Ironman 4x4 Suspension

You seem very determined to see this company in a negative light no matter what anybody tells you.

Take it from somebody in management. It is much more difficult to find good help than most people realize. You hire a guy to assemble springs onto coil-overs all day long and they either don't have the mental capacity to do it properly, or they do great for a week then start phoning it in out of boredom and stop paying attention. So then you have to bring in another new employee, and start the process all over again. And in the meantime you have bad products shipping out the door.

There are also plenty of instances where things are going wrong and nobody with the ability to fix the issue has any idea it is happening because nobody tells them.

Just because this is a company that specializes in suspension components doesn't mean that every last employee that works there is a suspension guru. Most are just local guys that applied for a job and don't really know anything.

I think you have some unreasonable expectations. Yeah, this has been an ongoing problem for a while, but it also seems to be almost entirely limited to JUST the tundra line, which is going to be their lowest selling line by a wide margin. So it makes sense for the higher-ups to have either not heard of this issue, or to file it under "acceptable" losses because it wouldn't make business sense to fix the problem until it became too bad to ignore. And make no mistake, EVERY business has "acceptable" losses and "acceptable" design/manufacturing flaws. There is no such thing as a business that would bankrupt itself trying to make every last product perfect.

 

As someone who works in manufacturing, this is pretty spot on.

 

I would love to see the positive light and have many many years in production in a fabrication shop so I am very well aware of how things like this can and should work.
Simply because they can’t get good help does not mean you should be good with a subpar product.
I work very very hard for my money so whoever I decide to spend my money with I am going to have very very high expectations of.
Do I expect perfection? No, but there is clearly a reoccurring problem here and while one may place blame on a specific assembler, where is the quality control that continually lets the spring leave the building looking like that???????

When I worked in a fab shop at least 2 other people checked my work prior to it being passed to the customer. It went that way for everything that went out regardless if it was done by the best or worst employee.

Yes, even the best person at something is going to make mistakes. Hence the need for layering as a part of quality control.

One slips through and makes it to a customer, yes it happens. Customer sends something back and the customer receives something with the exact same problem? You don’t find that problematic? And it has not just happened once there are a few people here (and we are a tiny tiny portion of their customer base even if us Tundra folks aren’t a very large market for them does not equate to us getting inferior product or lower level of quality control). I own numerous other vehicles besides a Tundra so I may want so of their products for something else I own.

Also the fact that they told a number of folks that a bowed spring is just fine.
If anyone finds the springs pictured here to be just fine simply by looking at it well I am not sure what to say about that as there is no chance I would put it on my truck.

 

1. There is a world of difference between a local fab shop and a multi-national parts distributor. Especially when there is only one warehouse providing these parts to damn near an entire continent. Having people to inspect every single part that leaves their warehouse would not be in any way practical. It is just easier and more practical to rely on the fact that a large majority of your products will be assembled perfectly well and then handle returns and issues as they pop up.

2. I've gotten defective products repeatedly from even top name brands. Surefire flashlights, LG tvs, Samsung phones, etc. The list goes on. There are always manufacturing defects, issues, bad runs, broken or out of spec machinery, bad employees, and any number of other issues that cause defective products to be shipped out one after another.

3. For the most part, a slightly bowed spring is perfectly fine. Most of the time, the bowed spring will straighten out once installed on the vehicle, so the customer service agents are perfectly justified in recommending that to most people.

4. We are here in this forum thread looking at several people, including myself, bitching about severely bowed springs. But that is still only a very small minority of the total Ironman4x4 customer base. Most of their customers aren't in the forums saying anything. And people also don't tend to get online and talk about their lift kits that had no issues whatsoever. Seriously, go back and count how many people have had this issue. You might find maybe 5? 5 out of how many hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands that have been sold?

5. I didn't say that Tundras should get an inferior or lower quality product. What I said was that because Tundra parts are likely their lowest selling products, they likely aren't getting a lot of feedback about quality control issues and so have little reason to do anything about it.

6. And lets be fair here. Yes, I was also told to just install my coil overs and they would be fine. When I insisted they would not be fine, they asked for pictures and once they saw the pics, they immediately told me not to install them and they would send me a new set. And when the new set came in they didn't even ask for pictures before offering me a third set that they promised would be serviceable. So no, they are NOT looking at these pictures and telling people they are fine.

