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Kings are stiff...?

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by Rick6, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. Jun 3, 2019 at 6:41 AM
    #1
    Rick6

    Rick6 [OP] New Member

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    Hey guys, after months of research I installed Kings front and rear.

    • They are 600LB
    • Installed 2x CB shims driver side, 1x CB shim passenger
    • Removed sway bar
    • Attached pics of thread counts
    • 35x12.5r17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers (35psi)

    I chose Kings because every talks about how "plush" the ride is supposed to be, which makes me wonder if something is wrong with mine - they feel more firm than stock.

    My next move is to take them to a suspension shop and re-valve. I hear something about a Flutter Stack being what I'm looking for. Has anyone had a similar experience?

    Update 6/28/2019:
    I know people will arrive here from Google/searching, so I'm posting the results so that it might help you.

    I re-valved two days ago to what's called a Flutter Stack, and it made a significant difference difference in terms of ride comfort. I would say this is close to how I expected the truck to ride by putting Kings on them.

    Before the Flutter Stack (Kings straight from factory), the truck felt stiff and bouncy to the point it was uncomfortable. After the re-valve, it feels like it soaks up everything comfortably. I would say the ride is 25% smoother than stock. And it's 500% better than using a cheap spacer lift.

    To be clear, even after the Flutter Stack it's not a "Cadillac" kind of ride, but it's not far off. Having heavy duty tires still makes you feel the small stuff. But now, when I hit bigger bumps, I don't feel like my entire body is jolted. It's now just soaked up. So, I'm calling this a win and worth the money to re-valve.

    If you already have Kings on your ride, understandably it's a little more of a nuisance to take them off and get this done. If you don't have Kings yet, you should buy them from a place that does tuning beforehand. Tell them what you want and they'll set you up. I wish I'd done that, rather than run them as-is from the factory. They're so customizable, you're selling yourself short by not taking advantage of that.

    Below are original pics attached before the re-valve:

    driver.jpg
    passenger.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
    TokerJoker likes this.
  2. Jun 3, 2019 at 6:43 AM
    #2
    reelcracker

    reelcracker Just a squirrel trying to get a nut

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    Add a bumper. Like my fox
     
  3. Jun 3, 2019 at 6:44 AM
    #3
    COMiamiFan

    COMiamiFan SSEM #3. Don't forget to try the search bar.

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  4. Jun 3, 2019 at 8:07 AM
    #4
    Omohundro

    Omohundro 2018 Not a Pro

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    You have to remember one persons plush is another’s harsh. I bought an Icon stage 5 and thought it rode very rough. I went with Bilstein and have never looked back.
     
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  5. Jun 3, 2019 at 8:21 AM
    #5
    BrownieT

    BrownieT New Member

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    Are those the oem replacement made Tundra shocks or extended travel? Do you have adjusters and/or experimented with them yet? I also have kings front and back, I wanted to do couchbuilder shackles in rear and the same shim set you have in front. I asked King about doing that set up and they said the shocks would not perform correctly if I did that. But I’ve read plenty of success stories on here about doing your set up.
     
  6. Jun 3, 2019 at 8:34 AM
    #6
    Rick6

    Rick6 [OP] New Member

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    Totally agreed. Though, I might have assumed people giving feedback on ride quality are comparing to stock (as opposed to other high performance shocks). I assumed Kings would be an upgrade in daily ride quality, and there are still many posts that give me the impression it's supposed to be...

    OEM replacement. I do have the adjusters, and have them set to the softest setting. I tried going stiffer about 7-8 clicks once and couldn't tell any difference at all. On the overall setup, I'm with you, I can see King would say not to but I based my decision off of seeing so many people with the CB shims having good results. The main trend of "ruined ride quality" seems to be cranking them up too high, so I was cautious not to do that. I spent months reading every post that mentions Kings and really believed I was doing everything the correct way as to get an awesome plush ride. (I even went with 17" wheels for more rubber haha!)
     
