Mayo or butter on the outside of your grilled cheese?

Sometimes it’s helpful to just click the ‘ignore’ tab.
On my website, I explained this in my opening blurb. Plus I put links to both ‘pattern welded’ and ‘Damascus’ steel.
I first started doing this in the ‘70’s.

The problem with this kind of stupid argument is it like saying Kleenex isn’t Kleenex, it’s really just tissue paper.

Don’t waste your time with this discussion.

 

No, this is more like taking some cardboard and calling it Kleenex.

 

Analogies are not your strong point.

 

I’m done, just hit ignore

 

Anyway...


I think I might do a grilled cheese sandwich when I get off work in the morning. I wonder if I have any bean with bacon soup in the pantry?

 

Yeah. Because selling pattern welded steel under the "damascus" label works. People buy it up.

It's the very same reason so many people in this forum think they need X amount of lift to fit Y size tires. And why so many suspension companies advertise their product being able to fit Y size tires on your truck. When the reality is that is all nonsense. On an IFS truck, lift height has nothing to do with what size tires you can fit. Not unless you are going to lift the truck 14 inches and ride on top of your tires and never stuff them into the wheel well. Yet here we are with that many ignorant customers and lift kit manufacturers.

Not sure why everybody is getting so worked up about this. It is just a simple fact.

 

Don’t forget about the tomato and avocados!

 

Shortened this thread up a good bit.

 

It's a pretty good analogy. A piece of cardboard is not kleenex just like pattern welded is not damascus.

 

I tried one with tomato for @Jim LE 1301, and while edible it's not my first choice. Avocados are only good for guacamole. Can't do the texture.

 

Butter or mayo?

Never mind.
You’d probably phuk that up too.

Move along little doggy.

 

Already answered that.

And really, all I did was say that knife wasn't damascus. Then everybody cried.

 

You’re right, every knife manufacturer is wrong.
We get it.

Thanks.

You should be able to fondle yourself later just thinking about how you’re smarter than everyone.


P.S. you’re not smarter than everyone.

 

The sad thing is that the history of wootz crucible steel is really fascinating. The development of pattern steel goes way back before the ‘70’s too.
There’s way too much talking from people that want to hear themselves but never listen.

 

Never said I was.

I also never said it was "every" knife manufacturer. Some are honest and don't advertise their pattern welded knives as damascus. Because it isn't.

 

Yeah yeah… you don’t eat bread or cheese or mayo or butter or …

you must be a blast at parties.

fify

 

Some people have trouble making friends and can’t understand why

 

I never said that pattern welded steel started in the 70s. I said that is when people started calling it "damascus".

If you are going to disagree with me, at least disagree with what I actually say rather than some nonsense you are attributing to me.

And I am listening. It is just that nobody has actually said anything that refutes my claims.

 

No, I eat plenty of cheese and butter and real mayo.

See? You aren't even paying attention to what I say, but you are all offended anyway.

 

Grilled cheese.
Mmmm good.

 

Sorry about that. Next time I'll just pretend to agree with everything somebody says, even if its wrong, in the desperate hope that they might like me.

 

It's not that you disagree. It's that you are being condescending. You're not having a conversation, you are preaching/lecturing. We disagree about stuff on here all the time, but how you do it is what counts.

 

I'm not doing any of that. All I did was state an opinion and then defend that opinion with facts. Any preaching/lecturing/condescending that you think is in my comments exists entirely in your imagination.

 

Why do you seem to think we’re offended?
We debated a point.
Then made some rebuttals that were backed by facts AND A KNIFE MAKER, then you just continued to repeat yourself.
Everyone else moved along.
We even interjected humor.
Yet you’re still repeating yourself.

Who’s offended?
Maybe, you.

Weird.

 

You. Since you are asking.

Particularly when you started saying things like "Thanks for the dumb, irrelevant comment" and then saying my comments are "drivel". If this is the "humor" you were interjecting, you need to work on that. Humor is supposed to be funny.

See those are personal attacks, not coherent and logical refutations of my claims, and not humor.

Also, I am also a knife maker. It isn't difficult to become a knife maker. It isn't like you need to pass a history class or a course on metallurgy to do so. And I am in no way discrediting the quality of this knife maker's work or making any claims about his personality or his reputation. I've got the forge, the anvil, the 1095 blanks, etc.

