Kneeling in NFL what are your thoughts

Some good stuff here fellas. Thanks everyone for keeping it (mostly) adult.

 

You left out Baseball..

 

To say "completely" or "totally" would be ignorant. Saying "mainly" reserves some hope for the few that are honest hard working players. You are correct that one in five arrested in the NFL doesn't equal a majority, but if one in five are caught, how many are slipping by? It's a problem the team owners are more than willing to ignore, and in many cases cover up, as long as the money rolls in. When I was young, I was taught that I'd be judged by the company I keep. The wisdom of that lesson seems to be lost on the owners, players, and parents of the young fans of today's "Sports Heroes".

 

Well said Ron!

 

Precisely. Look at the Ray Rice incident.

Waaaaaaay too many people caught with their hands in the cookie jar on that one.

 

I agree with a majority of what you said. Some of which I don't. I work within the court system and know many officers and deputies and they are fine people. They have a job to do usually without all the facts and with a moment to make life and death decisions without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight that they will be judged by. Also there is the media spin. The media will always play the negative aspect of everything being that is what grabs ratings. If you want to protest a issue, then great. Get whatever message out there. I am all for it. When groups have to use violence to get a message out, they have lost all credibilty. They use violence to silence those who have a different point of view. They cover their faces and bring weapons to attack those who disagree with them i.e. Berkeley for a recent example. That's not bringing up a topic to deate and showcase. That's throwing a tantrum until you think you can get your way.

Berkeley known for furthering free speech now censors whatever doesn't fit a liberal agenda. MLK must be rolling over in his grave.

Disrespecting the national anthem and the flag to get a message out there is fine for grabbing headlines, but it also disrespects every person who has served in the military and that have died for these people to be so disrespectful. That is where I say I don't care one bit for their message. They could be advocating orphans and abandoned puppies and I wouldn't care under those circumstances. Well I would in general but I think you get my point.

If stopped by an officer. Regardless of your race, if you keep your hands visible, don't make any sudden movements and are respectful, you are going to be fine. If you act like a moron, try to make a situation to video to frame it to a agenda and end up shot in the process such as the guy in his car a while back, then I really don't have much sympathy for them. If you get pulled over, especially at night, then turn on your inside light, roll down both windows being you don't which side the officer will approach from, put your hands on the steering wheel at 10 and 2 and wait for the officer to make contact. Don't go reaching for wallets, registrations, etc. You will be suprised how much courtesy this will buy you from the officer. Then again common sense isn't that common anymore.

If people would just use common sense, then alot of these 'issues' wouldn't even be a issue.

 

If you wanna protest fine. But my employer expects me to work when I'm at work. And as a fan I expect you to set an example for your brand when you're at work. Protest on your own fucking time, not on mine (as a fan) when I wanna watch you pound the rock.

Not saying our president is wrong in what he is saying but is it really an issue you need to spend time talking about at a rally?

 

Honestly, I don't see how kneeling and protesting the Flag and National Anthem accomplishes anything. All it does it create division and more hatred. Last I checked, America isn't taking away any of these people's (players) rights. They have the same rights as any of us have; to vote, to work, to live where you want to live and to buy what you want to buy. There are very few limitations put on anyone in this Country based solely on who or what color you are. You are what you make of yourself. Sure, some people have it better, and maybe they do have more opportunities; but even those without, still have those same opportunities to make for themselves. Just look at these NFL players who come from nothing. That's what makes America great, and why we should before anything else, respect our Country, our Flag, and our service men and women of today and those who came before them to give us all those freedoms. Without that, none of us would have those opportunities.

If this "protest" really is about the treatment of a race, how is kneeling and protesting America and a song going to accomplish anything. As I said before, all it does is make things worse. Why don't these NFL players use their celebrity and money in their local neighborhoods to influence a change of mind frame of the people there. Why not teach them to be better citizens. Why not go to the local authorities and police stations and have discussions on the topic and try to bring communities together. Until we can have real intelligent open discussions on all sides, nothing will ever change. Protesting, screaming, or even kneeling does nothing to make changes.

Personally, I hate the disrespect being shown by kneeling and honestly, just makes them look pathetic. You may like or dislike Trump, but he is not the Flag. The Flag is so much bigger than that and represents our Country as a whole and the men and women who fight, bleed, and die for our way of life. On the bigger picture, there are people out there in this world who would love nothing more than to kill you because you are an American. They don't care what color you are, your background, or what your opinions on this and that are. We all need to be looking at the bigger picture.

 

Ok fellas - I get it. Take what you get and say nothing or you'll ruffle the wrong feathers.

That's the norm.

 

I have to say - the sentiment that I see here is very disappointing; but it's the world that I live in.

It feels like it's being said take what you're given and enjoy it or screw you to damnation. If you don't like it go back to a place you have no connection to...

Oh yeah 500 yrs later you don't even know where that may be

 

I used to mostly watch the NHL and a bit of NBA and a little NFL. When the NHL went on strike for the 2004-2005 season, I very quickly found out that not watching games gave me lots more time. Since then I have not watched a single pro sporting event and have not looked back and missed those old days of watching one bit.

The NHL strike gave me a reason to stop watching. If the players kneeling during the anthem is of any concern to you, give not watching a real shot. More time for truck stuff!!

 

Dal. I honestly don't feel like anyone who's trying to have honest dialogue is suggesting "shut up and take it, or we'll go get the boats..."

Let's not lean too heavily on hyperbole, or straw man arguments. They don't accomplish much towards resolution.


**edit
I think the issue is the forum that is chosen for the protest.

If I run outside and try to tell everyone it's raining when it's blue skies and no clouds, people aren't going to take me seriously, nor will I accomplish my purpose of getting everyone shelter from a storm.