Like I said, you seem to be looking for reasons to hate this company. You are making up a strawman version of Ironman4x4, attributing things to them that just aren't true. And while I have no stake in the company, I don't think that's very fair. And to be open and honest, I still don't know what I think about the company myself. I am still waiting to receive my replacement coil overs. Maybe they are full of shit, or maybe they are legitimately trying to make a bad situation right. I don't know yet, and you certainly do not either.

 

I am going to answer just the first part of this. IronMan4x4 America is (or was) run out of Metal Tech 4x4's offices and fab shops. All of their work was done by employees of one, or both. If the product is inferior, it is on the multinational company. If the problem is the springs are incorrectly installed, it is on IM4x4 and MT4x4.

They have ALWAYS been good at customer service though, and this goes back to the first time I used to the product in 2010(2011?) on my Tacoma. They owned up to a mistake or an issue with the part and replaced it in a timely manner.

 

Don't forget the covid effect... for a growing company.

The extra long coil and large shock body make this a lot more critical than your average shock. I stated earlier that here is probably an issue with the upper and lower perches not matching the spring quite right, which results in a modest bow in the coil, always in the same direction relative to these perches. The springs have some lateral tolerance on these perches, so you can make it worse or better depending on how the spring is installed. I *think* most or all of these can be fixed by being careful and systematic with coil installation, to make the clearance as good as possible.

It's still hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that it has taken them so long to figure this out... if this is indeed all there is to it.

I'm not pleased about the extra 10 hrs of hard labor I had to repeat; installing springs, installing on the truck, and alignment. But damn... I love the ride. I think they have a good product.

 

Either way, it is still just one warehouse supplying products across North America. That is a lot of product being shipped on a daily basis and it just isn't practical to check every single strut before it is packaged.

 

Like I said, it is probably just a matter of what information the higher-ups have been told. How often are people actually complaining about their struts? how many replacements have actually been sent out compared to the total orders? Are the customer service guys reporting the issues to the engineers?

There are a hundred reasons that Ironman4x4 may not have even known there was an issue. If it is only 1% of the customers that get bowed coils, then it isn't really an issue at all, and me and you just got really unlucky. And even if it is 20% of Tundra customers get bowed coils, Tundra orders might be so few and far between that they just don't get that many calls about them, so it doesn't seem like a problem. Of course it is also entirely possible they knew the whole time and just didn't care because it was easier to send replacements instead of fix the issue. As of right now, I don't know the answer.

 

So we go from the problem being solved by changing to a single assembler to they are a multi National company they are SO big they can’t possibly have someone do a visual inspection.
Somebody has to be putting these things in a box and shipping them.

The issue at hand is not an internal issue or one that is easily missed.
A simple visual inspection (from across the room for this issue) of the coilover before being boxed up and then put to the side units that are bowed for reassembly. That will cost the company far less than shipping product multiple times and telling the customer to keep the bad one.

Do tell one thing I have said that is not true about Ironman???
For the most part I have only asked questions. What I have stated definitively is I would not put a spring that bowed on my truck in hopes it will straighten out.
Takes way to much time to do and these units aren’t inexpensive.
Other than that I have simply asked questions.

 

You are still jumping to conclusions here. I very clearly said that i do NOT know what the actual issue was or what their solution to the issue was. I made it very clear that I was only speculating about their solution based on what little information I had.

When I was told that there was one guy assembling the struts, that doesn't mean that it was only one guy assembling all of the struts. It could have been "one guy assembling all of the Tundra struts" or even "one guy assembling YOUR struts". And it might have even been just one guy assembling the struts, figuring out the issue, and then teaching a team of other guys how to assemble them properly. The fact remains, none of us here actually know what is going on in that warehouse and any assumptions made about it are uneducated speculation at best. Even the customer service guys we talk to on the phone don't have all the details because they aren't in the same building nor do they have any contact with the guys doing to work. There is always information lost in transit.

And yes, a "simple visual inspection" SOUNDS like a cheap, easy solution, but obviously it isn't that simple. Clearly, somebody there is assembling these things, looking at them, and packaging them anyway, despite seeing how bowed they are. Either that person doesn't know any better, or doesn't care. Maybe that person is assembling 500 struts a day, and if 4 or 5 end up bowed, he doesn't care. And he's gotten away with that for the last several years. But again, this is all hypothetical speculation. I am just playing devils advocate based on my own work experience and what I know about business management and manufacturing.

