Has anyone seen this?

Proof? Or are you simply regurgitating what the "safety recall' states? The same recall states "engine process cleaning improvements were made" when we know that has been debunked. That "process improvement" was made over a year ago, yet we continue to stockpile post recall production '23-'24 failures that should have the process improvement implemented.

My recent oil change is proof that they are still installing engines with debris and obvious design flaws. It's reasonable to assume that since the issue still exists well over a year later post recall "improvement" dates, that any Tundra built from day one will probably fail. The mileage will vary of course as some engines have proven to have large amounts of debris, thus failing early. Other failures at higher mileage leads a reasonable person to believe that the debris level was smaller, but the design flaw inevitably caused the failure. Both are flaws that are toxic for any engine and while I'm not a mechanic, I can't imagine will magically help an engine live a long, prosperous life. Just my humble opinion.

 

I don’t think it’s alarmist. It’s just not taking what Toyota is telling us at face value when Tundras outside the recall build date have documented failures, and sometimes multiple failures. To ignore that if you own one would, I think, be foolish. I have a ‘23 outside the recall build range. And while I’m not making any rash decisions, I’m following it closely. And I think the evidence of documented failures and implausibility of Toyota’s explanation tells me this recall will be significantly expanded. Will it mean “every single 22-24 Tundra will experience engine failure” as you say? No. But I think it means every single 22-24 Tundra is at risk of engine failure.

 

Every vehicle produced is at risk for engine failure. These have an identified risk that increases the likelihood, but does not guarantee failure. We’re still looking at less than 1% and many high mileage examples without a failure. Feelings are what they are, risk stratification is different for every person. But the numbers don’t lie.

 

So the deals you were working on to offload yours that you spoke of on the other thread have fallen through? I’m curious as to what dealers (i.e. mfgs, not dealer names) have declined to take yours as trade?

 

^^^THIS

 

I'm not quite certain, but I don't think that counts as "multiple". So far we're aware of two. One of which is an article basically just quoting you.

 

Yes, one Toyota dealers GM stated he does not want to purchase my Tundra..period. So far, I have played serious with 2 GMC dealers who initially got me excited with trade offers to only then discount their truck very little...the old, take money from the new and apply to used to inflate ACV trade. For reference, Carvana gave me a $65k trade offer, which is a $12k loss in two months. Whiles I expect some depreciation, TRD Pros typically hole their value but I can only assume that word is getting out, faster than I would like. Social Media, and the internet are aiding in awareness of failures and recall. Its only going to get worse.

 

Bingo !

 

On another thread, there were multiple posts from different members (including myself). Again, a reasonable person can assume that Tundras.com is a very small representation of real-world happenings. Therefore, I encourage you to research further, outside this forum, and I think you will be surprised how many different outlets are reported the trade in issue. Its real, and again will only get worse.

 

Disturbing trend, nonetheless. Regardless of which side of the fence you’re on with this issue, we should all hope it doesn’t “catch on”. Snowballing bad PR will kill all of our resale values, even if this issue turns out to not be so bad and there’s an easy fix. It could eventually kill any future viability of the model.

 

I will ask again, source for your less than 1% failure rate? Or, subconsciously are you wanting to believe that number for justifiable reassurance? I agree numbers don't lie, unless they are skewed or inaccurately represented.

 

I kind of look at it the other way, If I was shopping for a 2024 tundra, the dealer lots have plenty of new inventory. Would I even consider buying a used 24 that's not going to have the promotional APR that a new one would have? With lots full of inventory I could see why people would be turning away or low balling current model year trades.

