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Home Generators

Discussion in 'Home Improvement' started by Silv333, Sep 17, 2018.

  1. Sep 17, 2018 at 8:16 AM
    #1
    Silv333

    Silv333 [OP] Patriot

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    Hey folks, currently I have a portable generator and a switch set up at my house. It can run everything in my house with the exception of the AC.

    With my job, I’m required to travel regardless of the weather, which brings me to my question. How many of you have a “whole home” or “one floor”’generator?

    What brand and size do you have? Worth the investment? Do you remember how much you paid for the install?

    I’m entertaining both options of doing just the first floor to include AC, versus the entire home.

    Thanks for the feedback!
     
  2. Sep 17, 2018 at 8:25 AM
    #2
    Jim LE 1301

    Jim LE 1301 Camaro Lover, SSEM # 11,TTC#179

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    I have a whole house Generac LP 16k with the automatic transfer switch. Think it was about $3,000 but that was about 12 years ago.
     
    757TUNDRA and ARES like this.
  3. Sep 17, 2018 at 8:28 AM
    #3
    TXRailRoadBandit73

    TXRailRoadBandit73 YOTAS,RAILROADIN',RÖKnRÖLLN',BEER,MAX/GEMMA

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    None yet
    Thinking of a Generac myself, know nothing bout em, but like to have one, need to look at one for our needs
     
    Silv333[OP] likes this.
  4. Sep 17, 2018 at 8:31 AM
    #4
    Jim LE 1301

    Jim LE 1301 Camaro Lover, SSEM # 11,TTC#179

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    In my opinion Generac is the best. Nothing to do, it does it all by itself. Just do your research on the correct size.
     
  5. Sep 17, 2018 at 8:39 AM
    #5
    TXRailRoadBandit73

    TXRailRoadBandit73 YOTAS,RAILROADIN',RÖKnRÖLLN',BEER,MAX/GEMMA

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    None yet
    Thx
     
  6. Sep 17, 2018 at 9:09 AM
    #6
    Silv333

    Silv333 [OP] Patriot

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    Copy, thanks. I’ll probably go natural gas. It seems with a whole home generator the estimated cost is $72/day. My thoughts are, during extreme times, do I really need my whole house powered or just the first floor. For the first floor it would be $36 day, which seems easier on the budget.
     
  7. Sep 17, 2018 at 9:25 AM
    #7
    vader7071

    vader7071 New Member

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    Guys, I am an electrical contractor, currently installing 8 emergency generators for assisted living facilities in South Florida, with 2 more in the pipeline. So I have a wee bit o' experience with this.

    Do you "NEED" and full house generator? That is up to you. Do you want to shell out the money for a transfer switch, generator, and then the money to have it installed by a licensed contractor?

    Or, there is the "poor man's" setup. I installed a 50 amp breaker and welding plug into my panel. I then got me a generator that would power what I needed (fridge/freezer, a few plugs, some fans/lights, and stove). When I lose power, I shut off the main breaker, plug in the genset to my welding plug, and turn off all the breakers that have been marked "non critical". Crank the genset, then turn on the 50 amp breaker, and I have power. Costs a lot less than a full bore, whole house setup.


    The question here is "Can you easily isolate the 1st floor from the second?" If you can flip 1 or 2 breakers and kill everything upstairs, and do this through the automatic transfer switch, then it isn't too bad. But if you have to turn off half of the breakers in your house, and you are away from home with an automatic transfer switch, and the power goes out, the generator will be trying to power everything that is on, and could destroy the generator. Got to be careful here, making sure the "load shedding" is setup correctly.

    If you go the route of the manual transfer switch, it alleviates the issue of the whole house coming on from the generator, just got to make sure you isolate as you need to and not overload the genset.
     
    lc69hunter, eiraved, rons23 and 7 others like this.
  8. Sep 17, 2018 at 9:43 AM
    #8
    aRabidLunatic

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    Completely new at this but dont you have to make sure you don't feed back into the power lines?

    Also, how far from your house is your generator? My electrical panel is inside my attached garage. Any suggestions?
     
    Copper Man likes this.
  9. Sep 17, 2018 at 9:56 AM
    #9
    vader7071

    vader7071 New Member

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    Yup. Hence the step "shut off the main breaker" ;) This makes sure I am isolated from the utility company and don't back feed the grid.

    My 50 amp receptacle is in my attached garage as well. Here the trick is just make the extension cord between the genset and the plug as long as you need. If you want to keep the genset in the garage, make the cord about 20 to 30 feet. if you want it outside and away from everything, make the cord about 100 feet. Just keep in mind, the longer you make the cord, the bigger the wire you have to use.
     
