Fox or icon??!!

Pic didnt load the first time.

 

Almost exactly what I just priced.

 

Any reason for camburg over the mcm?

 

I'm running an ADS/Deaver setup from MCM, and I'm about at a 3/1. Might be more like a 3/1.5-2 for a slight rake. It's top notch stuff.

 

Got any pics?

 

My fronts are 2.5's without adjusters, and I'm running a JBA UCA because I wanted an enclosed ball joint. If I was going with a uniball, I would go with MCM. I've never heard of anyone having any type of alignment trouble with his UCA's.

 

I’m running Matt’s ADS/Deaver mid-travel setup. 2.5” coilover up front and 2.5” extended length triple bypasses with Deaver U748 springs in the rear. I do have TC heim joint UCA’s though. I wanted more alignment adjustability.
It’s a great setup, I highly recommend it.

 

Wow those rear shocks look so crazy. I've read about the jba arms. I like the fact that they have a ball joint that could be picked up at any parts house. That being said I've read they have limited travel compared to the uniball?

 

I'm yet to hear that someone doesn't like it. Really starting to lean this way for sure.

 

Yea, replacing the BJ is really easy. I've done it once already (JBA sent me a free set of their new BJ's with improved coating). I'm no expert on the performance differences of uniballs vs ball joints, but this is what JBA has to say on the range of motion between a uniball and their BJ/BJ housing: https://tacoma-upper-control-arms.com/jba_vs_uniball . I take it with a grain of salt.

 

Wow.. that's extremely Interesting. Thank you sir

 

Quite a few running this setup. @UTTundra , @GiantsFanDan , @Tacotundra , @14burrito , myself, that's just off the top of my head.

 

This is a great question, and the same one I spent 3 months researching for our Tundra. I already had a background in shock tuning for street and track cars, dirt bikes, and crotch rockets - so that 3 months of research was solely focused on Tundra-related shock tuning.

We decided on Icon because we prefer the digressive valving.

1. The Tundra is my wife's daily driver
2. We wanted overall handling on the trail and road
3. We're not trying to kill 3 foot whoops like a trophy truck
4. We can kill 2 foot whoops like a bad motherfucker (full disclosure: we have 3.0 coilovers plus bypasses)
5. We wanted a butter smooth ride on the most amount of terrain

The digressive vs progressive valving argument is difficult to understand without going for a ride in trucks with the different valving styles - but that won't stop me from trying to describe it.

Digressive

The shock shaft moves faster and farther, the harder you hit it. So when you smack a speed bump at 40 mph (a small, but high shaft speed event over a small obstacle), the shaft moves super quick through the fluid inside the cylinder and translates very little 'shock' to the frame of the truck. This makes the ride comfy over little stuff at high speed.

The shock is more resistant to slower shaft speed inputs. So when you turn a corner and the truck leans into the shock (a slow shaft speed event), the shaft moves slower through the fluid and holds the truck up. This makes cornering a confidence inspiring affair.

This translates into a stable ride on the street, and a smooth ride over many small bumps off road like washboard or rocky trails (assuming the rocks are 3-5" around and you are cruising over them at speed).

This means that big jumps and large G-outs will put you on the bump stops after blowing through the suspension travel pretty quick. Landing a jump is considered a high speed shaft input, and so the shock will 'get out of the way' fast, and put you on the bump stops (safe, but uncomfortable with stock jounce stops). If you're not trying to imitate BJ Baldwin in a Recoil episode, you're going to be fine for 98.2% of the terrain you'll cross.


Progressive

The shock shaft becomes more resistant to movement the harder you hit it. When you hit that speed bump at 40 mph (high shaft speed event), the shock tries to resist that motion aggressively because it's in the high speed range. This translates a lot of 'shock' to the frame of the truck and makes small stuff uncomfortable at speed. The more the shock resists the motion, the more of that motion gets transferred to your ass in the seat.

In slow shaft speed events like turns, the shock is less resistant and allows the fluid to pass more freely, thus allowing a little bit more roll in corners. I don't mean unsafe by any means. But a progressively valved truck will tend to roll about the center axis a bit before it yaws (changes direction) in a turn, while a digressive truck will tend to change direction (yaw) first, and then roll.

If you are trying to film your own Recoil episodes, you definitely want progressive valving. Remember, landing a jump is a high shaft speed event, and you want the shock to resist blowing through its travel too fast, so the landing can be smooth. Progressive valving will be comfortable on about 1.8% of the terrain you cross.


The best thing you can do is go for a ride in different setups. Let your ass tell you what to buy.