 

I agree 100%. It appears that social media and news outlets are licking their chops at the opportunity to scream at the world about not only the poor 3rd gen QC issues but safety recall and trade in issues as well. I believe the bad PR stems from an opportunity to discredit Toyota due to perceived superiority and historic chart-topping reliability. Coupled with the recent admission of lying from Mr. Toyoda himself, Toyota is not doing a good job of retaining its legendary status. Thus, the loyal diehard fans of opposing brands are taking their shots. But to your point, if this continues to gain momentum and unfortunately, I believe it will, then resale values will continue to plummet and we will either lose a huge chunk of money when and if we can trade, or we bit the bullet and see this through. I am attempting to accomplish the first option but am having difficult success without losing my ass. The second option isn't appealing because again, the local Toyota Midas techs don't comfort me when thinking of the impending truck and engine disassembly and reassembly. At that point, lord knows how many subsequent issues will follow. All around, this sucks for all of us.

 

Don't worry, in 2 months when they have to start paying on them they'll lower the prices.

 

It's a bad look for a Toyota dealer to flat out refuse a trade of a Toyota though. What’s the message here? “We want you to trust this new Toyota truck we’re trying to sell you. But don’t bring it back to us if you want to buy a new one. We aren’t going to lowball you on a trade…we just don’t want it.” It's one thing for a different mfg to say that because they want you to think their Ford/Chevy/GMC/Ram is better than your Toyota. But that’s disturbing coming from ANY Toyota dealer. I wonder what corporate would think about that. Kinda undermines their message on this recall being limited in scope and low risk.

 

Toyota also has a ton of money invested in the Nascar truck series where they run the Tundra name and many of the races use Tundras as pace cars. If the bad PR snowballs and they poison the name, they stand to lose more than just customer dollars. They’ll lose their investment in that series as well. That bad PR could then even carry over to the Xfinity and Cup series where they run the Camry name.

 

Click the persons name, click ignore . Available to everyone smart enough to figure it out. It's not some secret list.

 

Yeah that's a good point I didn't think about. Kind of like when Dealers put markup it looks bad on Toyota. I wonder if this same dealership had markups on tundra's back in 2022.

 

Hell, they all did!

 

Zero skin in the game to sway my view. 824 warranty claims and 166 inquiry’s of some kind for a recall that involves around 105,000 vehicles.

 

And if you want to include all the models as possibly being susceptible to the failure and ignore the statement that was made public about an improved cleaning process, then we have over 200,000 vehicles against that reported failure number dropping it to less than 0.5%.

 

Totally agreed. I don't think they're telling people everything but I would think that's not the first time. But having said that anyone who says they feel sorry for a Gen 3 owner please don't feel sorry for me as I love mine and wouldn't trade it for anything. I also know that if the engine fails under warranty not only will Toyota fix it, but will give me a loner in the meantime. These are the same people who had a recall for rusted frames and disassembled the vehicles and transferred all of it to a new frame under warranty. That totally impresses me.

In addition, if fate says your engine is going to fail, then it will no matter what you own.

 

Let's be realistic about this for a minute and think logically. The recall was announced on basically every new channel I watch and my news feeds are based out of New York City and the tri state area. Significant stations that ran the story. How many of the consumers that bought this truck since it's inception with the affected engines are stressing like everyone on this and every other tundra forum? Your basic consumer sees the recall and will probably say, "let's take the other car today in case the Tundra breaks down on our trip out of town." It's always the fear spread on these forums that drive the insanity and usually only the ones that read the forums that get butt hurt when someone says it'll happen sooner or later and you bought a lemon. Dealerships that don't want to take a Tundra in on trade because of the recall have every right to do so, especially with no fix for the problem available. Why take in a vehicle you'll have to sit on till a fix comes out, for all we know that could take 6 months.

They run a business and they decided taking in a recalled Tundra or any other that may be affected down the road is not good for their business, so be it, go find a dealer that has what you want that will take your trade. I think this site is great and everyone seems pretty ready to help or answer questions, but there are the naysayers that feel the need to say the 3rd gen is a total failure.

Here's my response to that...