 

Scum

 

Regardless of what the forum is, it's never the right time, never the right place, never the right venue -

I've been having this discussion since I was in my late teens... it's always the same.

After a while you just give up.

You can't explain to a blind man the difference between blue and yellow

 

I don't like to cherry pick posts but I want to address this because I feel it's at the heart of the issue.

My recommendation would be to not preface your explanation to the blind man with: "you aren't going to understand the difference between ....."

 

I was pretty sure we were over the race thing years and years ago.
Geezelouizee
If you or I or anyone else wants to be a loser... go for it. If you want to be positively successful then go for that too.
These players are making fools out of themselves and they really are proud of it.

 

Disappointing? Feel free to click the log off button and don't look back. I will take a leap here an try to explain to you what is actually being said on this thread. It's saying get whatever your message you may want to convey out there. That said, there are ways and places for it. Disrespecting the country and the flag and all it stands for is NOT the way to do it. It's a "look at me" method and is no more different that a spoiled self entitled child whining that they want ice cream and not brocolli. Disrespecting the flag, the national anthem is a slap in the face of everyone who wears or has ever worn the uniform and bled and far too often died for your right to be a douche.

What is being said is your life is what you make it. Nothing is owed to anyone. We all start equally and you get out of life what you put into it. These little cry babies screaming give me this, give me that and if you refuse you are a racist or bigot. Well I hate burst your bubble, but no one cares what you THINK you are owed. These groups today that burn down their own neighborhoods because a court verdict didn't bow down to their mob mentality. They want to block roads and highways to impact people who have nothing to do with their agenda just in order to grab headlines and media attention and have more times than I can recall been caught on video threatening the drivers they are blocking. Well I tell you personally, if I was in that position of a driver being threatened by a mob of protesters. I would have no issue turning them into speed bumps.

 

All I can say is the Warriors declining to visit the White House in protest is fine with me. They are not offending anyone other than who it is targeted against. The players kneeling just comes off as if they are blaming Veterens. I understand they are not attacking Vets, but it comes off that way. If they would have chosen any other form of protest, I think everyone wouldn't be so divided. Just my opinion

 

Eh...some people will never understand common sense.
All the explaining in the world and they will never get it.
Its all about me me me

 

Everyone has the right to express his/her feelings but not during the anthem. We should show the respect and unity to the constitution and Flag of the United States of America and stay together for the country.

On the other hand, the President should be uniting the citizens not dividing. My biggest fear, a divided country....

 

I'm foreign so take this with a pinch of salt...

I won't tell you which God to worship
I won't tell you how to worship
I won't tell you how to display your patriotism
Your relationship with your God & your country is yours and yours alone
The only thing I can control is mine.
God Save the Queen.

 

Man, I think Dal has a right to his opinion. He's gone through things you haven't just like you have that he hasn't. He might see things differently than you do.

For God's sake, the dude's a vet himself, he fought for our freedom. I think that earns him at LEAST an "agree to disagree" rather than a "GTFO".

I'd show some respect.

All my military buddies have different opinions about this "controversy". Some are in support of the players, some aren't.
Just because the ones that support or can see the players POV, doesn't automatically mean they're in league with the rioters that burn down their own cities.

 

Thank you Ron for serving this great country so my family and I can live as we do!
I also agree with your post 1000%. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Dave, I too haven’t seen a pro game for a couple of years unless I happen to walk by a place that has that game on and I still look away. If you as a person have no more ability to have respect for all those that love this country and those who serve(d) they can find other friends cause I’m not one of them

AMEN! Brother

 

As a non-black American, I could honestly say that I have never been followed in a store by a security guard. My relation with our local police department could not be better. In my town, policemen recognize my truck and wave at me. They used to play lights and sirens on their cruisers for my kids (when they were younger) when they see them walk by. Even away from home, I have never experienced the anything bad with policemen.

I've had many black friends over the years and I have to say that not one of them was not followed in stores by security guards. One of my favorite professors in graduate school (Michigan Ph.D., also the senior pastor of one of the largest churches in Chicago) was hand-cuffed right in front of his church. I could write a book on these horror stories and it's been going on for years. As a non-black person, I could emphathize with the situation, but I cannot fully understand the shame, despair, anger, and frustration that my friends have expressed to me. These are 'over-achievers' (doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc) who have worked hard, have done everything right, so to speak. If the best ones in certain population are treated this way, think of what happens in the lower segment.

Until we recognize the inequalities we do have, there is no fix. Protest will go on, fall on deaf ears, more death will follow, . . on both sides.

By the way, my son is playing for the local high school soccer team and the discipline and dedication required of him is pretty impressive. These football players are some of our best athletes, risking their entire career to make a statement. I think the least we can do is to listen without/before calling names.

(By the way, flag-protests and anthem protests have recurred throughout history--definitely not invented by these football players)

 

We all have fundamentally different life experiences which is what makes us all unique as individuals. I've witnessed first hand examples of blatant racism which still shock me - granted, this is just me in my world but it's shaped me & my opinion. I've been told by a police officer that I should've beaten the shit out of a guy who I had a verbal altercation with - (police were called as someone thought it was about to get rowdy). I was twice his size and pointed out to the officer, I'd have done him serious harm - his reaction - "it doesn't matter, you're white, you wouldn't get booked"

Another stand out example was my green card interview. My interviewer didn't even glance at my supporting documentation. I was greeted courteously, smiles, friendly and so on. I was in and out in under 5 minutes. At all the tables around me, I was surrounded by non-whites - they were having a polar opposite experience.

My point is that unless you've walked in someone's shoes, please try to respect their point of view