All I am saying is that despite the common usage, that knife in the picture is not damascus steel. It is pattern welded steel. And I fully understand that a lot of people use those words interchangeably, but they do so incorrectly. Either because they just don't know, or they are lying. And if it is every single knife maker than says otherwise, then yes, I am calling every single knife maker wrong. Wrong is wrong, no matter how many people think it isn't.

I am repeating myself because people are misrepresenting what I said.

And no. I am not offended. I am just mildly annoyed at the fact that you and several others got so heated about it.

 

The reality, @Kur is that you do not get to define Damascus for an entire industry, the globe, or humanity in general. The basis for Damascus steel from history is the patterning. Look into the root words and the fact that "real" Damascus steel is also called Persian watered steel, and we can go into all kinds of rabbit holes. Damascus steel, even in the original times, was a label given by westerners to the blades/steel that had the pattern and were frequently seen in Damascus.

To get super technical, as you are attempting to do, the "proper" names for these two types of steel would be Wootz Damascus Steel, and Pattern Welded Damascus Steel. For sake of simplicity it is completely acceptable to just say Damascus Steel as it is still technically correct. In today's world it is actually MORE accurate to say Damascus Steel when referring to pattern welded steel than it is for Wootz Steel, because the rarity of Wootz makes it the least likely thing to be the topic of conversation. At best you can say there is original and modern Damascus Steel. Different, but still technically correct when generically referred to as Damascus steel.



To attempt to say otherwise, is in fact, stating that you believe that you are THE preeminent expert on the subject and know more about it that anyone else. Is that your assertion?


To use an analogy, as you seem to be fond of them, what you are doing is akin to fans of Corvettes saying the newest C8 mid engine Corvette isn't a "real" Corvette because it's different than the previous generations that were all front engine Corvettes. Well, I think they misused the label, it looks like a euro car, and I wish they hadn't done it, but that doesn't change the FACT that it IS a Corvette. Different, yes, but still a Corvette. Same goes for modern Damascus steel.

 

I got hungry just reading this. Double up on the Kraft cheese, mix Mayo and butter on the outside plus a piece of celery to make it healthy

 

1. I'm not defining anything. I am just relaying what has already been defined.

2. There were other properties, far more desirable properties, that people sought out true damascus steel for besides just the water pattern. If it was JUST the pattern and no other benefits, it would not have been nearly as sought after and famous as it was, because as somebody else pointed out, pattern welded steel has existed for a very long time. Even longer than damascus. People drew a distinction between the two types of steel and sought out damascus blades over pattern welded blades.

3. No. The proper names are wootz OR damascus, and then pattern welded. The improper name is pattern welded damascus.

4. I agree. Actual wootz/damascus is very rare. But that doesn't mean we can just take its name and assign it to something else.

5. No. me saying otherwise is not me saying I am the preeminent expert. That is an incredibly ridiculous thing to say. In fact, by saying that, you are saying that anybody who disagrees with anything is making the claim that they are the preeminent expert. Since you disagree with me about what damascus steel is, does that mean YOU are claiming to be the preeminent expert?

6. Your analogy fails on its face because of the generational changes that are intrinsic to the automobile industry. Modern pattern welded steel is not a new generation of damascus steel. It is just a different type of steel that bears a vague superficial resemblance, and once again, predates damascus steel. To modify your own analogy, you claiming that pattern welded steel is damascus steel is like saying that a dodge viper is a corvette because somebody glued corvette badges to it. It kinda looks like a corvette, but it doesn't function or perform like a corvette, it wasn't made in the same factory, from the same parts or by the same people, and no matter how many people say it is a corvette, that doesn't change the fact that it isn't. Superficial visual similarities aren't enough to call two entirely different steels the same thing. The chemical makeup and very structure of damascus steel and pattern welded steel are entirely different. They couldn't be more different without being entirely different metals.

 

I am not claiming there is no difference between pattern welded Damascus and Wootz Damascus. No one here is making that assertion. The defining characteristics are different, but the commonality of patterns earns the Damascus moniker. Yes, different properties, yes different methods of construction, and yes different things, but sharing the same name.

Going back to the Corvette/Viper bit, the more accurate way to use the analogy would be getting upset that a Viper and a 'Vette are both being called sports cars. The defining element there is the two seat configuration with a performance bias. A 'Vette is not a Viper, but both are sports cars. The differences between the two do not change that, just as pattern welded and Wootz are Damascus steels. Damascus is not as specific a term as you are making it out to be.