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FFV not available in CA ? What's up with that ?

Discussion in '3rd Gen Tundras (2014+)' started by 4sallypat, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. Aug 9, 2018 at 6:54 PM
    #1
    4sallypat

    4sallypat [OP] New Member

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    Newcomer, previously owned a first gen Tundra in 2000 and found I miss her...

    Just started shopping for a new 2018 Tundra and looking to get a FFV 5.7L SR5 but can't find any FFV in CA.

    I thought the FFV was 50 state legal.

    What is going on ?

    Do I have to drive to Arizona or Nevada to pick one up ??
     
    4x4_Angel likes this.
  2. Aug 9, 2018 at 7:03 PM
    #2
    saybng

    saybng New Member

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    I dont much about FFV vehicles, but why do u want one?
     
    GNTundra and 15whtrd like this.
  3. Aug 9, 2018 at 7:03 PM
    #3
    joonbug

    joonbug bacon bastrd

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    Why would you want flex fuel? I would’ve gotten a non flex if I could’ve.
     
  4. Aug 9, 2018 at 7:06 PM
    #4
    saybng

    saybng New Member

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    Btw welcome from Ventura California
     
  5. Aug 9, 2018 at 7:06 PM
    #5
    T-Rex266

    T-Rex266 T-Rex Staff Member

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    I’m glad I don’t have one. Why the need for one?
     
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  6. Aug 9, 2018 at 7:07 PM
    #6
    Bprose

    Bprose New Member

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    Ha, I went to CA from AZ to specifically get a non flex fuel.
     
  7. Aug 9, 2018 at 7:25 PM
    #7
    Sas

    Sas Humor is everywhere

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    Lost track after #1.
    Welcome from OK
     
    4sallypat [OP] likes this.
  8. Aug 9, 2018 at 7:29 PM
    #8
    Blueknights75

    Blueknights75 WHITE is the FASTEST color!!!!!

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    Welcome from NC! I purchased mine knowing that I did not want a FFV. I waited until dealer had a non FFV Tundra that I wanted in stock. Seems like where I purchased my truck all they had were FFV Tundras. Took a while until they had one delivered that was not a FFV.
     
  9. Aug 9, 2018 at 7:36 PM
    #9
    Stumpjumper

    Stumpjumper New Member

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    Do they even sell E85 in Ca.? Even if available here I would not run that crap. Maybe the OP is planning to move to Iowa.
     
  10. Aug 9, 2018 at 7:58 PM
    #10
    trdprobped17

    trdprobped17 New Member

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    @4sallypat, According to California’s Drive Clean Website, FFV Tundras are allowed in the state. There is even a $2500 incentive offered by the state. I attached the link below. It may just be a shortage of FFV Tundras in your state. You know that you Californians prefer the “Fast n Furious” lifestyle. FFV E85 fuel has less power than regular gasoline, so many people would prefer the power (regular gas), over greenhouse (E85 gas).....that’s just American bro! :)

    https://www.driveclean.ca.gov/

    upload_2018-8-9_22-57-8.jpg
     
    4sallypat [OP] likes this.
  11. Aug 9, 2018 at 8:09 PM
    #11
    4sallypat

    4sallypat [OP] New Member

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    Yes, thanks @trdprobped17 the Driveclean site drove me to try and locate a FFV Tundra.

    Since fuel costs over $3.50 / gal here in So Cal, I thought I would offset the cost of running the truck by using E85 which sells for abour $2.60 / gal.

    I don't really need the torque or HP from the truck's engine so I would not mind - just for economy sakes.

    All the local Toyota dealers have said either "we don't have any" or "FFV are not allowed due to emissions"...

    What's up with dealers trying to dissuade me from finding a FFV ??

    Having owned a couple of diesel cars when diesel was much cheaper than gas - not nowadays.

    I love having a choice for alternative fuels running regular gas or E85 sounds like my cup of coffee...
     
    trdprobped17 likes this.
  12. Aug 9, 2018 at 8:10 PM
    #12
    4sallypat

    4sallypat [OP] New Member

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    Yes, lots of gas stations selling E85 in So Calif.
    I don't mind running it when gas prices are close to $4/gal....
     
  13. Aug 9, 2018 at 8:16 PM
    #13
    silverhack

    silverhack New Member

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    The reason FFV Tundra is not allowed in California is because CA requires separate emissions testing and certification for each engine type.
    So there’s the federal emissions testing & certification that Toyota has to do for both engines which makes the engine legal in 49 states. To sell the engine in CA, Toyota has to do the testing / certification specifically for CA. Rather than pay to test/certify both engines in CA they just pay for one.

