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Leveling questions

Discussion in '1st Gen Tundras (2000-2006)' started by rickybobby6969, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. Mar 17, 2020 at 6:26 AM
    #1
    rickybobby6969

    rickybobby6969 [OP] New Member

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    I’m currently planing on doing a 3 inch front only level from Moto fab question one has anyone done this strut spacer level and how did it go. Question two I intend on running 33s (32.7) will they run should I get spacers if so how big. Thanks in advance
     
  2. Mar 17, 2020 at 6:26 AM
    #2
    rickybobby6969

    rickybobby6969 [OP] New Member

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  3. Mar 17, 2020 at 6:30 AM
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    frichco228

    frichco228 New Member

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  4. Mar 17, 2020 at 8:02 AM
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    Boerseun

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    If you are doing 3" in the front only, my guess is that you will be nose high; not level. Most trucks have rake in the 1.5" to 2" range. Although, I am not sure about the 1st gens.
     
  5. Mar 17, 2020 at 1:27 PM
    #5
    imDementeD

    imDementeD New Member

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    Definitely will have a rake. The life level for first gen is 2.5 front" 1 back" (or 1.5" front if you only want front)
     
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  6. Mar 17, 2020 at 5:36 PM
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    Hooptytrix

    Hooptytrix Squeaky Chicken

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    Better off changing your struts to Bilstein 5100. Ride quality is not very good with the spacers
     
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  7. Mar 18, 2020 at 7:39 PM
    #7
    Jlhtec

    Jlhtec New Member

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    What causes the spacers to change the ride quality, and the Bilsteins don't?

    Thanks,
    Jeff
     
  8. Mar 18, 2020 at 8:07 PM
    #8
    Boerseun

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    Spacers don't change ride quality. People say that but it is not true. It's physically not possible; it's the same OEM springs and same OEM shocks. They put big 10 ply AT tires on the same time they do the spacers then they blame the harder ride on the spacer when it is because of the harder sidewalls of the tires.
    However, 5100 Bilsteins might have a better ride, not because it is not a spacer, but because it is an upgraded shock from the OEM.
     
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  9. Mar 19, 2020 at 11:49 AM
    #9
    TX-TRD1stGEN

    TX-TRD1stGEN ...

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    When I bought my truck it had a spacer lift in front and Everytime I went over a speed bump slowly I thought the whole truck broke.

    Maybe the stock uca didn't like the angle or something?

    If on ta Do budget get the 5100s. They are proven
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
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  10. Mar 19, 2020 at 12:42 PM
    #10
    DarthMurdicide

    DarthMurdicide Executive Redneck

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    I have a ProComp 2.5" front spacer set-up and it's perfectly level. I agree that 3" up front without 1" of rear lift will probably be nose-high. @Boerseun is right, no change in ride quality using spacers. Spacers are fine if you're not doing some hard core offroading; they're good on mild trails and dirt roads. This set-up allowed me to run 34.1" tires, with only trimming about 1" off the skid plate so it's behind the front sway bar, and removing the front "mud flaps".

    Now that I've been on this site for a minute with all these smart guys and gals, I agree, if you want just to get level, and get the added benefit of a better ride, get you some Bilsteins and put 'em on 1.9" (slight rake) or 2.5" (level). I'm going to a Bilstein 6112/5160 set-up once my OEM shocks take a poop.

    Good luck!!

     
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  11. Mar 19, 2020 at 2:06 PM
    #11
    Darkness

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    Yes and no.

    Ride quality if defined as how the shock controls the spring, you're right, that hasn't changed.

    Ride quality if defined as how does the truck work, or how does suspension cycle, then the answer is different.

    With spacers the lift comes from lowering the upper mount of the shock(and coil perch). The lower shock mount is fixed to the arm and moves as the shock cycles. With spacers in place your shock will bottom out before the bump stops contact the lower arm. No spacer kits come with bump stop extensions to prevent this.

