General Supercharger Thread

Highly recommend this mount which requires no modification. Check out my post here:

https://www.tundras.com/threads/general-supercharger-thread.85513/page-390#post-3390933

 

So, seeing as how HP Tuners doesn’t actually read the tune loaded in to the ECU and, instead, pulls the file from a repository.. what’s the chance that the file is just incorrect?

 

It's not incorrect.

The math (definition) for that parameter is just scaled differently than the other calibrations, and thus, it's displayed differently in the software. The actual code in the binary is the same as all the other Calibration IDs.

 

Good to know. Any insight on the missing transmission parameters? I would really like to have those parameters modified - with or without the supercharger. I am curious as to why my '13 would have what appears to be an older ECU or calibration. It was serviced at the dealership for a couple of years after I bought it (new) and has had a few ECU updates in or around that time. The AIP update stands out in my mind and I recall the new whooshing noises after shutting the vehicle down. But that may have been shortly after I purchased it. Either way, I believe the dealership has to update the ECU whenever they make changes like that or even service the vehicle - yes?

 

What is your Calibration ID/Operating System?

 

Pfft smaller pulleys....

 

Parasitic drrrrrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggg!

 

More whine that an exwife convention.

 

OS : 30CJ64

Do need to connect to the vehicle to see the calibration ID?

 

@JustDSM - I've been reading through your post over at TacomaWorld and happened upon this:

"Adding a TRD/Magnusson S/C and tune after tuning your truck in Natrually Aspirated form:
The biggest "gotcha" that comes up fairly regularly is folks wanting to get tuned while their truck is still naturally aspirated, but have plans to add the TRD/Magnusson supercharger at some point in the future. This situation poses some unique drawbacks and hurdles that can ultimately end up costing the user more in the long run. While we'll cover a little more in another section regarding Calibration ID's what's important to note here is that the Factory TRD S/C tune (and some of the other aftermarket tunes such as Bully Dog) have a unique Calibration ID that is different than the naturally aspirated tune your truck was originally programmed with. This poses a problem (and potentially two) for individuals wanting to tune their trucks before fitting the supercharger. As mentioned the licensing is tied to the Calibration ID in addition to the two other variables listed above, so if the Calibration ID changes, you must re-license the configuration by using an additional 4 credits to license the Supercharger specific Calibration ID. Additional complications can arise for some Calibration ID's in that the TSB update tune from Toyota (or as part of the HPTuners reflash) renders the ECU ineligible for conversion to the TRD Supercharger Tune. This is typical on 2012+ ECU's. The earlier 2005-2011 ECU's are able to receive the TRD Supercharger tune despite the TSB updates."

Does this hold true for the Tundra ECU as well? Reason I ask... Dealership is installing my SC right now and there was some confusion as to who was providing a tune for the vehicle as I ordered the whipple without the RTD device since I already had an MPVI3. I haven't written anything to the ECU yet, so I should be safe from the possibility of making the ECU ineligible for the dealer to install the TRD tune. BUT.. if they dealer by chance updates the ECU to the TRD SC tune, that would make my existing tune and the oddities associated with it - the one mentioned above by @snivilous - a moot point? or is it going to complicate things when I go to write over whatever is on the ECU when I get the truck back? Thoughts? Sniv is gonna hate me if he has to help me with another setup... haha.

 

I was wondering this also, if they flash the ECU with techstream to the TRD tune so it's essentially a new ECU, that would probably give you an ECU without the current issues? Then read/download the new file, modify that, unlock the new ECU configuration, and voila.

 

Exactly. I'm thinking that might be the easy button. Well, for me, anyways. For you... not so much. But I'll make sure you are fairly compensated in generic Oreo cookies and Shasta soda.

 

No sir, the Cal ID/OS are the same thing.

Great Question!

I haven't gone through each year/cal to confirm but there are certain calibrations/years (seems to be centered around the 14-15 MY trucks) that once the latest N/A CUW update is performed, the TRD Calibration CUW will no longer be eligible to flash. So what I wrote above above the 2012+ Tacoma's is the same for some Tundra's (I'd have to sit down and map the Cal ID's out).

I can say your specific Cal ID 30CJ6400 is eligible for an update to the TRD S/C Cal ID via CUW if you choose to do so.

If you did do this, it would change your Cal ID and break the "love triangle" requiring you to relicense.

 

So far, all I've done is read the ECU and download the stock file from HP Tuner's repository. Luckily, I haven't used my credits yet, so I shouldn't need to relicense if they flash the truck with the TRD tune. As far as I understand, that is.. Perhaps I'm luckily that Whipple forgot a part in my box of goodies that they are overnighting to the dealership (props to Whipple).

 

If you've not licensed your device to the 30CJ6400 Cal, you can have the ECU flashed with the TRD tune and license that if you wish or whatever your tuner advises.

