General Supercharger Thread

No emblems as its in sleeper mode.

 

sleeper mode...pshhh

I'm the dude in the right hand lane going 58mph.

I could literally be sleeping!

 

My supercharger must be broken... It only attracts the attention of other dudes

 

Buahahaha

 

Knock feedback is just asking for some more advance spark.i may throw 5 degrees in the cells where it's advancing. Completely off the RTD tune and im seeing much better knock feedback values. would consistently see up to -4/-5 and A/F of 11.5 WOT, injDC maxing out! still have power on the table for im demanding a rich PE and stock advance tables, other then the low octane map. Also boost reference is a must imo. Fuel delivery seems much more linear when pulling through rpms. Dayco belt otw, thanks @helidave! Figure I can throw on the 86mm, log, adjust or say fucc it and go straight to the 70mm. Not gonna lie that bastard scares me when I look at it. @Wynnded hows the 70mm treating you?

 

I think these things would wake up with some timing

 

For sure especially where the knock feedback is advancing. In my log above it was gradually advancing all through my high throttle/WOT runs. Have a lot on the table for adding and interpolating through full throttle loads. Granted these are stock FFV timing tables.

 

No issues. Buuut, it was time to put on the studded snows, and I make it a point to try to not trash them. I honestly haven't been doing anything but errands as needed, been quite busy and there are a lot of tourists on the roadways, so not a lot of opportunity. I've been wanting to try to dial in the PE better after having changed to boost referencing the FPR. I'd like to do more to understand and tune timing too, I just need to find the free time.

On the tangent of my Innovate Boost/AFR gauge, the AFR reading froze on me this past weekend. It simply indicated 11.4, the boost portion still functioned though. I checked the stock O2 sensor reading with a WiFi dongle connected to my phone and those readings were normal, so I know it was something to do with the WB. It was fine after a shutdown and restart. Just the first time I've notice that happen. I may need to put a new sensor on the shelf if it keeps it up, to change out.

 

The other day, I noticed that my installer didn't hook up the FPR to boost reference. I emailed Whipple to ask them for a recommendation as their intake has provisions for the N/A reference. They said "You will want a boost reference for the fuel pressure... If you reference the air tune, this will only see vacuum and will not regulate as it should."

I'm glad you guys brought it up a little a while back or I wouldn't have had a clue; reading through the discussion, I'm surprised it isn't standard. If I understand it correctly, referencing boost will increase the fuel pressure pound for pound (kind of) for boost. So fueling while in boost is more linear according to the the air flowing through the MAF? Else, the vehicle wants to add more fuel under load, but has a harder time stabilizing AFR depending on whether or not you are actually in boost? I'm trying to put the pieces together so please tell me if I'm misunderstanding it.

Edit: just read a reply from Sniv. He said it's definitely a good thing so I win. And I might be able to back off Power Enrichment a little. I suppose that brings up another question - when do you guys have PE set to kick in?

 

Also as a bit of an aside, I've been able to get my Innovate gauge to talk with my MPVI3 via a ProLink+ connector and display the Wideband AFR in HP Tuners. It was surprisingly less difficult than I expected. I'm sure I just got lucky on that one. But, does anybody know if it can also push MAP data as well? The ProLink has two analog inputs so technically it could take handle another gauge communication.

 

This is what I got from Innovate. I run aem but should be able to pull it from white wire from the map sensor and ground to your prolink.

Steve L. (Innovate Motorsports)

Dec 11, 2023, 09:03 CST

Mike,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner as I didn't see this until now. The MAP sensor would have a white wire you can splice into to acquire the data.
Thank you,
Steve L.

Innovate Motorsports Technical Support (M-F 8am-5pm Central)
Innovate Motorsports

 

Well that just sounds too easy...

I mean, the Wideband was just at the red wire so... I guess I can try that..

Did I say red wire? I mean't yellow.

 

Also with boost referencing give it a little bit to settle in with the ecu. It seemed to learn the new change in PE and would settle out. I'm pretty dialed in now but I had to adjust a few times to find the right PE level at the different rpm's. I'm in PE a little early around 22% or earlier? as I was already at 4psi. So @snivilous dialed that part in.

 

I believe itll pull from stock 43 psi up to 60 psi at the FPR with full boost. From what I understand the fuel injectors won't hit injDC as bad with the extra vacuum created by the boost on the FPR. I may be inncorrect though.

 

I've had the freeze issue on A/F also. It's real random and is back to normal after a shut down and restart. Kinda annoying.

 

Ha. I knew I wasn’t that lucky! I’l email Innovate and ask for clarification.

