Ironman 4x4 Suspension

I see that the heavy coils are only 5mm longer and have the same spring rate. So if you got 2.5" of lift at 30mm, I'd need to go to 25mm to match your lift. To drop it another .5" (~12mm) and assuming a 1.7/1 ratio I'd be at 25-(12/1.7) or 18mm.

Is that going to be close to interfering with anything? Hope not...

 

No promises, but based off the math, and what you saw on their site, yes 18mm would be correct.

Im on the standard springs, no extra weight.

 

I have the heavy springs and have not installed yet but I contacted Ironman about setting mine to 2.75". He suggested I back off the collar 9 full turns from where it is set stock to obtain around 2.75". I plan on going 10 complete turns.

 

Here's what I did last night... takes awhile to go through compressing and decompressing the spring a few times. Worked ok, but... but I could only grab 6 coils (out of 11,12?) which meant I really had to smash those 6 coils down. And I'm only looking for 2"; it would be tougher if it was set to 3.5" (which I frankly think is way too much for a coilover lift). First time I used the clips that keep the tool clamped to the lower coil. Unfortunately this prevented me from compressing the spring enough, because the coil above hit it, and I didn't want to go further. So I took those off and tried again, and then it was fine. Plus I went through the cycle a couple more times to change alignment.

If you are thinking about buying these spring tools for a Tundra, you can save a few $ by getting the ones without extra safety clamps. Like these for $36 (vs $43 I paid):

$35 BTSHUB 280mm Hook Coil Spring Compressor Tool Heavy Duty, Strong and Durable Spring Compressor

https://www.amazon.com/BTSHUB-Spring-Compressor-Strong-Durable/dp/B08BBQ2N1P?crid=1CHZOCI1M5VAY&keywords=spring+compressor+tool&qid=1648243788&s=automotive&sprefix=spring+compressor+tool%2Cautomotive%2C125&sr=1-108#customerReviews

One of the tools has a rough bearing, that I hope will hold up... the other is fine.

 

Anybody know if this is an issue; end of the coil under a tophat bolt? I'm thinking not... it's going to be weird no matter where it ends.

 

Normal. Just an FYI, if the position of the lower mount rotated in relation to the top hat at all you will have issues installing them. Sometimes you can use something to clock them to the correct angle by mounting the top bolts then turning the lower mount eyelet.

Going to guess you had the tool through the lower mount during adjustment so probably didn’t shift much if at all.

 

That was the reason for doing it over, but getting that exact is pretty tough to do while torquing the tools loose. Just checked and it's still off a little... probably too much. Looks like another try is in order... hope the next one goes smoother.

 

Yeah, there are some draw backs to doing it yourself, unless you happened to have a professional compressor.

 

The 2nd one went together without a hitch. Some observations:

I measured travel of ~6.2" and final length of ~25.1" (center shaft to top of hat). This compares with stock #s of 5.93" and 23.55". The minimum lengths are 18.9" vs 17.62" which is a pretty huge difference... but I'm not sure how the stock one is measured. I'll check when I take it off. But if the IM is really that much longer, then it's acting as the bumpstop, and it would probably be a good idea to install bigger/longer/extended stops. It would also mean that we don't need a lot of spring preload to get lift, which is a good feature IMO.

They are tanks... weigh >37 lbs each with springs. I thought some parts might be aluminum, but it's all steel.

In Adam's shock+spring assembly video (below, and note this is not a Tundra shock), he mentions that the set screws can mess up the threads, making adjustment difficult. My inclination is to never use them! Surely the two huge collars tightened against each other won't move...?

Pretty big fail that these are hard to adjust on the truck. That's a major benefit of having a shock with threaded collars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrKvX-rHGdo

 

I can’t speak to all your technical measurements and number. But those set screws according to IM are there because they sell globally and are a requirement for Germany. I never touched the ones on the wife’s 4Runner. Pretty sure your right and they are never going anywhere.

