General Supercharger Thread

But this would be irrelevant because we just tuned my old man’s rig, my previous blower with out any of this. To clear things up.. the asks were to add stock items back. This was never the case with previous setups as mentioned.

 

I'm not going to argue it out in public forum. But to say we don't offer custom tuning any longer is simply false.

We have a process, a method, and a VERY specific reason for what we do and why we do it. Our method may be different than what you think is fine or have seen done previously but I assure you it's all for good reason.

Throwing another tune from another truck in yours would be "Cookie Cutter" and that isn't what we do. I'd rather do it right for free than take money and do it half-ass.

I don't know what you were told by our 3rd party retailer, but he was made very clear of what was required/needed to give you a custom tune. All I know is we were told that wasn't in the cards and thus we elected to pass as previously mentioned.

I'm more than happy to speak direct with you if you'd like. PM if you feel discussion needs to be had and I'll give you my personal cell.

 

Happy to have a chat on these new processes that didn’t exist with our recent tune experience. Pm in bound

 

@JustDSM in your own words, can you describe your requirements clientele need to meet before you will tune their vehicle?

The procedures I'm familiar with is you/your company require working from a stock baseline and only changing one variable at a time in the tuning process; essentially eliminating all the unknowns. Is that still accurate?

It is a sound approach to any system's calibration and I understand why it is your policy. Unfortunately many of us cannot revert back to stock components to meet these requirements as a prospective client.

 

Great question! In fact, this is something Rey and I briefly talked about in our conversation a bit ago. I agreed with him and think some clarification might help manage expectations and help our current/future clients better understand our process.

Our approach can be confusing if you don't understand what we're ultimately trying to achieve. And that is an accurate airflow model so the ECU knows precisely the amount of air entering the engine and an accurate fuel model so the ECU can take the airflow data, injector data and produce an injector pulsewidth that meets targets. The accuracy and precision of the data we use to calibrate your individual vehicles is something we take very seriously as it is the foundation. Garbage in = Garbage out.

But to specifically address the "requirements".. There's a level of "depends on this, and depends on that" to fully answer. There isn't a hard list as we take every truck, it's combination of parts, and the owners needs into consideration and determine the best approach to calibrate that individual's project. Ideally, the owner would initiate a conversation with us prior to acquiring the parts to work out the plan ahead of time so we can advise them of any shortcomings of the combination or issues that may arise with tuning a particular combination, but this rarely happens. Most folks come to us with something already built and assembled and want us to make it work. But I'd love to start the conversation with a potential client well ahead of the tune to establish a game plan, iron out any parts combination issues, and lay out the road map for what the process should look like. I'll try and lay out a few scenarios and situations to put some context to how we operate.

• Something like a stock or "bolt-on" N/A Tundra for example. There are very few "requirements" we have for something like this. Where things change is when an aftermarket intake is fitted. We'll log the vehicle and we custom calibrate the MAF curve. So for a N/A truck w/ intake, we will require at least 1 log from you to ensure your MAF calibration is correct for the intake you have fitted.
  
  
• Moving to something like a Stock truck w/ a Maggy fitted. In essence the scenario would be identical to the above, but we log every forced induction vehicle that we tune, so there is no "load and go" operation. Myself or my partner will put eyes on every log that comes across our desk. Your tune might run perfect on our base calibration, we might need a revision or two, maybe 3 depending on what we see. We'll advise you or our 3rd party retailer what we're observing so you are informed of what's going on during the process.
  
  
• Lets say the above guy adds a pulley and larger injectors a month later. The process is functionally the same still. The logging will be conducted but we may have you log at idle instead of drive for the first log or two as we dial in the injector data. But generally speaking same process.
  
  
• A week later you add a custom 4.5" intake and some other stuff. Again, nothing different. same process.. The key to this simple and straight forward approach is the change of 1 variable at a time and we can literally go from Stock to full-build without any "fuss".

Where things get different is when you change something that will affect the airflow and fuel model at the same time. That's where issues arise, as you can no longer accurately attribute a fueling error to an error in the airflow model or the fuel model. We want to (as accurately as the software/hardware will allow) configure the airflow model and fuel model independent of each other. So when you go to change your injectors to something larger a few months down the road, we're not having to go back and rework the airflow model because we incorrectly compensated for the bad data we used in your fuel model initially. We'd prefer to spend the extra time/effort to ensure your models are accurate from day one so any future upgrades or parts changes do not require a full on retune. We can simply rework the injector data when you change injectors..

