First Gen Lower Ball Joint(LBJ) Failures

Can't remember if I posted this one before, but I stumbled across one that failed out in the desert when I was wheeling.

 

there’s an easier way to take the front wheel off lol (jk)

 

And right here is why you only buy OEM, folks.

This coulda been you, @KNABORES

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That one looks like the nut came off.

 

Nut is on the bottom still attached, the ball on the LBJ definitely got pulled out of the socket. LBJ plate is still on the spindle.

 

Truth. Dodged a bullet with these moogs. They felt okay driving around, but the passenger side had a shit ton of play when removed from the truck and could be clunked back and forth in the ball-socket joint. New OEM ones feel great now.

 

I got in an argument recently on an FB Sequoia page where a guy was blaming people for not greasing the factory ball joints, and that this is a made up issue due to lack of maintenance.

And that’s why I typically stay away from FB. I even linking him to the LBJ 1st Gen support group page lol.

 

I don't even fuck with those people anymore. This short video explains the problem 100%., it's not made up, it's that aftermarket part quality is shit these days, but people choose to have their head up their ass and chalk it up to "hype" when it's plain as day: Aftermarket is cutting corners, but dumbasses on the internet speaking confidently while video evidence like this exists perpetuate people getting duped. Everyone wants to hear "it's OK to buy the cheaper part", when in actuality, it's far more expensive when that cheaper part fails because it's shit quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQWwTB8w2Hk​

 

they say the same shit in the first gen tundras FB page.

80% of the people there are fucking idiots and cucks. It's for entertainment purposes only. Lol

 

Yup, I definitely see a couple of snowflakes on at least one of the FB groups who thinks their shit doesn't stink after getting lucky with aftermarket.

Flukes happen, and too often the naive fucker who has been lucky up-to-now thinks the warnings are bullshit. Such is the case, people fortunate or privileged think the struggle everyone else describes is bullshit.

Too many people like that are chumps/assholes. I hate to wish misfortune on anyone, but sometimes people need a good life-humbling event.

 

I feel attacked

 

Not at all bro. Are you on either the uppercase or lowercase 1st gen FB group? The banter and attitude on them is off the charts.

I mean, you knew. And I was proud of you for sharing how effed up one of your Moog lowers were. You could've just as easily not mentioned that, then called it a day.

I guarantee you one specific person on FB who claims to have 100k+ (or some shit) on his undisclosed-brand aftermarket LBJs would never admit it if he found the same. Doesn't support the bullshit narrative he pushes.

 

Kidding of course, and no, I am not on any FaceBro pages cause I don't have a FacePage account. I use my wife's for marketplace activities only. All of my banter and bad attitude gets puked onto here. And yeah, I knew my LBJs were shit, just thought like all of those other D-Bags it wouldn't happen to me. But I thought about it a lot, and glad that I don't have to worry any longer.

 

you should

 

I did. It's OK, I deserve what I deserve for my actions. I'm a cautionary tale of what not to do sometimes. But I like to live dangerously in some regards. Mostly from a lack of fear, general stupidity at times, and my inherent cheapness / frugalness about things.

 

I resemble these remarks

 

I love when I suggest on FB that they should probably do some research on Tundras.com and they always reply “those guys are a bunch of know it all assholes”

I think I’m on like 4 different Sequoia and Tundra pages, and it must be all the same people.

 

That was sweet of them to say

 

First one to post a rollover wins.

 

Maybe this is off topic but, I don't really think it is. Can anyone think of another design flaw like this from any other vehicle or manufacturer that has such predictable catastrophic failures? Will we ever see a class action lawsuit? I guess these rigs are too old to hope for a manufacturer redesign.

 

Water pumps on the ecoboost, crank position sensor on the 3L Yamaha, cam sprockets on the 3.4L Yamaha, intermediate steering shaft on crown vics. That's a few off the top of my head.

 

Considering Toyota address their original part flaw, and it's not legally a recognized design flaw, and the problem only presents itself due to part ignorance and/or lack of maintenance and/or improper installation, no. You couldn't go after Toyota. Case would never hold up in court. I have zero doubts Toyota's lawyers would defeat it in a second. It's proven these trucks can go 100k miles without LBJ problems on OEM equipment. 100k could be reasonably construed (legally) as a "lifetime" in terms of what other auto manuf'ers are offering.

Now, aftermarket part manuf'ers on the other hand. There's where you'd have the real opportunity. You just need enough people. But they would argue it's an inherent design flaw by Toyota. However, you'd have the upper ground because it doesn't happen with OEM units with all-metal design.

For GM, the 4l60e was a fucking lemon of a transmission that you were lucky to get to 100k-120k miles with regular use. Beat the hell out of it, it may go 60k, I had a cousin who went through 3 4l60e on his Silverado in under 6 years.

 

It wasn't until I discovered this thread that I learned LBJs should be part of your maintenance schedule. Fluids, belts, etc., sure. Everybody knows that. But I never would have known that LBJs have a life span as well.

 

How do we know the aftermarket parts weren’t designed to specification? If they were, wouldn’t you think Toyota is to blame?

 

Every ball joint on every vehicles has a lifespan. I kept passing by a Mazda or similar a couple blocks over on my way to drop off the kids every morning that popped a front passenger ball joint and was laing on its wheel. I was half tempted to ask them if they wanted to sell the car.

If it needs grease, and it pivots, it's mechanical and has both a maintenance interval and a service life. No joint lasts forever.

 

Do you think Toyota's specification says it's acceptable to use nylon bushings over metal bushings?

I saw in one dissection video, it was for a Sankei 555 joint, where they were using a hollow plastic cup to hold the spindle ball from riding on the LBJ cap, in the same place Toyota uses a metal seat with a stout spring. You think Toyota's spec says those two are equivocal in some way?

It's called corner cutting, and it's why aftermarket is so much cheaper than OEM. How else do you think some of these companies are selling their LBJ for $25-35 while Toyota is asking 5x that? There's got to be at least $8-9 in the housing alone and another $3-4 in the spindle. Even at $25 with labor, assembly, etc. it doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for profit, even when you factor in the sweatshop labor rates. So they swap out a 50-75¢ brass bushing for 1¢ nylon bushing. And skip the $1 spring and steel seat for a plastic cup that cost 1¢. They've just engineered in a dollar of profit, at the expense of reducing the longevity 2x-4x.

It's all bullshit. But this is capitalism at its finest. Manufacturer skimps, hopes they don't get sued. If they get sued, "Oops!" and pay a small fine, correct the "problem" (or stop making the part under that name), then back to business as usual. Or blame the warehouse you bought the parts from, shedding all your liability onto those guys.

 

One thing I overlooked is that these aftermarket manufacturers probably don’t have access to Toyota specifications like the OE manufacturer and probably just reverse engineer what they can acquire. If that’s the case, one would hope a name brand aftermarket manufacturer like Moog would do a lot of testing with the alternate design, but I guess they don’t if they so easily fail.