 

I had their first gen FCPs (yellow coils) on my FJ back in 2016, they were just 2 collars, no set screws. No issues ever. One of my COs already lost one of those set screws anyway.

 

One of my shocks had two setcrews missing, but they were rolling around in the box. I think I'll just take them all out now...

Another tidbit of info, the assembled spring length is ~15.75", vs free lengths of 18.5" and 18.1"... so preload of ~2.75" and 2.35". These are the longer springs and I'm hoping for ~2" of lift. Bottom collar is 18mm from the bottom of the threads.

Seems odd that Ironman makes 4 different springs lengths for these when people can just adjust the collars...

 

So... any tips for install?

I've looked at a bunch of videos and read comments. Amazing how much variation there is! Some people take everything apart or at least loosen, but I'm lazy and I don't have many tools, so the simplest method is what I want! I've already removed the swaybar (probably staying off) and the skid (will soon be replaced by the RCI). It looks to me like the best method is:

1) Jack up the front, loosen lugnuts, and support the frame on stands, remove front wheels.
2) Remove the two 22mm bolts holding the lower balljoint to the hub... do this on both sides.
3) Remove 4 tophat nuts.
4) Use a ratchet strap to pry both LCAs down; enough to relax the force on the lower shock bolt. Then remove the lower shock bolt.
5) Remove the shock and place the new one, and secure the tophat nuts.
6) Relax the ratchet strap til you can slide the lower bolt in.
7) Bolt the lower ball joint back to the hub.
8) Tighten all the bolts, put wheels back on and lower it, and do the final torque on the bolts you removed.
9) Drive on some rough roads to settle the suspension. Check lift height and adjust if necessary. Check bolts again. Get an alignment or DIY.

Thoughts?

I'll probably get new bumpstops also. Haven't decided yet, but have spied a couple in the $20-$40/pair range that should work well... they are taller, PU, and can use separate 10mm bolts. Most have 3/8 bolts attached which won't fit well.

 

This is what I used and thought it was really good. I also recommend soaking all the nuts and bulbs with PB blaster a few days leading up to the install unless you are rust free.

https://youtu.be/KyloaYxFgU8

 

That's great! Pretty much what I was planning except I think I'll leave the lower UCA bolts alone.

 

Bad news! The springs are contacting the shock bodies...!?

Yes, I know this has happened to others, but that was awhile ago and I thought it had been fixed. Apparently not... I also thought I'd be able to tell after installing the springs, but I guess there was quite a bit of settling into the isolators when I went for a nice offroad run. On a bright note, I was very pleased with the ride.

At the very least I'm going to have to wait for them to send me springs or something, and spend an entire day redoing it all... and then hope it's good this time!

The spot is the same on both sides... 180 degrees opposite the discontinuity (just to the left of the pigtail) on the lower perch. It kinda looks like the high point of this ramp isn't supporting the spring well enough (ie it should be higher), causing the spring to bow in that direction. Either that or the defect is in the spring. Is this the same place others have experienced contact?

 

Hey Mike
I’m thinking about to use Dobinsons springs C59-610 with Ironman shocks. What do you think about that?
I would like to know outside diameter of the C59-610 if is possible.
The Ironman are 130 mm and 19mm coils
Thanks

 

Are both sides making contact ?

 

The driver side has rubbed the paint off two coils. On the passenger side I didn't see any paint gone, but I don't see any daylight between the coil and body either. I have less than 20 miles on these, so I think with a little more settling, the PS will be rubbing for sure.

Note... I've only got 2.5" lift and it will probably be ~2" once the settling is done. There is no extreme compression on these.

I've looked at photos others have posted in this thread when their springs rubbed, and it appears to always be in the same spot; on the opposite side of where the ramp terminates on the lower perch.

 

Not good!

 

Bummer! Over 30,000 miles on mine and no contact... I installed them pre-assembled but I'm not sure that matters.

 

I suggest calling Ironman asap.