 

Is that the white wire coming off the map sensor itself where your mechanical boost is connected? I inquired where you need to pick up the boost reference wire. Innovate responded that it is the white wire off of the map sensor itself for the required signal. Clarify about the yellow for boost signal. Geez hope it's not bad info from their technical person.
Send them a screen shot of that reply. I hate getting bum info!

 

No problem! The above is for the main harness for the gauge itself; the yellow wire on the main wiring harness is an analog output - but there is only one analog output. I might dig in to the harness and tap the wire wire coming off the sensor itself; it's just a simple 3 wire connection, but I'd have to unwrap the factory harness to access it. Shouldn't be too difficult.

Next challenge is figuring out how to program it. The Wideband had a preloaded configuration in HP Tuners but there are a limited selection for boost sensors, most of which are AEM and listed as 1-4 Bar of boost; the PSB-1 MAP is a 4 bar BUT that's -1 to +3 Bar and I didn't see one setup as such in my cursory glance. I don't see the boost to voltage setup in the manual like they list AFR to voltage. Maybe Innovate can provide more detail on that.

 

I had to search online forums for the formula for my aem gauge for afr. Even now I'm off a few tenths.

 

Anybody else think it's weird the the PSB-1 displays vacuum in In.HG but boost is PSI? I mean, it's not a big deal, just funny to me that at 0 the gauge switches to PSI. I would think they'd stick to the same units...

Anyways, I did a little maths and came up with a formula for the PSB-1 MAP sensor: should be (.086655V/psi)-14.24. I'm going to try tapping the white wire and loading this in to HP Tuners. I think I'm in the ballpark as most other MAP sensor formulas are ~.08V/psi with a correction factor. Innovate lists the MAP sensor range as -29"HG to +43.5 psi, which, converting "HG to psi, we get -14.24psi to 43.5psi with a total spread of 57.7 psi. So assuming the total voltage swing 0-5V, then 5V/57.7 = .086655 and finally add our correction factor of -14.24 psi since thats where we start at 0v. We'll see if it works.

 

All boost gauges are like that. Vacuum is measured in inHg. If running a vacuum gauge on an Na setup all vacuum gauges read in inHg as well. And sorry maybe i missed an earlier post but what are you trying to do with all the math?

 

I'm trying to get HP Tuners to read the signal from the MAP sensor through my ProLink+ so I can read boost/vacuum data while datalogging in HP Tuners.

The white wire IS THE RIGHT WIRE @Mdl . My formula is a little off so there must a be a non-linearity or voltage offset built in to the gauge. The formula above puts me about 2 psi high at -4.4"HG (ignition on, car off) and about 4 psi high at idle with the gauge reading -21.x"hg. So it must be in my formula (the V/.086655).

 

Ah ok.

 

So, the formula above isn’t working well. I started playing the guess and check game and ended up with v\.077 with an offset of -17.24 instead of -14.24. Puts me closer to the ballpark and close to correct at the pressures above idling and vehicle off. Still need to fine tune but looking around the inter webs I’m seeing similar map sensors maxing out voltage at 4.65 volts which would put my constant around .08, so I’m getting closer. Just need to figure out the offset. Luckily, if I’m close enough at -21”hg and almost spot on at -4.4”hg, I shouldn’t be too far off with the max 5psi of boost I’m seeing (altitude and stock pulley).

 

Heard back from Innovate. And I quote, “Unfortunately, there is not.”

Umm, ok.

 

What was the question? The formula to translate the sensor data to HPTuners?

 

Nevermind, I see...so you've already got the AFR logging and trying to get the MAP logging as well?

 

I saw online that there wasn't a way to do so. I just asked which wire off the map sensor can I pick up the boost reference signal. Guess there was good technician. Because it is converting the physical to electrical...

 

I asked two questions: for confirmation that the white wire would work to pull signal for HPT and for a formula to transform that signal in to useable and correct data.

I was able to get the signal pushed over via the white wire off the sensor as @Mdl suggested. My crude formula above gets me in the ballpark as far as boost numbers showing correctly in HPT but it’s still a little off. I was wanting to see the two extra inputs from the PSB-1 when I data log - which I was able to do successfully. Nice thing about the MPVI3 is that with the $50 prolink hardware, you can pipe two external analog signals and two (I think) can bus signals in to the the module, which will data log without the computer hooked up when setup to do so. Push one button to start and stop it, then pull the device and export to computer when you are back home. I don’t know if it limits the amount or frequency of that data collection - maybe @snivilous can chime in whether or not those logs looked truncated or incomplete in any way. Setting up the prolink and HPT was surprisingly less complicated than I thought it would be.