  10. Sep 17, 2018 at 9:59 AM
    #10
    Danimal86

    Danimal86 Looks clean even when its dirty!

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    I have two 2kw generators that I can parallel.....that count?
     
  11. Sep 17, 2018 at 10:14 AM
    #11
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    Great response.

    Some areas need more “whole” house than others, that’s for sure.

    I have seen areas like the NE get hammered with snow and be without power for a week or so. Other areas that get extreme storms like the SE part of the country. These places probably might be without power for more than a few days to over a week. I can see these areas with good, custom setups like you install. Worth. Every. Penny.

    Kansas with its ice storms really can be bad snapping miles of power line poles. Never seen nothing like it.

    Where I live, the average power outage is 30-45 min. The longest we have seen is two days without power (I did linework) since moving to CO in 97’.

    Like you suggested, the “poor mans” setup is a great idea and can support critical items. This is on my list of things to do. I have a generator (buying another to run in parallel) and having this installed. Also increases property value in my opinion, either way someone goes.
     
  12. Sep 17, 2018 at 11:16 AM
    #12
    vader7071

    vader7071 New Member

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    No. You cannot parallel generators (OK, you "can" but it requires all sorts of high dollar specialized equipment).

    If you can divide the panel and isolate sections from each other, you can use 2 generators, but there can be no connection between the 2 generators, other than the ground.
     
  13. Sep 17, 2018 at 11:19 AM
    #13
    vader7071

    vader7071 New Member

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    Bad juju dude. You can't parallel generators. There are phasing issues, voltage offset issues, bonding issues. You can isolate and run one panel from one genset and run another panel from another genset, as long as there is no connection between the 2. Only the ground can be connected between 2 generators. Nothing else.
     
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  14. Sep 17, 2018 at 11:23 AM
    #14
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    So I can’t use this for one panel?

    https://www.absolutegenerators.com/reliance-parallel-kit-for-honda-portable-inverter-generator

    Bummer if not.
     
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  15. Sep 17, 2018 at 11:35 AM
    #15
    vader7071

    vader7071 New Member

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    That is the "high dollar specialized" equipment I was talking about. Normally I see equipment like that for BIG BIG BIG gensets.

    It looks like Honda made the EU3000iS model specific to be paralleled. In this case, yes, that box, with *ONLY* those generators will work. Howevah, you run the trouble of only 120 Vac. So, no stove, no water heater, nothing in the house that uses 240Vac, and you will need to make sure that every 2 pole breaker is off. Couple this with the fact that 1/2 of your house will be down as well. So you may find that the refrigerator runs, but the freezer won't (because it is on the other phase). So you may have to bounce a few devices around the house to get them to come on.

    The difference between the setup you are looking at vs say this generator is that the eb6500 is 240Vac output as well, so it can power anything that is 240 Vac, and it heats up both phases in your power panel. The paralleled EU3000iS is 120Vac only. Even paralleled.

    And a quick price check, an EU3000iS plus the parallel unit will run about $2,300 and give you 120Vac at 50 amps
    The eb6500 runs about $2,700 and gives 120/240Vac at around 50 amps.

    So for an extra $400 (17% of the EU3000iS setup) you get a better and easier system setup.
     
  16. Sep 17, 2018 at 11:38 AM
    #16
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for your time and expert advice on this topic. Appreciate that.
     
  17. Sep 17, 2018 at 12:20 PM
    #17
    vader7071

    vader7071 New Member

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    Generac is not too bad. I have installed a few of them commercially. Normally I install the big boys (Cummins, Caterpillar, Kohler), but Generac on smaller installations seem to do well.

    One thing to keep in mind. A *FULL LOAD* house (200 amps at 240 V) will be about a 50KW generator. There are ways to size it to get that generator smaller and help alleviate some cost though.
     
  18. Sep 17, 2018 at 12:37 PM
    #18
    trdprobped17

    trdprobped17 New Member

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    Generac Guardian 22kW standby generator. Generac is the best there is.
     
  19. Sep 17, 2018 at 12:39 PM
    #19
    War Machine

    War Machine SSEM # 5 3MW

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    Give me a shout if you get serious about it. I can recommend some reliable installers. I do sell Generac, but not a ton. Online sellers make it where I can’t make much profit, and they take up too much space in my warehouse. It’s really just not profitable business for us.
     
