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Load Bearing Walls

Discussion in 'Home Improvement' started by ej63090, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. Dec 5, 2017 at 5:35 PM
    #1
    ej63090

    ej63090 [OP] New Member

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    Anyone familiar with load bearing walls? I’m looking to remove an interior wall, and am looking at the setup in the attic. I’m pretty sure that the interior wall is just supporting the lap joints on the ceiling joists. The only part of load that I can see is pretty far deep, but it’s not really a spread load and really am not sure what type of support it is doing.

    Looks like I will have to do some type of support for the lapped joists, but that’s a significant difference than carrying a load.

    Let me know what you think. FYI I will be chatting with a structural engineer if needed.

    D819DA7C-8133-4A03-A227-D4355972234A.jpg
    5D194EC1-0799-4A9D-B606-932C1E7409B6.jpg
     
  2. Dec 5, 2017 at 5:42 PM
    #2
    T-Rex266

    T-Rex266 Independentoffroad who? That's cute. Staff Member

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  3. Dec 5, 2017 at 5:49 PM
    #3
    gosolo

    gosolo “The .com stands for communist”, Dale Gribble

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    This is a conventional frame system. The horizontal boards at the top are called collar ties. You can replace the load bearing wall below 3 different ways: build trusses in place, sistered to the existing framing (high difficulty), slip a beam in above the joists and hang them from above (moderate difficultly), or place a beam below (not bad).
    These second 2 require a support at each end of the beam.
    More than this, I’m reluctant to venture without plans and better pictures.
    You need to talk to your engineer
     
  4. Dec 5, 2017 at 5:51 PM
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    ej63090

    ej63090 [OP] New Member

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    I was thinking about the beam above, would be nice esthetically, but I have no idea how the heck I’d get a monster beam up there. Wall I’d remove spans 20+ feet.
     
  5. Dec 5, 2017 at 5:53 PM
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    Slayer

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    does the wall you wish to remove run parallel or perpendicular to the ceiling joist?
    if it's perpendicular you will likely need to support these.

    without more info or photos.... have that chat with a local consultant.
    maybe reply with a drawn sketch of what your proposing...
    (wall location in relationship to ceiling joist)
     
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  6. Dec 5, 2017 at 5:53 PM
    #6
    gosolo

    gosolo “The .com stands for communist”, Dale Gribble

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    I have done this in historical buildings 3 floors up and 60’ long. Make a hole at one end and use a small crane.
     
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  7. Dec 5, 2017 at 5:55 PM
    #7
    Vizsla

    Vizsla New Member

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    I was typing same thing. That can snowball, is it on the second floor?, think of carrying that beam load down regardless.
    No biggie, cut hole in roof/gable whatever, slide in.
     
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  8. Dec 5, 2017 at 6:08 PM
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    Vizsla

    Vizsla New Member

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    Honestly after further thought, just call 2 or 3 reputable contractors and get estimates. You will be able to see what needs done, and if the scope is out of your skill set. I would do that before an engineer, and estimates should be free. Mine are.
     
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  9. Dec 5, 2017 at 6:14 PM
    #9
    1UPPER

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    The bracing you see in the attic going down onto the ceiling rafters is typically placed at the joints of the ridge framing. I also concur with @gosolo points. Installing a header would be the easiest solution without having to become such a difficult remodel. But a lot more information is needed to determine what needs to be done. Is this a one or two story home. If it's a two story home then there may be other load bearing areas to consider for the header or transfer of weight loads on the first floor from the second floor.

    There are two ways to install the header. 1. Have the header below the ceiling rafters and below the ceiling line. (Easiest solution but the header is below the existing ceiling line)
    2. Install the header above the ceiling in the attic area. This would require all the ceiling rafters to be cut and hangered into the new header. This also would require various temporary bracing during the placement of the header. (More labor and cost to install but the header is left hidden in the attic above the ceiling) An engineer can determine the size, quantity and type of headers needed. I would expect an lvl or glue-lam header to be used. I hope this helps give you some ideas but more information is needed to determine what should be done for sure.
     
  10. Dec 5, 2017 at 7:07 PM
    #10
    ej63090

    ej63090 [OP] New Member

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    It’s a single story ranch. 26 feet between exterior walls. I can’t remember what the span will be from post to post but it’s in the 20+ foot section.

    Good point on the bracing at the ridge points, didn’t think of that. I’d be curious to what is the vertical support where those meet at the ceiling joists. Was hoping I just needed to worry about supporting the laps on the joists.
     
  11. Feb 27, 2018 at 7:27 AM
    #11
    ej63090

    ej63090 [OP] New Member

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    I talked with an S.E. informally and his suggestion was to use 3 - 1 3/4 11 3/4 LVL beams together to create a 5 1/4 wide 11 3/4 deep beam. This support is only for a roof/snow load - no floor loads. It will also be directly over a steel beam in my basement. 26 ft between exterior walls and a 24ft beam span.

    Does this seem reasonable? He made it seem like no big deal, but others say that I should have stamped plans.
     
  12. Mar 2, 2018 at 7:58 AM
    #12
    Wrongside

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    We have done several different versions of this. The easiest was to cut an access in the roof or gables, slide the beam in with crane or tele-handler, support the beam over the ceiling joists and hanger the joist up to the engineered beam using approved strap type hangers. Very minimal cutting of existing structure, only to remove overlapping joist ends if they created a problem for hangering, and no shoring required. The ceiling structure is supported by the new beam before the wall needs to be removed. Hope this helps. Good luck. See an engineer and get drawings, it's not worth the risk for such a minor savings. IMO.
     
  13. Mar 2, 2018 at 8:27 AM
    #13
    ej63090

    ej63090 [OP] New Member

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    Do you think that would be a better route than a flush mount using joist hangers? Seems a LOT cleaner. But then I have to worry about rolling resistance. Metal strapping? The lumberyard sized the beams for me. 3 - 18" x 24ft LVL's. I have a gable in the front of my house, I haven't checked out what type of access I have to cut holes in and insert the beam, but seems doable. The yard does free delivery with a crane truck and otherwise I am not working with much height anyways (single story ranch).

    I was thinking of supporting the beam with 5 1/2 in studs 3 jack's and 2 kings at each point with blocking between the floor and steel beam below.
     
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  14. Mar 2, 2018 at 8:47 AM
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    Wrongside

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    It's a much lower path of resistance to place the beam above, rather than cutting it in as a flush beam. I've done it both ways and know which way I'll go next if it's feasible for the given project and site.

    We have added a row of solid blocking in the ceiling joists, below the beam, if required. Your engineer will address this if it's a concern. As well as point load details and what is required to imobilize the ends of the beam from rolling.

    Should be a cake walk with a gable end, single story ranch. Sounds like you're on the right track. Best of luck!
     
  15. Mar 2, 2018 at 8:50 AM
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    Wrongside

    Wrongside New Member

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    Just noticed your question Re; hangers/metal strapping. They are not the same. I don't remember the model # off hand! but Simpson makes hangers specific to the application. Other companies probably offer similar options for the application.
     
  16. Mar 2, 2018 at 10:17 AM
    #16
    ej63090

    ej63090 [OP] New Member

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    It's a false gable, but still avoids cutting into a 2 year old roof!

    Thanks!
     
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