3YWF9500 for 2wd
3YWF9501 for 4wd

 

@snivilous first base tune is completed! I shall call it the butter tune! No seriously though your explanations are all on point and everything made perfect sense. I now have a good base and am ready to log. Can't wait to jump in and drive, my trucks been down for a week so I'm excited to hit the road for some data!

 

Glad it could help! Now you'll leap frog me making a second video about datalogging and adjusting stuff and tips and tricks, but that should be a very solid foundation to build from.

 

I will not be leap frogging you at any pointYes sir! Only map I will need to really get done tuning to is the base/HO/LO spark tables. For now I just carried over the TRD maps, utilized the base and copied over to HO map. The timing values seemed a bit excessive in the TRD HOnspark table so figured I'd start low at base and see if I can tweak once I get some good logs show A/F is what I'm targeting, 1.4/10.5. fingers crossed!

 

Yea the timing is what I struggle with the most. The Toyota timing logic is insane, and I've been trying to better wrap my head around it and then push an update to everyone I've tuned with a bit more sophisticated setup. I've seen a couple different methodologies, and there is logic behind the TRD values but I don't use them. Other tunes I've seen just use the stock file timing values. Some just change the HO to cap the max timing. Some change base/HO/LO all together so they match. I don't know what the best solution is. I have a huge spreadsheet I got from Slow N Stock on the HPT forum that I've then further modified that attempts to calculate the timing, but the calculations in it seem wrong in a few spots so still trying to figure that out.

 

Yeah those tables are great for someone with a Dyno! Could adjust until a little knock is read and back of 5 degrees especially in High octane map. Base would be good I would think partial throttle/low boost. low octane seems like whatever High octane is final tune to, then knock off 10 degrees or so through whole map. Idk though. I know timing after a good base tune is where you can make some real good power!

 

What is the practical limit of MAF scaling in terms of a diameter?
Also was the g/m limit 512 or something like that?

Thanks

 

Second question first. The MAF sensor output maxes at 512 "g/s". That's in quotes because if you scale things around, then 512 doesn't matter, which means it's also not a true airflow number. The MAF sensor outputs a voltage, that voltage is converted into a value for calculations. That value has a cap that it can be, it does not however represent a true airflow value.

With that in mind, going back to your first question. The intake diameter is adjusted to keep the MAF voltage in bounds, this is completely different than the actual value output for calculations. My interpretation of your question is essentially what is the maximum diameter without side effects for the MAF? Which I have no idea, but I suspect at a point you start to get the same issues @Mdl has experienced with an overly large throttle body. If you take the diameter to the limit, then you would read effectively no airflow despite having a lot of airflow, so the data accuracy from the sensor would break down and the truck wouldn't run. At what point that happens, I don't know. That supercharger/accessories I installed on that long travel Tundra we put a 5" intake tube on as I recall and it was fine.

 

Copy. This clarifies things for me. Just thinking through for future proofing.

Is the air temp only used for start up? I think that is what we discovered months ago, or is it used in an air density calculation (without humidity factored in)?

Researching some project cars, regarding scaling, it sounds like as you scale up you loose granularity (larger jumps in values) since the tables have a limit on column (not size) and rows.

Thank again.

 

Those questions are above my paygrade. I believe air temp is used for the calculations, but the access to that capability is heavily dependent on the software used. The air temp functionality in HP Tuners is fairly limited, but I remember VFT saying they had quite a bit of control of air temp parameters.

And yes, that is my understanding, and it's not just specific to airflow. As you go up in injector size you lose fidelity since you get more fuel for each minimum amount of pulsewidth that can be commanded, and as you pointed out the amount of data points is fixed so there's more interpolation required. I think that's pretty standard across all stock ECU based vehicles.

Again, above my paygrade though this is already more electrical engineering than I ever intended to do in my life hahaha

 

No I think you are correct on IAT calculations. Reading some Tundra Solutions posts, this is one of the ways some of these performance chips/aftermarket MAFs were getting more power when tuning wasn't available and did so by modifying the temp values read by the ECU. Sounds like they basically leaned out AFRs for some gains.

 

What doesn’t make sense about it all is on a Harrop for example reading true post intercooler IATs, they are always reading 30-50 degrees warmer than if measured at the MAF. Does that make the timing the ECU is running Inherently more conservative on a Harrop since it’s always reading hotter IATs?

 

One thing I noticed with running the 102mm TB is that anything under 3000rpm it used a lot of fuel. But everything still looked good on the tune side.
Reading on the GM based forums I saw that they manipulate the iac temps to help with the increased amount of air volume to get the part throttle drivability back. So it does make sense but it's Greek to me...

 

That 3000 RPM is a curious threshold.

 

76mm pulley installed. Used a

$24 Dayco 5081145 Poly Rib Serpentine Belt

Dayco 5081145 belt. Tried the stock maggy belt first but it squealed pretty bad.

 

Nice! How does she feel vs the 86mm? That is my next install after I get this tune dialed!..... I keep looking at mine whilst reading datalogs