  7. Jun 3, 2019 at 8:34 AM
    #7
    MOTORHEAD

    MOTORHEAD New Member

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    Aftermarket suspensions are supposed to be firm , its a pickup truck come on man. If you want a plush ride get a car. Why does everybody complain so much
     
    Tacotundra likes this.
  8. Jun 3, 2019 at 8:36 AM
    #8
    Rick6

    Rick6 [OP] New Member

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    Coming from a guy who has a six inch lift? Yeah, YOUR ride I would expect to be stiff. Kings are supposed to be plush. And it's not "complaining", it's "trying to figure out if something I just spent $4K on is broken".
     
  9. Jun 3, 2019 at 8:39 AM
    #9
    MOTORHEAD

    MOTORHEAD New Member

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    Sorry to come down on you , but with off-road tires and suspension work don’t expect your truck to ride the same . You changed how it handles, stops and other ways it drives.
     
  10. Jun 3, 2019 at 8:42 AM
    #10
    MOTORHEAD

    MOTORHEAD New Member

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    Everybody lifts their truck and get off-road tires and expects their truck to drive like stock. Nobody understands this.
     
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  11. Jun 3, 2019 at 8:44 AM
    #11
    Rick6

    Rick6 [OP] New Member

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    It's all good. As I mentioned in my OP, my next avenue is to possibly try revalving. There is a shop near me called Accutune that does something called a "Double Flutter Stack". Their website says shocks are "stiff and bouncy" out of the box and this is supposed to change that: https://accutuneoffroad.com/accutune-double-flutter-stacks/

    I'm thinking of giving them a try, just don't want to be sold on an expensive service if it winds up making no difference. Was really hoping for someone with experience in revalving to say "yeah it's night and day" or "don't bother".

    I was actually hoping it would ride much better than stock.
     
  12. Jun 3, 2019 at 8:49 AM
    #12
    bdpeelgren

    bdpeelgren New Member

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    I don’t think you understand the difference between whatever lift kit you’re using, Probably rough country, and a suspension set up from king.
     
  13. Jun 3, 2019 at 8:51 AM
    #13
    MOTORHEAD

    MOTORHEAD New Member

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    Don’t waste your money on that. My advice to you is just drive the truck a while and get used to the way it drives and handles and stops. Sometimes it takes a little while to get used to something new. Trust me you will like it and you wont want to go back
     
    Tundyfundy likes this.
  14. Jun 3, 2019 at 9:02 AM
    #14
    Hbjeff

    Hbjeff New Member

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    I think they will be stiffer than stock no matter what. If they weren’t then they wouldn’t last offroad

    Shock valving does this. Lifting the a arms increases stiffness, thicker tires increases stiffness.

    Triple whammy, you just get used to it.
     
  15. Jun 3, 2019 at 9:02 AM
    #15
    Omohundro

    Omohundro 2018 Not a Pro

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    I went back, dumped the Icon and went to Bilstein. No reason for a truck that’s only leveled or slightly lifted to ride like crap. It doesn’t have to ride like a car but I certainly don’t want it to ride my Ram 5500.
     
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  16. Jun 3, 2019 at 9:18 AM
    #16
    MOTORHEAD

    MOTORHEAD New Member

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    After I lifted my truck it took me a little while to get used to the Change and the way it drives. No regrets so far . Thats all I am saying. I not trying to get everybody pissed off or start a war, when you change the suspension and tires you alter the way it drives. Either get used to it or get a car
     
  17. Jun 3, 2019 at 9:19 AM
    #17
    pbcolt

    pbcolt New Member

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    I added Kings and was also expecting a softer ride than what I got. They have softened up after 10k miles or so. It's definitely not bad, just stiffer than what I expected. What I totally was blown away by is how comfortable/planted/confident they feel off-road, even at 50+mph.
     
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  18. Jun 3, 2019 at 9:19 AM
    #18
    BlackSheep

    BlackSheep falling uphill

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    search on here for posts by @jberry813 . he's a suspension wizard and can explain what's happening better than i ever could.
     
  19. Jun 3, 2019 at 9:39 AM
    #19
    conlons26

    conlons26 High speed dirt mobile

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    my moron train of thought would lead me to believe that yes they should be stiffer than stock as they are hi performance shocks not meant to ride like a Cadillac. the whole reason for having a remote system is so you can beat the crap out of them off road and they will not overheat and fade. High performance shocks and big heavy tires are defiantly not going to run like mushy stock junk and the cheapest tires Toyota can find that make the truck feel nice on the road. i have a similar set up, kings with adjusters up front (set to 10 clicks) with 295's on 18", no adjusters in the rear and Toytec shackles. i think it rides great and not that far different from stock but came from 20" wheels so i have much more rubber now. have you checked your pressure?
     
