Oct 17, 2020 at 3:53 PM
    #20
    Azblue

    Azblue Beer is Good

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    A full tank of fuel is already included in the payload. I'm somewhere in the middle of this discussion. I don't like seeing obviously overloaded trucks, but at the same time I'm not going to freak out about being 100 lbs over payload.
     
  21. Oct 17, 2020 at 3:54 PM
    #21
    dirtcheap

    dirtcheap [OP] New Member

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    Wow that is great info, you might have just decided my trailer purchase. Thanks man.
     
  22. Oct 17, 2020 at 3:58 PM
    #22
    Bama Tundra

    Bama Tundra New Member

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    Sounds like your trailer is a lot like the one we are wanting to purchase. Our trucks are alike too, any problems pulling, stopping, handling the trailer?
     
  23. Oct 17, 2020 at 4:06 PM
    #23
    2018TundraLimited

    2018TundraLimited New Member

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    I have never towed anything other than a small utility trailer before this travel trailer so I don’t have much to compare to but I haven’t had any problems. I drove the trailer home 180 miles from the dealer and other than the push and pull of tractor trailers when they pass you I felt confident in the setup.
     
  24. Oct 17, 2020 at 4:10 PM
    #24
    2018TundraLimited

    2018TundraLimited New Member

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    No problem
     
  25. Oct 17, 2020 at 4:33 PM
    #25
    Netmonkey

    Netmonkey Don't be a Dumbass

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    no, it is not. payload is a calculation. payload = GVWR minus truck weight. There is no "included weight" in that calculation.
     
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  26. Oct 17, 2020 at 4:40 PM
    #26
    Maadcaap

    Maadcaap White Tundys

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    have you had the chance to look at the trailers in person? I was set on the lance 2185 after a month of shopping and research.. and then my wife walked into the 2285... we love our new 2285 lol.... lance is gret trailer and very well built.. we decided to go with a well built brand because we take it out camping at least 10 trips a year...

    I would have went with an airstream if i could afford it..
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  27. Oct 17, 2020 at 4:57 PM
    #27
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment I am a man of constant sorrow

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    I honestly think it's the same for all manufacturers. No way can an F150 actually tow 14,000 lbs safely, even if the tongue weight was somehow not over the payload capacity.
     
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  28. Oct 17, 2020 at 5:03 PM
    #28
    Azblue

    Azblue Beer is Good

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    I agree with you. What I'm saying is in a general sense, the sticker on the truck reflects that already. Sure, not as accurate as actually weighing it, but what it's listed as. A quick copy and paste from a Google search:

    Payload is stated on the door sticker and includes everything your vehicle left the factory with, and a full tank of fuel. Anything beyond that, including a driver or accessories must be deducted from payload
     
  29. Oct 17, 2020 at 5:52 PM
    #29
    knoxville36

    knoxville36 New Member

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    I am not an expert, am not sure of this....

    We have weights where I work as we weigh every single dump truck as they come and go..... About 100 trucks a day cross that scale. It is calibrated and guaranteed to be within 15 pounds. It is deadly accurate.

    I have weighed my truck multiple times. With me in it, out of it, full tank, gas light on....

    My truck is bone stock. With me out of it, the truck weighs 300 lbs. more than what is listed in Toyota's site.

    Trucks come to dealership with barely enough fuel in them to drive them off the transport truck.
     
  30. Oct 17, 2020 at 6:18 PM
    #30
    The Dude

    The Dude New Member

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    This is what I'm pulling with my 2012 CM 4x4 Tow Package and air bags. I've only towed it on a 340 mile round trip, mostly flat land and it did ok. Transmission temp needle didn't move at all. I am considering getting a diesel though. MPG was pretty shitty too lol

    https://www.jayco.com/tools/archive/2018-jay-flight/28bhbe/

    A05BB13D-4501-4397-86C6-3FC6FF08696A.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020

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