 

I'm not sure if the Dobinsons coils will fit on the FCP. It's the length of them that can cause them to bow. OD doesn't really matter. Bigger and thicker coils are bigger in OD, not ID usually.

C59-610 are 68mm ID at the bottom and 89mm ID at the top. Essentially 89mm ID thru the majority of the coil.

 

Nah, it's gotta be the coil not matching the perch... probably poor QC when the coils were made. The bottom of the coil is far from flat, plus it tapers in diameter at the end. The ramp on the lower perch needs to compensate for this pretty precisely, so you end up with straight linear motion. Else it will bow.

It might be that this ramped perch was never quite right. Does everyone have bowed coils in the same direction... just some not bowed enough to touch?

There is going to be a tolerance on how the coil is made. For instance, say +- 5mm of bow is the normal spring tolerance that can be achieved. If the lower perch was designed properly it would be ramped for the middle of this range, so the bow would be somewhere between 0 and 5mm in any direction. But if the ramp creates a consistent bow of 5mm on its own, now you have a bow of 0 to 10mm (always in the same general direction) and some people are going to rub. Make sense?

 

In my experience it did appear to be bind and length related.

Had the same issue your seeing, went through 3 sets from Ironman, eventually fixed it myself by reducing the height which reduced the curvature in the coil. I tried rotating coil seat the see if the bend would rotate in such a way that there was no contact, but no luck until I lowered it about 1/2”. It was a hassle and is largely why I tend to remain fairly mum about praising these coilovers.

Ive never had this issue in a Toyota, and have had probably 4 or 5 different manufacturers products on my trucks. The only difference I see with IM is the coil length is ~2” longer than everything else.

 

You installed 3 sets of springs? On your time or dime?

I can understand why less spring compression might give you just enough clearance... but that isn't the fundamental issue here. The coil shouldn't be bowing so much in the first place, and it should be able to compress until the coils touch. That is what binding really means... that's the limit of any coil spring. And based on my measurements the FCP coils have enough travel so they will never bind (the shock will bottom out first). Plus I have these adjusted for only 2" of lift on an unloaded truck... if that's too much, then...

I don't know how much bowing other manufacturers have, but you can't be contacting the shock bodies. The ones who use tapered coils typically have much smaller shock bodies, so they have more clearance. Plus the springs are shorter which would help some. The 2.5 shocks all have springs that are one diameter and ground flat on the ends.

Anyway, I've sent photos and info and they are looking into it. Hopefully I just got bad coils and new ones will fix it... but I'm not looking forward to spending an entire day again doing the whole job!

 

I’m in the PNW, about 30 mins from them. They were great on the customer service side. In a way I felt for them, these products are international, made for a platform they don’t have overseas. So any bugs are slower to be dealt with and leaving IM America looking a bit bad. On the other end, I had them on my FJ, 5 or 6 years ago, the Tundra is old. This shouldn’t be an issue, but I don’t hold the guys in Newburgh responsible.

 

I don't hold them responsible either... but someone needs to be doing QC checks on the springs or design a new perch or something. Can't let the customer find this out considering how much labor is involved in installing these.

Actually I hope I screwed something up since if that gets identified I could fix it tonight! But I don't know what that might be...

 

Thank you very much. I’ll measure tomorrow and try to figure it out. The Ironman4x4 springs are simply long and soft for sure. I have dobinsons IMS on my GX460 for couple years without single problem.

 

That makes sense.

The top hat is also going to cause a bow since it's flat and the top of the spring isn't. It's got a tilt before you install it in the truck. I'm pretty sure moving that wouldn't help though, because that tilt and bow will still be the same relative to the spring regardless.

The only thing I can see that we could change without new parts is where the pigtail is located on the lower perch. Instead of locating that at the low point on the ramp, what if it was part way up the ramp? Unfortunately I think this would make it worse rather than better, but I'm not sure.

Is your contact point 180 degrees opposite the high point on the bottom ramp like mine?