And yes, while you are technically mostly asking questions, those questions are also clearly accusations.

And again, you might be 100% right. Nobody here knows. My only point is that we don't know. We don't know how common this issue actually is, we don't know if Ironman is actually fixing the issue or not. We don't know what their fix actually is, if anything. I am just saying we should wait and see and not jump to conclusions.

 

Jesus, guys! I have to unsubscribe to this thread. Days of email alerts of bickering is crazy. You’ve all voiced your inputs enough. Agree to disagree.

 

Hi all,

I have a 2017 I just purchased. I am new here. This may not be the place to ask this, but I hope someone can help me. I am trying to install my fronts and I am having a hell of a time getting the ball joint to align and slide onto the spindle. The angle seems very off.

I have the heavy constant load springs as this is going to be a heavy overland application, but I wonder if they aren't compressing enough to make the connection. I've jacked the LCA up until the truck was off the nearest jack stand and still no dice. I asked Iron Man in chat if I should compress the spring with a compressor, and they said to open the LCA instead?

Any thoughts or similar experiences?

 

Can't pull the UCA down? On mine I installed the shock by removing the lower LCA-hub bolts, but I didn't have a UCA to install.

I see your coil is bowed the same as every other one I've seen... the bow being towards the high point of the lower ramp.

 

I actually got it with a prybar, jack, and hitting the strike plate.

Yeah it was a little bowed I noticed, but not like the pictures on the previous page.


Question 2. For a 3.5 inch lift, is anyone installing longer brake lines? The kit came with a bracket for the back, but nothing for the front.

 

Full extension is controlled by the shock length, not the lift. Think we would have heard if it was needed.

 

Hey dude... Your coil also isn't sitting in the bucket properly. That lower part should be all the way at the lip where it goes back up (left side of lower coil).

 

Just turn off email alerts in your profile

 

Yeah, I noticed that as well. That's how it came, and i couldn't get it moved by hand. I'm not sure how to fix it. I am waiting for my Iron Man adjustment tool to see if I can somehow loosen it and move it.

Open to suggestions if anyone has them.

 

No thanks. I'm no quitter. And I'm not bickering, I am discussing.

Besides, who still has email alerts active these days? You can turn that off you know.

 

According to the Ironman4x4 YouTube video about installing the springs, the end of the spring is not supposed to be right up against the ramp because that will eventually cause the spring to pinch through the rubber pad and then you get metal on metal contact. Of course, in the video he doesn't have it quite THAT far away from the ramp..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrKvX-rHGdo

 

If it isn't rubbing just leave it. The end of the spring isn't supposed to be right up against that ramp because that can cause issues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrKvX-rHGdo

 

If it isn't rubbing or close, don't bother... it's fine. You'd have to take all the pressure off the coil with a compressor.

 

Ok install is finally done. A few notes for posterity.

I followed this video:

1: With the 3.5" lift and heavy load springs I was not able to get the shocks on without dropping the LCA, which I did by loosening the bolt on the front of the Lower Control Arm (But not removing the bolt).
2: To get the spindles and balljoint aligned, I had to jack up the truck by the Lower Control Arm, Cover a pry bar w/ a rag, and pull down on the Upper Control Arm using the spring as an anchor point. For one I also had to hit the strike point on the spindle with a mallet.
3: They skip a lot of work in this video. You are going to need to research other lift installs to borrow ideas.
4: The back, most of my time was spent trying to figure out WTF he was doing w/ the jack. Ultimately what worked was to jack the truck up by the diff pumpkin, put jack stands under the frame (at the rear jacking points just ahead of the leaf springs) and put jack stands under the rear drive shaft.
5: When he jacks up the vehicle at about 10:10 in the video, what he is doing is jacking up the frame. I jacked up one side at a time to lift the leafs out of the perch. To do that I needed to lift one side of the truck off the jack stands on the side of the frame.
6: He talks about supporting the pumpkin with a jack stand, this is important, but it didn't save me from making a mistake. Ultimately I needed to use the jack stand to raise the either side of the pumpkin (either behind the drive train or in front of it) to get the angle right. I also needed to loosen the bolts front and back on the leaf springs to get them some room to wiggle side to side. I used ratchet straps attached either to the tow bar or the front frame to move front to back, and a pry bar to move the leafs side to side until they went into the perch. I don't know if this makes sense, but there are basically 6 degrees of freedom - Pitch (Jackstand at the pumpkin), Roll (Prybar), Yaw (Ratchet Straps For and Aft).