    With 5100s, the lift comes from raising the lower coil perch on the shaft, but the upper perch and shock mount remain in place with the coil bucket. The higher you lift, the less likely your shock will bottom out since you are moving the shaft further out from the body (extending the shock more at static height). Plus, 5100s come with washers to extend the bump stop slightly.

    To the real issue, if the OP wants level stance he will want between 1.5-2" of lift up front and don't mess with the rear. If he has 4wd it is not recommended to go beyond 2" of lift anyway to keep CV angles from destroying boots.

    @rickybobby6969 save a little more and go with a pair of 5100s. Keep in mind you'll need alignment after. Also if you're installing yourself do it right, loosen lower and upper arm pivots before you install, then when the shocks are in bounce the truck a bit, then tighten up the lowers and uppers. This keeps your bushings from binding at the altered ride height.

    @DarthMurdicide ...
    Urinal Etiquette 21042019071536.jpg
     
  12. Mar 19, 2020 at 5:24 PM
    #12
    Boerseun

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    For the record, I never argued that 5100 is not a better option.
    Also, some spacer lift kits come with bump stop spacers. I have a spacer and I have bump stop spacers that came as part of the kit.
    Extending the shock at the top, or at the bottom is irrelevant. You can mount it upside down, it wont make a difference. Think about it. Your argument says if your blanket covers your feet but your shoulders are cold you cut a piece off the bottom and sew it to the top. You can just pull up the blanket instead - same difference.
    Mostly, your argument compares 5100 with stock springs & shocks and spacers. That's not the argument. The point is that stock springs & shocks ride the same as stock springs & shocks with a spacer.
     
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  13. Mar 19, 2020 at 7:44 PM
    #13
    Darkness

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    @Boerseun it isn't at all the same, spacers do not extend the shock at the top, they lower the entire assembly. Lowering the entire assembly 2 inches vs extending the shock by changing the spring perch are not the same.

    As I said before, "ride" vs "cycle" are different. Ignore the bump stops, fair enough, we can always add spacers to the bump stops. Let's talk about droop and how many first gens with 3" lift spacers get the dreaded ball joint clacking, which doesn't seem to happen with 5100s.

    Think of it this way, imagine your shock has maximum extension from eye to eye of 20", that's 11" shock body and 9" of shaft at full droop. At normal ride height there are 4" of shaft coming out of the shock body. If you change the spring perch that extends the shock and now the shock has 6" of shaft coming out of the body, the full extension if the assembly is still 20".

    Take that same assembly, throw a 2" spacer on top (first gen gets 1.6" lift per 1" change at the coil). Now when your shock is fully extended you are hitting 22" total length rather than 20". More travel always sounds good until it puts the cycle of your suspension outside of limits. Our upper arms bind first, then sway bars, then tie rods.

    I ran spacers briefly, when I hit speed bumps my upper ball joints made disturbing sounds. I switched to 5100s (Toytecs really) and that went away. I'm not one to argue, but when somebody is looking for advice and I see the potential for trouble in their future I have to warn them. A spacer on a first gen might be okay for 1-1.5" of lift but beyond that they cycle too far for our (stock) upper arms.
     
  14. Mar 20, 2020 at 4:16 AM
    #14
    Boerseun

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    I never argued about spacers vs 5100. I also agreed that 5100s are better.... I was comparing apples to apples. Same shocks, same springs, same tires.
    OEM vs 5100 was not the discussion. Someone asked why spacers change ride quality. Spacers don't change ride quality. Changing shocks, springs, tires etc. change ride quality.
    Ride quality is your 99% driving on the road quality. Hitting the occasional speed bump in a parking lot and bottoming out the travel is not considered part of the overall ride quality discussion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  15. Mar 20, 2020 at 4:24 AM
    #15
    Boerseun

    Boerseun Super White

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    This is not accurate. But I really don't want to argue about it. It is what it is.
    There are many variables that people don't take into account when we start talking about this that it is easy to either misunderstand or just plainly see it from different ways. To keep talking about this when we are not even discussing the original thread topic is not worth it.