  20. Sep 17, 2018 at 12:46 PM
    #20
    Silv333

    Silv333 [OP] Patriot

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    Thanks Vader for sharing your knowledge! Yes sir, I’d divert to you for advice. Right now, I have the "poor mans setup", but if I'm traveling for work, I prefer my wife to not have to do anything and she'll have power. With your feedback, I'm leaning towards the Generac 22kw mentioned above. They're selling at some places for around $3,000. Hit me up on a DM to discuss recommended installers. Thanks again for your advice, these days it's hard to trust certain places.
     
  21. Sep 17, 2018 at 12:53 PM
    #21
    War Machine

    War Machine SSEM # 5 3MW

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    They definitely own the residential market. For a few years, we were selling “Eaton” generators. They were literally Generac generators with Eaton labels on them. Some even shipped to us from Generac with an Eaton sticker in place of theirs. Same pricing, same everything. It just simplified things for us as a big Eaton distributor.
    People were NOT having it. They wanted Generac. Did not believe us that they were the same product. They wanted that sticker on it. I had customers asking if I could get the damned Generac stickers for them to make their customers happy.
    We eventually went back. Just too much of a hassle. There’s a lot of brands like that. It doesn’t matter to people if they are the same. They want that label.
     
  22. Sep 17, 2018 at 1:05 PM
    #22
    trdprobped17

    trdprobped17 New Member

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    That's funny, but I can certainly understand why they want what they want. I have personally used Generac generators overseas in the military and they are very reliable. They are the only ones that I will buy from now on.
     
  23. Sep 17, 2018 at 1:10 PM
    #23
    War Machine

    War Machine SSEM # 5 3MW

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    Oh I know. If they stuck a ford sticker on a Tundra, I wouldn’t buy it either.
     
  24. Sep 17, 2018 at 1:23 PM
    #24
    trdprobped17

    trdprobped17 New Member

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    @War Machine You're certainly right about that. Why not just call a goat, a goat. Don't say that a goat is a sheep because it's a relative of the sheep. :)
     
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  25. Sep 17, 2018 at 1:29 PM
    #25
    War Machine

    War Machine SSEM # 5 3MW

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    Man, sorry to derail this thread here, but that reminds me of one of my favorite jokes my grandpa told me:

    A ventriloquist was driving through the midwest when his car broke down. He walked a ways and found a farmer who would let him use his phone. Well, the farmer seemed to be a real stereotypical rural type, so the ventriloquist thought it would be possible to have some fun with him. The farmer began to lead him back to the house.

    Along the way, they passed a horse. The ventriloquist said to the farmer, "Is this your horse?" The farmer replied, "Yep." The ventriloquist asked, "Can he talk?" The farmer said, "Nope." The ventriloquist then said to the horse, "So, how do you like it here?" He then threw his voice, and said in a horse-like voice, "Oh, it's pretty good. Every morning the farmer feeds me oats." Upon hearing this the farmer was startled and quickened his pace.

    Soon they came to a cow. The ventriloquist asked, "Is this your cow?" and the farmer replied, "Yep." He then asked, "Does it talk?" and the farmer replied, "I..I don't think so." The ventriloquist asked the cow, "How do you like it here?" and threw his voice again. In a cow-like voice, he said, "Oh, I like it just fine. Every morning the farmer comes and milks me." Upon hearing this, the farmer squirmed. He looked down at the ground and continued walking.

    Soon they came to some sheep. The ventriloquist asked, "Are these your sheep?" and the farmer replied, "Yep." He then asked, "Do they talk?" and the farmer exclaimed, "Yes, but they lie!"
     
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  26. Sep 17, 2018 at 1:34 PM
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    trdprobped17

    trdprobped17 New Member

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    There you go :)
     
  27. Sep 17, 2018 at 1:39 PM
    #27
    TXRailRoadBandit73

    TXRailRoadBandit73 YOTAS,RAILROADIN',RÖKnRÖLLN',BEER,MAX/GEMMA

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    None yet
    Will do
     
  28. Sep 17, 2018 at 1:59 PM
    #28
    Silv333

    Silv333 [OP] Patriot

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    Totally worth the derail....
     
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  29. Sep 17, 2018 at 2:52 PM
    #29
    andy9743

    andy9743 New Member

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    This for me. 17k 4500 last summer. I ran the trench myself saved 1500.
     
  30. Sep 17, 2018 at 3:10 PM
    #30
    kcaustin66

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    Something funny I worked at Lowe’s about 13 years, a customer came in asking for a electric generator (his contractor used one at his house) I tried to explain it was probably a Honda since it was so quite. But it had to be gas or propane, no such thing as a electric generator (I replyed if you had electric why would you need a generator) he knew it was electric and not gas of any kind. I tried my best to tell him that it was not available. Since I decided I could not convince him differently, I called tractor supply and told him they had one in stock. Lol
     

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