I think the parts are all heavy duty, but the assembly quality was a bit off. Both of my shocks were bowed (which I am not stoked about, but I am going to use them and see if that works itself out or not), and one front assembly came without nuts to install it. I had to reuse the stock nuts, but as I did, some of the threading on the shock stripped. It's on there pretty tight, but I have no idea how I will get it off without a saw. VERY NOT HAPPY ABOUT THAT!

Other than that, the lift looks good on the truck. I removed the front sway bar while I was in there.

Happy to answer any questions about the experience.

 

As long as the springs aren't rubbing on the shock body, they are fine.

As far as the strut coming without hardware, you might have been better off either contacting them to have the hardware shipped, or going to a hardware store and buying the hardware. I don't know for sure, but judging by the fact that you say you boogered up the threads, the factory hardware and ironman hardware might have been different thread sizes/pitches. Not good.

 

Just got another update from ironman4x4.

In their efforts to QC and ensure they sent me a good set of coil overs, they discovered that there is a more serious flaw causing the problem. They have immediately stopped shipping and selling FCP Tundra kits until they get the issue resolved. Apparently they are bringing in the big guns from Australia to get this resolved.

So where does that leave me?

I was offered two options:

1. Get a full refund, keep the kit. Try to figure out a way to make it work, maybe buy other coils that might fit, or a different brand of coil over all together.

2. Get refunded for the price of the coil overs, which is about 35% of the price of the kit, keep the kit, and patiently wait until they figure out their problem and send me a good set of coil overs free of charge.

I chose option 2. Though i am now considering calling them back and going with option 1...

I've already waited over a month. Not sure i want to wait another 1-6 months or longer...

 

This is getting real interesting... and weird. They didn't tell you what that flaw was by any chance? It sounds like they are admitting that the Tundra coil issue has been there a long time.

They offered to give you a refund for the whole kit... but you keep it? Which kit is this? It's like they just keep throwing $$$ at you...

If I was you, I'd be getting a spring compressor asap, and if you can get the springs mounted adequately, then you just got the whole kit for free... plus a set of front coilovers to sell!

 

They don't yet know exactly what the problem is. At least, the customer service rep i talked to doesn't know.

I did call ironman to change back to option 1, but now they are trying to get out of it. "I offered that when i thought you already had the lift installed on the truck."

I told him that without even an estimated timeline, I'm not comfortable with just sitting and waiting for parts to show up.

I'm waiting for a call back after he talks to his manager.

And it's the foam cell pro 2 kit.

 

Got the call back.

They won't do a full refund without me shipping the kit back, which is a huge pain. But they agreed to a significantly larger refund and they will still send me a new set of coil overs once they fix the issue.

That's really better than i could reasonably expect.

In the mean time, i will get a spring compressor and try to un-bow the coils on the coil overs that i already have as much as i can and install the kit and see what happens. If they still rub, I'll just run them until the good set comes in.

I also asked them to let me know what the issue is once they figure it out.

 

Good job! Pretty sure you'll figure out how to make it work like I did (and a bunch of other people).

I'd love to see some details on how your bows are situated... wonder if they are the same as all the others?

If you are sticking with a 3.5" lift I'm not sure what would be a good and cheap compressor for that. The ones I used were pretty maxed out at ~2 inches.

 

I'd actually really like to reduce it down to 2.5 to 2.75in or so but without the ability to lower the back as well, i probably won't do that. Don't want to be driving around with my ass in the air any more than the factory rake.

But yeah my coils are extremely bowed. On the first set, one of them is making contact with the shock body. On the second set one of them is pressed very firmly against the shock body.

I haven't checked yet but I'm hoping the especially horrible ones are on opposite sides so that i only have to adjust the "not quite as horrible" springs.

Either way, they are only going to be on the truck temporarily until the new set arrives after they fix whatever issue they are having. So i guess it doesn't matter if they rub a little...