    I do appreciate you and others suggesting the 5100 option and offering a better setup, so let's leave it at that.
     
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  16. Mar 20, 2020 at 5:20 AM
    #16
    glowblue

    glowblue Trusted Agent and Known Friend

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    Lively discussion! I don’t have a lot of experience with spacers and shocks but I will offer this: tires also play into ride quality. Test drove a 2020 Silverado Trail Boss with Goodyear Duratracs and wow were they loud and rough. I just put on a set of Falken Wildpeaks on my base model 2019 SR DC still with stock suspension and they ride great! I’ll be upgrading the suspension soon but tires make a big difference too in ride quality.
     
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  17. Mar 20, 2020 at 7:05 AM
    #17
    Darkness

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    :notsure: do what youd like and believe what youd like. If you think adding a spacer to the top of your assembly doesn't extend your effective length then I won't bother explaining more.

    Agree on tires, they make or break the ride. OP didnt ask about tires. I even agree on "ride quality", what I don't agree on is suspension cycle.
     
  18. Mar 20, 2020 at 7:59 AM
    #18
    Darkness

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    I'm not great with explaining by text, here is what I'm trying to say.

    Right side represents lift by spacer, total distance from upper mount at the coil bucket, to lower mount at the arm is increased. With a 5100 that doesn't happen, the shock is just riding at a more extended (but within same travel) length. Ride will feel the same, but the spacer can force suspension out of it's intended cycle.

    20200320_075517.jpg
     
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  19. Mar 26, 2020 at 9:48 AM
    #19
    Californ_i_aj

    Californ_i_aj New Member

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    Leveling kit/rims &tires.
    I had my 5100's on the top notch, ended up setting them back on the bottom notch and installed some spacers after a year. I like the ride much better with the spacers. When raising the bottom purch on the 5100's you are compressing the spring, which will give you a higher spring rate due to the preloading. In my experience that effect gave a harsher ride. To each their own. I'd love to ultimately go with coilovers, but don't have the funds to do so.
     
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  20. Mar 26, 2020 at 10:10 AM
    #20
    Hooptytrix

    Hooptytrix Squeaky Chicken

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    I went from the bottom perch to the 4th and the ride stiffened up quite a bit. I kinda like it being firm but I think at about ring 3 would be a good compromise.

    Yes a quality set of coilovers would be best but the cost can get crazy
     
  21. Mar 26, 2020 at 11:38 AM
    #21
    Darkness

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    Coilovers don't guarantee a "better" ride.

    Any shock that reuses stock coils can ride "better" than most coilovers, and knowing what are available for these trucks I'll say any coilover. Stock coils are progressive, they have different width coils so some bend at 200lbs and other bend at 500lbs. That helps with the feeling over small bumps and can soften the impact on larger bumps. If the stock coils are compressed too much, and the softer coils are now collapsed, you lose that cushion. Following manufacturers recommendations on spring perch should avoid this.

    Aftermarket coilovers have linear coils, either 600, 650, or 700lbs. There is no flex on smaller bumps with these. You can valve the shock all you'd like but the minimum amount of force to flex a coil is still the same. That is why coilovers tend to buck on small bumps but feel great hitting bigger dips.
     
  22. Mar 26, 2020 at 12:23 PM
    #22
    Hooptytrix

    Hooptytrix Squeaky Chicken

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    No such thing as perfect ride but coilovers give a lot more flexibility as to height and ride quality. Not all coilovers use linear springs nor do they all use progressive rates in the strut. There are options for the coilovers within the multiple brands available to tailor for your need. It's just a matter of research. I personally don't think coilovers for this truck makes sense for my use. I am plenty happy with the Bilstein 5100's with stock springs
     
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  23. Mar 27, 2020 at 10:44 AM
    #23
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 Yup, that's car parts in a dishwasher

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    So they make progressive springs with coilovers? That seems like a happy medium between lift and ride.
     

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