So it's when we introduce two unknowns into the equation we ask folks to *temporarily* reinstall or refit either the stock injectors or an intake that we have OE data for. By temporary, I mean so we can do a few idle/rev logs. You will not need to drive, or even close the hood with this temporary installation. (If you have questions or concerns about this process, please PM me and we can discuss your specific situation more in-depth) This isolates one of the two variables and allows us to properly dial in your specific combination of parts independent of the other unknown variable.

If you do not have the parts, and given we've had our pre-tune conversations, we could supply an OE airbox to help facilitate the tuning efforts as that is the easiest/quickest change.

Hope this helps.

 

It does. Thanks for taking the time with a detailed response.

 

So I personally have an OTT tune on my 19, I am now going to add a Supercharger ,different air box,and larger injectors can I come back in and have a new calibration done ? You should have all the data from when I was na this is for JUSTDSM......sorry

 

In the instance of going to a Maggy (assuming that's what you're going with), we have good data on those kit injectors and that airbox so we don't need to do the stock airbox swap from what was mentioned above (depends on this/depends on that exception here ) We can get straight to tuning and it'll be a fairly straight forward process.

We did your truck on the dyno in AL correct? We have your file and can build out your tune ahead of time if so required and John can get you flashed.

 

Yea John did the tune but I'm going Harrop,maggie sc box and 650 injectors,company doing the install will tune just want options

 

Put an "@" as you spell the name and it will tag him

 

It won’t be a problem in that config. for us to do. Congrats on your blower!!

 

Thanks

 

Looks like Procharger is now offering a system for the 6.6 L8T GM trucks, joining Whipple. I’d like to see a TVS offering from magnuson or something in the future. https://www.procharger.com/gm-2500h...its-and-systems-now-shipping/?mibextid=Zxz2cZ

 

Whipple on a 7.3 ford.

If something happened to the Tundra.....

https://sdhqoffroad.com/products/20...la-supercharger-system?variant=40263634092132

 

wait....

2650 on a 7.3L

https://www.harrop-usa.com/tvs2650-enigne-kit-ford-7.3l-godzilla/p49

 

Procharger had one in development for Tundra then Rona hit and I think they stopped development.

I think there is a TVS 3100 too. Doubt it will be offered on the 5.7

 

Yeah wouldn’t be much point or benefit for either of those on a tundra IMO. I think they would both have a less usable power under the curve.

 

Do you think this would be all that is needed to adequately fuel the 77mm pulley using the 650 injectors with DW300 pump? Or would that just give more headroom with lower duty cycles due to increased fuel pressure?

 

I think probably both, it’s not that much more air. 3.2% more? It’s probably not even needed, but can’t hurt I figure since it’s an easy swap. It might complicate the tuning adjustments a bit more though. It’s probably only taxing the fuel system more on the colder winter days, might hit 90% duty cycle here and there I figure. Having a 10-11 AFR is probably less critical when the intake air is a colder charge I would imagine.

Thats one question I have I guess is since the pulley size difference is somewhat minimal, as long as my AFR is good after the swap through the whole rev range do I really need to get it retuned? Maybe just take some logs and look at how it is running more closely.

 

agreed. I’m gonna slap on the 77.5 and watch the afr’s

 

I figure if I was considering spending 400-700 bucks on a RCF TB for 10-15hp gain, why not get a smaller pulley for $200ish for the same 10-15hp.

 

Both lol

 

Diderot in the house.


I just received the lower part of the airbox

I get the truck back Thursday. And will put it all together Saturday.

 

I do wonder if I could pick up 30 between both lol. It has to be at 600-620 crank so as it is. Don’t want to go too far into the dicey power territory without a built block budget.

 

I have 650s & the DW300 & a 2.3 pulley and the RCF TB currently running no problem at 50lbs. FWIW

 

Are you still using the stock fuel lines/rails or did you run all AN lines?

 

I bypassed the flex valve and added an AN8 line between the line the oem FPR was to the aftermarket FPR. otherwise, the fuel lines are stock.

 

I can make that happen. Send an email to info@harrop-usa.com

 

send me an email and i can get you that info. Chris.Mentrup@harrop-usa.com