  20. Jun 3, 2019 at 11:09 AM
    #20
    monaco730

    monaco730 MAGA

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    My fox's felt much better than the stock suspension, jussayin. I <3 Fox.
     
  21. Jun 3, 2019 at 11:20 AM
    #21
    TheBeast

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    they will shine on those high speed runs in the desert. Not so much on the streets.
    As far as threads showing vs ride being harsh, you are running Kings out of the box settings so they behave as they should imo. Run them for couple thousands miles see if they perform better and if not you can always go try those guys at Accutune in Carson. Heard good things from them. I assume you are local to them as well.
     
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  22. Jun 3, 2019 at 11:29 AM
    #22
    CampRig

    CampRig New Member

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    I have the same setup (I’m going to remove my sway bar next week) with 3k miles on it. The ride is super smooth on the street.
     
  23. Jun 3, 2019 at 11:35 AM
    #23
    Darkness

    Darkness Allergic to white

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    It is most likely the difference in springs. Factory springs are progressive, so they have variable firmness. A small bump will feel like a small bump. Aftermarket coilovers aimed at off road have linear springs, there is one rate for the entire spring. For example if your coils are 700 lbs rated, it takes 700 lbs of force to compress the spring an inch, therefore a small bump won't compress the spring much and your truck will feel stiff. Hit a good sized dip or bump and it will do okay.

    I don't think that valving will help much, if at all.
     
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  24. Jun 3, 2019 at 11:52 AM
    #24
    Rick6

    Rick6 [OP] New Member

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    This is good to know, thanks. I was expecting softer than stock I guess, but maybe was incorrect in doing so.

    I'll do that - good suggestion. I work from home so don't get to add many miles, but will give it a few thousand miles and see if it still feels harsh. Either I'll get used to it, or they'll soften, or both. And if it's still noticeable I'll hit up Accutune, so I'm glad you've heard good things.

    Man I'd love to ride in yours and see if we just have different interpretations, or if they feel different. By the way, I removed my sway bar and it was a big improvement in ride quality. I also tried airing my tires down from 35 to 30, and it was also an improvement, but it felt like I was towing a boat so I put it back.

    Thank you for the explanation.. that makes sense. Mine are 600lbs, and given Tundras are monsters, I was thinking 600lb might even feel squishy. Toytec doesn't even offer 600lb as an option in their BOSS anymore because they say it's too little for our weight. I figured 600lbs would be super soft.
     
  25. Jun 3, 2019 at 11:56 AM
    #25
    Alexstundra

    Alexstundra Not a new member

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    Tire pressure?
     
  26. Jun 3, 2019 at 11:58 AM
    #26
    Rick6

    Rick6 [OP] New Member

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    35psi on 35x12.5r17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers. It's in my OP :)
     
  27. Jun 3, 2019 at 12:07 PM
    #27
    TheBeast

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    I run mine at 40 psi.
    35 seems low for street/highway driving on those big tires.
     
  28. Jun 3, 2019 at 12:09 PM
    #28
    TheBeast

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    I thought stock KINGs came with 650lbs springs, did you ask specifically for 600 ?
     
  29. Jun 3, 2019 at 12:17 PM
    #29
    Hbjeff

    Hbjeff New Member

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    Is it possible that 600s have to be cranked up more to get to your desired ride height? Ive seen preload discussed alot but ill admit i do not fully understand how preload affects the operation in driving conditions
     
  30. Jun 3, 2019 at 1:14 PM
    #30
    art64

    art64 New Member

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    OEM versions are valved stiffer than stock. But when driven on rough terrain at high speeds, the "plush" ride feel suddenly emerges. I don't have compression adjusters on mine but will attempt to install Fox DSC adjusters on my Kings. Will need new hoses. It has low and high speed adjustment. Speed referring to the speed of the shaft movement.
     

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