 

If you really want to nerd out, spend a month or two on this site. Click all the links form the home page for info behind the theories.

http://shimrestackor.com/index.htm

Warning: there be math and physics ahead

 

Well said sir. Very very informative. Thank you. I'm sure there are alot of people appreciating that post. That being said, there is pretty much zero options to go for a ride in here in tn.. very few lifted tundras around these parts.

 

Yeah, the lack of available ride along options makes it tough.

Basically,

If you're going to do basic off road trails and a lot of street driving, Icon is probably a better bet.

If you're going to go race through the big hits and whoops, Fox is your choice (but upgrade those weak ass 2.0 in the rear).

 

Informative post @KevinK but I call bullshit on your comfort ratings, 98.2% and 1.8%. Hahaha Come on man, no way is progressive valving that bad or digressive that good on average terrain. If that were the case almost everyone would be running Icon.
That being said I heard from very reliable sources that your truck handled awesome at T2S. Well before the rack issue.

 

You said the key point and that is tuning of the shock. Basically the valving inside needs to be setup for what you want to use the truck for. That is something MCM has done already for the Tundra's and ADS ships the shocks this way. It's also something that Filthy Motorsports will do for you. I'm not sure if SDHQ does this or they send you stock valving that ICON or Fox has done by default.

 

That's a really good explanation Kevin, Thanks. You're one of the reasons I know that I don't know. Hence the caveat, "I don't want to give the impression that I know what I'm talking about."

 

LoL. The progressives definitely don't ride like shit on that 98.2%, but they're not as good as the digressive (pending shock tuning as noted below). The 1.8% is those massive jumps and whoop sections where a digressive setup can't hold a candle to progressives.

The Icon and Fox are already tuned by the factory for the Tundra platform, so it's basically the same as what MCM and Filthy have done, just at the manufacturer level.

And yes, shock tuning is the single most important part of any good suspension. A lot of guys are seeing great success running a flutter stack inside a progressive shock, which leans the shock curve on a dyno chart more digressive in the ride zone, while still having great bottom-out resistance. This is an excellent way to go for someone with the time and energy to invest in proper tuning.

 

Hahaha!

You know enough to get out there and hammer on your truck though, and that's the best part about all this shit. We figure it out as we see what works for us.

 

Found out today the "wobble" in my steering is an inner tie rod. Ordered new inners (555) and the tool. Hopefully that fixes it...... The learning continues, thanks for the inspiration and information.

 

But really King is where it's at. Haha
I also have uniball UCA with 70k on them and they never make noise. I rarely add lubricant to them either. So the noisy uniball story II have yet to figure out. I do live in the desert but never wash my truck.

 

Ahhh, that's why they're not noisy.... well lubed with desert dust......

 

Thanks for all the info, Guys! I'm trying to keep up here.

Please explain how this would be for our trucks. Specifically, as I read along and try to work out differences in digressive, progressive, and whatever-that-third-kind is, I try to apply it to what I'd enjoy: essentially, somewhat technical off-roading (to get cool places, not specifically to do crazy crawling over huge obstacles) at slow to moderate speeds. But occasional romps at higher speeds up dirt roads or dry creeks (40+mph probably), but I use my truck as a daily driver and haul ass on pavement.

So... which will bring me more smooth cushion and comfort at slow to moderate speeds, but be more stiff (for less roll) at high freeway speeds?

Tundra and 4Runner....

 

One more thing: I have an open-mind about ADS because I've read nothing but good on here. But I mentioned ADS in the same sentance as Fox, King, and Icon to a guy I know that used to work for Fox and he rolled his eyes. He was conversant about Fox, King, and Icon but flat out told me ADS wasn't anywhere near the others-- basically not similar in quality or application to even be considered competition. While he sounded kind of arrogant, I understood he meant that, anyone involved in design, manufacturing, or selling the first 3, wouldn't bother anything about ADS as they would another "competitor" because it would never be necessary to know. What do you think- is ADS a secret just known to Tundra enthusiasts or what?

 

Wow this is one informative thread. Clearly I need to do alot more asking and researching before i pull the trigger on this. Thank you guys for all the in depth responses. I too was wondering about them coming tuned from the factory? How is the warranty on things like this?

 

So is that true even with the DCS adjusters On the Fox’s

I just purchased Fox 2.5 0-3” coilovers w/dcs adjusters and Fox 2.5” piggyback w/dcs Adjusters for my 17 CM. Hoping to do the Camburg long travel lowers arms in the next year. Current have the billet Icon UCA’s.