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Install complete on additional transmission cooler

Discussion in '2.5 Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by Krohsis, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. Aug 4, 2020 at 5:51 AM
    #151
    Dragracer_Art

    Dragracer_Art New Member

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    Has anyone confirmed that the puck is ACTUALLY designed to warm the cold transmission ? (seems far-fetched to me) or if it is designed to quickly warm the coolant going to the heater core ?

    The transmission makes plenty of it's own heat quickly via the torque converter... so I'm more likely to believe the coolant is plumbed to the transmission puck/heat exchanger for quicker heat to the heater core... then becomes a liquid/liquid (efficient) transmission cooler once temps stabilize.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  2. Aug 4, 2020 at 5:51 AM
    #152
    JohnLakeman

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    The warmer/cooler has never had fluid inlet/outlet tubes, only coolant inlet/outlet tubes. Fluid flow into and out of the warmer/cooler has always been through o-ring sealed ports where it attaches either to a thermostat (models with the air-to-fluid cooler) or spacer adapter (models without the air-to-fluid cooler) mounted on the transmission. Transmission fluid flows into and out of the thermostat or adapter through o-ring sealed ports (5.7L/A60 transmission) or through fluid hoses to spacer/adapter tubes (4.6L/A760 transmission).

    The A760 (4.6L) has elbow pipe fittings with hose barbs on the side of the transmission for fluid flow to and from the spacer adapter, or prior to 2014, the thermostat. Owners (4.6L) wanting to put an air-to-fluid cooler on an A760 transmission could eliminate the warmer/cooler. Again, if Toyota went to the trouble to make engineering and manufacturing changes (not cheap) to add the warmer/cooler, my opinion is it's not a good idea to eliminate it. But...everyone gets to do what they want with their truck.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  3. Aug 4, 2020 at 6:00 AM
    #153
    JohnLakeman

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    You should think about this process some more.
     
  4. Aug 4, 2020 at 6:07 AM
    #154
    Dragracer_Art

    Dragracer_Art New Member

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    I have... and that is my conclusion.

    Start your truck dead cold and shut it off after 1 minute.

    I guarantee you the torque converter will be too hot to touch... while the upper radiator hose remains ice cold.
    I have never believed an automatic transmission needs any help getting hot. (I've built and raced many myself.)
    The thermostat is bypassed during this time so coolant still flows somewhat.

    The transmission fluid will heat the puck and thus the coolant going thru the heater core... giving cabin heat long before the engine reaches operating temperature.

    Makes perfect sense to me.

    Obviously I could also be dead wrong... as I haven't been under my truck yet to follow the lines. :rofl:
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  5. Aug 4, 2020 at 6:17 AM
    #155
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    Hockey puck is downstream of heater core. This means coolant has gone through engine and then goes to heater core. From heater core it goes to the warmer/cooler hockey puck, then returns to thermostat housing.

    So the hockey puck can act as both a warmer as thermostat is closed and engine warms up, and also as cooler if temps get above engine coolant temp.

    Tracing this out on my 2019 an alternative is to try to plumb in a small cooler on the engine coolant side to drop coolant temps to the hockey puck. If plumbed in series, downstream of heater core, then the warmer/cooler hockey puck could see coolant temps drop theoretically to the temps on lower portion of radiator. It could be up to a 100 deg difference on coolant side.

    Looks simpler than installing the old part numbers and a new cooler.

    I plan on trying this once I am towing alot.

    I don't have huge concerns about this right now. I know how Toyota works and they aren't going to make a stupid change that affects QDR. They probably have tons of testing on this. And other OEMs too are running high temps in all working fluids.

    For instance, newer Rams are running engine oil temps up to the 240-250 range.
     
  6. Aug 4, 2020 at 6:19 AM
    #156
    JohnLakeman

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    Coolant flow to the heater core is from the engine block, not the radiator. That coolant circulating in the engine is getting hot fast, because there is a perfect storm of gasoline being combusted inside the combustion chambers. There is no coolant flow from the engine to the radiator until the engine thermostat begins to lift around 180 degrees, but If that thermostat doesn't open, something is going to blow or melt. Friction heat inside the transmission will not compare; that's why your radiator is maybe 6-10X bigger than any transmission cooler.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  7. Aug 4, 2020 at 6:26 AM
    #157
    Dragracer_Art

    Dragracer_Art New Member

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    All you would need is an aftermarket, self contained heater core for street rods. It would already have a fan and shroud on it and would make an excellent setup for this.