The truck isn't a failure, the people who put it together are. If the cause of the failures is failure to properly clean it out prior to final assembly go find the people that didn't do their job. I'll put it out there and plenty of people won't like it, but a portion of it comes down to the laziness of the American worker and the lack of pride in their job. My ex-father-in-law worked the line in a GM plant that produced trucks for 30+ years, he was a drunk. He'd tell me stories of how he and his coworkers would sneak liquor into the plant and how probably half the line employees were either drunk or stoned half the time. The Japanese wouldn't stand for that kind of behavior and you'd be out on your ass before you could say you were sorry. The American worker is protected by the union as they should be and much doesn't change. I wouldn't want to work a line but some other might and I respect that, overall someone has to do it and if it's too menial for them there's someone that will. Respect for anyone that works a line and is proud of what they help produce.

 

Ok, so you're basing your claim off the initial recall notice from Toyota as I thought. Makes sense now and I am not trying to sway your view at all. You're going to believe what you want anyway, and I respect your opinion. However, IMHO Toyota's false claim of the improved cleaning process is a smoke screen just like the initial reported numbers. They want us to feel secure, yet it's been proven their numbers are skewed and certainly their claims of process improvement have been proven untrue so respectfully I don't believe anything they say anymore. They are money hungry and if truly focused on safety and our well-being, all units would have been recalled and a stop sale in place until root cause identified and fix in place. Lastly, if the president of the company bows in shame due to admittedly lying multiple times about certification testing, how can we trust anything Toyota says or does anymore? That is where the bling loyalty and denial comes in for many folks because God forbid almighty Toyota do such a thing when we admire them so much. And, the old reassurance of our purchase decision will often time kicks reason and logic out the window.

 

Agree with everything you've mentioned except the fact that the V35's assembled in Japan are also having this issue. I think either the standard cleaning process itself that is implemented company wide is not adequate or this is a design problem....

 

I’m Just waiting for Toyotas answer to this issue and stayin out of all this DRAMA

 

I haven't read up on it enough, no idea where the engine is produced/final assembly takes place etc, figured there was only one location. If there's multiple locations affected then yes, it's the process. But where is QC, in all this, is it something that should have been caught by QC or a part failure degrading causing the debris that could not have been caught at the plant? Again, I know ilof the recall but not the root of the problem, only that it's done kind of debris.

 

Great point and having been to Japan last year on a business trip and having toured several auto manufacturing facilities while there, I would bet my soul to the devil that the Japanese meticulous cleaning processes surpass if not far exceed that of the Alabama facility. Of course, that is assuming we are talking about simple, cleaning processes that if done correctly, properly eliminate debris. IF the process itself is flawed and identically followed by both facilities (which could be a possibility), then I could see how the defective engines are being produced at both locations.

I wish I was smart enough to understand the dynamics behind the V35A engine so that I could eliminate the possibility of a design flaw IF the debris issue was not prevalent. I truly believe, using every ounce of education, intelligence, instincts, and logic I can fathom, that the only way to safely and definitively satisfy the NHTSA recall and eliminate the root cause is a complete long block engine replacement along with associating parts (turbos, etc.). Looking at my recent oil change is disturbing, and I can't imagine how many affected parts have debris circulating through them. Therefore, I have to believe that ANY part of the engine that has oil flow running through it would have to be replaced. If so, this is going to be a huge undertaking as Toyota, unlike domestic dealers, have a smaller footprint in the U.S. with under 1500 locations. So, we have to be talking years to make this right, correct?

 

I don’t think that Toyota exists anymore. Since then they paid a $180M fine for lying to the EPA for a decade, and just this year admitted to lying to Japanese regulators about fudged emissions testing for decades. I think the “old Toyota” would probably have done the right thing, even if it means a quarter million new engines. I don’t have that same faith in today’s Toyota. Based on their actions, I don’t think Akio Toyoda runs the company with the same honor and integrity his grandfather and father did. But we’ll see. They have a lot to lose with this.

 

Every ICE manufacturer fudges the emission tests, not just Toyota