    Years ago I used one of these in a Buick Grand National of mine that had all the AC/heater parts stripped from the firewall. The aftermarket heater core worked great.
     
  8. Aug 4, 2020 at 6:28 AM
    #158
    JohnLakeman

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    IIRC, the warmer/cooler is supply is off the coolant flow TO the heater core, and the return flow from the warmer cooler is to the return FROM the heater core? In other words, the warmer/cooler is "wired" in parallel, not in series. :D

    Just keep in mind, that to have flow, you must have pressure difference. Coolant will flow from higher pressure to lower pressure. If the pressure is the same on both connections, you will have no flow.
     
  9. Aug 4, 2020 at 6:29 AM
    #159
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    Yep...egggzzactly what I was thinking. I've also seen tiny radiators for sport bikes. Alternatively an oil cooler with large inlet and outlet diameters would work.

    Thinking about going with a simple heater core for an old chevy truck.
     
  10. Aug 4, 2020 at 6:31 AM
    #160
    Dragracer_Art

    Dragracer_Art New Member

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  11. Aug 4, 2020 at 6:41 AM
    #161
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    The hockey puck inlet is from the outlet of the heater core. It is downstream. This is verified in person on my 19 and toyota coolant flow documents.

    See post #2

    https://www.tundras.com/threads/doe...t-flow-direction-on-a-5-7.58974/#post-1547127


    If there is enough DP to get through the existing heater core, and enough to support flow through radiator, then there should be enough to support flow through another heater core. Its at least worth trying. Simple experiment and low cost. Chevy heater core, clamps, about 10 ft of hose, and a fabbed up bracket.
     
  12. Aug 4, 2020 at 6:43 AM
    #162
    timsp8

    timsp8 Former Tundra owner for 13 years

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    Until they removed the atf cooler in 2019, official Toyota documentation called it a warmer. This is just one example from a Toyota manual.

    77F0C406-BD66-467D-8BF0-27D21BC9EDB1.jpg
     
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  13. Aug 4, 2020 at 6:49 AM
    #163
    Dragracer_Art

    Dragracer_Art New Member

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    Excellent info !

    Looks easy enough to bypass the coolant through a heat exchanger if needed to drop coolant temps into the puck.
     
  14. Aug 4, 2020 at 6:49 AM
    #164
    timsp8

    timsp8 Former Tundra owner for 13 years

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    I added another cooler in line with the stock cooler in my 2010. It helped with temps. It created more surface area to dissipate heat. Most people talk about max temps, but usually you’re only at the highest temp for a short period of time. More cooler surface area helps dissipate heat overall and can keep up better.

    It’s like having a fast car. Does that mean high top speed or fast 0-60 times?
     
  15. Aug 4, 2020 at 6:51 AM
    #165
    timsp8

    timsp8 Former Tundra owner for 13 years

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    Yeah. I think if you just put a U connector in there and tie it off would work. Everything I’ve read says higher trans temps was to squeeze out more mpg. So I guess Toyota tried something to get it up to 190 range faster. Even though like you said, just driving will do that.
     
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  16. Aug 4, 2020 at 7:44 AM
    #166
    JohnLakeman

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    If you've traced the lines on your 2019, then your conclusion is as valid as your tracing. I can't even see my warmer/cooler pipes without a lot more motivation.

    My point was you can't tee into either one of the lines to the heater core, two inches, six inches, 12 inches, whatever apart, and expect to have any flow through the tees. You have to tee into the pipe supplying coolant to the heater core, and tee the other connection into the pipe returning coolant from the heater core. Otherwise, you will have no pressure differential.

    I'm not smart enough to reinvent Toyota's wheel. Wrenching parts already invented is more my speed, and in my mind easier than what you envision. Minimal deviation from proven solutions provides highest likelihood for success. But, good luck with the experiment.
     
  17. Aug 4, 2020 at 7:48 AM
    #167
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    not a tee. in series.
     
  18. Aug 4, 2020 at 8:10 AM
    #168
    JohnLakeman

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    You're saying your plan is to disconnect the heater core return hose and extend that coolant hose to an air-to-coolant exchanger (with a fan, somewhere under the hood?). Then, run the super-cooled engine coolant back to the "puck", then, return the outlet from the "puck" back to the coolant return pipe? And, that's supposed to be easier and simpler than Toyota's design? o_O But, yes, flow wise, that could also work.
     
  19. Aug 4, 2020 at 8:10 AM
    #169
    Dragracer_Art

    Dragracer_Art New Member

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    Like this:

    77F0C406-BD66-467D-8BF0-27D21BC9EDB1.jpg
     
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  20. Aug 4, 2020 at 8:12 AM
    #170
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    yep.

    simpler than reinstalling whole thermostat system and heat exchanger
     
  21. Aug 4, 2020 at 8:13 AM
    #171
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    see dragracer's sketch
     
  22. Aug 4, 2020 at 8:24 AM
    #172
    JohnLakeman

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    Schematics are simple, but sometimes executing the brainstorm with hardware less so.

    Shoe-horning that big azz metal box with tube and fin exchanger (plus fan) anywhere, even in the grill area, will test anyone's ingenuity. Then, that cooler must remove enough heat from 200 degree coolant to have enough temperature differential to force that pissant warmer/cooler to do any significant cooling on 250 degree transmission fluid. Experimenting is fun. Go for it. :thumbsup:
     
  23. Aug 4, 2020 at 1:44 PM
    #173
    TTund16

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    pretty sure in this thread I told him that he may have a bad thermostat ...
     
  24. Aug 4, 2020 at 2:25 PM
    #174
    TTund16

    TTund16 New Member

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    Back to the puck removal/bypass question someone asked earlier ...

    My understanding is that the puck is used to initially warm-up the trans fluid which is not a bad idea in very cold winter days and/or if you lived in Canada or Alaska ... That's why Toyota also calls it "ATF Warmer" on this diagram.

    However, lets forget about the functionality of it and lets just concentrate on bypassing the puck. Maybe you live down south where you don't see very cold winter days and you don't want the puck. We are talking about the models that have trans cooler/radiator ...

    Now I am not a real mechanic but if the goal is to bypass the puck, can't you just remove the coolant hoses (in/out) from the puck and connect them back together (or seal them off?) and also close off (seal) the puck in/out ports?

    On paper it looks like an easy task. I think my co-worker did this but he left the company. I need to get a hold of him and find out.
     
  25. Aug 4, 2020 at 3:02 PM
    #175
    JohnLakeman

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    What year, engine Tundra do you have, and does it have the tow package?
     
  26. Aug 4, 2020 at 3:25 PM
    #176
    timsp8

    timsp8 Former Tundra owner for 13 years

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    Yeah. I think if you just put a U connector in there and tie it off would work. But if you have a 19+, that removes all “cooling” Toyota designed. I think if your trans went out and Toyota saw it, they’d blame you. But you could just remove it before taking it in.
     
  27. Aug 4, 2020 at 3:29 PM
    #177
    TTund16

    TTund16 New Member

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    Mine is a '16 with tow package and the old-fashioned trans cooler with radiator. Same as my co-worker and the op.

    I was thinking about bypassing the puck but never did ... I am pretty sure my co-worker did. If you live in warmer areas (no need for atf warmer) and don't want additional heat dumped into the atf, then it doesn't sound like a bad idea.

    mainly interested in knowing how easy it is to do. Doesn't seem like a difficult task.
     
  28. Aug 4, 2020 at 3:36 PM
    #178
    TTund16

    TTund16 New Member

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    Yes, I won't recommend it for the models ('18? and up) that the puck is also intended for "cooling" (another subject/story) ...

    I may seriously consider it after my warranty is over unless I move to places with very cold winters.
     
  29. Aug 4, 2020 at 3:55 PM
    #179
    CDinSeFl

    CDinSeFl New Member

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    What a great post. So informative. Thanks to all who contributed.
     
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  30. Aug 4, 2020 at 4:27 PM
    #180
    JohnLakeman

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    (1) Thermostat and warmer/cooler must remain in place due to o-ring sealing. I am pretty sure you have no other options on this.

    (2) Pin/safety wire the thermostat open for continuous flow to the cooler.

    (3) Install heater hose loop on warmer/cooler from coolant inlet to coolant outlet. (See blue line on diagram)

    Edit: Hose loop in (3) is not essential, but if the coil inside the warmer/cooler fails, it will prevent all your transmission fluid from running out on the ground.

    (4) Connect coolant supply hose from engine to coolant return hose. (See blued line on diagram)

    This accomplishes what you want to do by removing the heat input into the fluid. Since the warmer/cooler is sealed to the thermostat with o-rings, transmission fluid flow can not bypass the warmer/cooler, but it doesn't have to heat the fluid. Just be sure to secure the heater hose so it doesn't hang up on something you drive over, or get in close proximity to the exhaust system.

    Inkeddananderstein2_LI.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
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