    So that’s why other makes and models have FFV that are legal in CA because that’s the only engine they are selling in CA so they have to certify it anyway.

    You can buy a FFV Tundra out of state an bring it in to CA under certain restricted circumstances.
     
    JoshuaA, sdde4n and trdprobped17 like this.
  14. Aug 9, 2018 at 8:19 PM
    #14
    Marty McFly

    Marty McFly Famous movie actor

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    Welcome from SoCal sir :hattip:
     
  15. Aug 9, 2018 at 8:20 PM
    #15
    trdprobped17

    trdprobped17 New Member

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    There you go! The advantage of a FFV is that you can use both E85 and regular gasoline. I have only used E85 in my Tundra once. I saw it being sold for 40 cents less than regular unleaded gasoline, so I filled up my 36 gallon tank. To be honest, I could tell that it was E85 because it didn’t have the kick that I am accustomed to. But, the tank of gas gave me a few more miles per gallon overall. If I had to drive my Tundra to work, which is 72 miles each way, I would only use E85.
     
  16. Aug 9, 2018 at 8:22 PM
    #16
    4sallypat

    4sallypat [OP] New Member

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    SERIOUSLY ??

    This makes sense!

    With all the green thinking Californians, the FFV would be slam dunk ???

    So how difficult is it to import a FFV Tundra into CA ?
    I would be willing to fly into AZ or TX and pick one up and drive her into CA.
    Other than CA sales tax, is there a "gross polluter" stamp I need to pay for to get one from another state ?

    Or is my only local choice a FFV: Ford F150, Chevy 1500 or Ram 1500 ??
     
  17. Aug 9, 2018 at 8:23 PM
    #17
    trdprobped17

    trdprobped17 New Member

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    I see. But, with you hat said, CA is still offering a $2500 incentive for the FFV Tundras. That’s interesting in itself.
     
  18. Aug 9, 2018 at 8:30 PM
    #18
    silverhack

    silverhack New Member

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    Yeah, it’s crazy all the separate regulations this stupid state has. I’m not sure why Toyota certified the non-FFV in CA instead of certifying the FFV. Maybe they already had it certified before they made the FFV version? /shrug.

    As for bringing the FFV Tundra into CA you can do it:
    - if you are a resident of another state and are moving to CA
    - if you are a CA resident and are traveling out of state and your vehicle breaks down or gets stolen, you can buy a vehicle and bring it back in to CA (requires police report or proper paperwork to prove it)
    - if you are a CA resident you can bring in a used vehicle (over 500 miles on it) but I forgot if there are other requirements for this also.

    ...but my understanding is that the extra costs of maintenance on the FFV outweighs and savings in gas costs. From what I’ve heard you’re better off with the non-FFV engine. I have heard of people flying halfway across the country to get a non-FFV Tundra.
     
    15whtrd, 4sallypat [OP] and Tony v like this.
  19. Aug 9, 2018 at 8:30 PM
    #19
    Nick T

    Nick T New Member

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    @4sallypat,
    10mpg on e85 , 225 miles = 22.5 gallons = $58.50 at 2.60/gal
    15mpg on e10, 225 miles = 15 gallons = $54.00 at 3.60/gal
    No offset in cost.
    E85 is good if you want to maximize your HP, as it is higher octane you can run more boost if you are supercharged etc.
     
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  20. Aug 9, 2018 at 8:37 PM
    #20
    trdprobped17

    trdprobped17 New Member

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    E85 do run better with SC and turbos.
     
  21. Aug 10, 2018 at 6:12 AM
    #21
    4sallypat

    4sallypat [OP] New Member

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    Thanks @silverhack
    Well that is useful info on out of state vehicle transfers...
     
  22. Aug 10, 2018 at 6:12 AM
    #22
    4sallypat

    4sallypat [OP] New Member

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    Never thought E85 is that much lower in MPG. Figured about 1 MPG lower...

    Hmmm- going to rethink this FFV vs. non FFV issue.

    Thanks everyone!
     
  23. Aug 10, 2018 at 6:51 AM
    #23
    sdde4n

    sdde4n New Member

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    My guess would be market forces -- no demand. Long beds and six-seaters are similarly hard to find: they exist, but you likely have to order one or be willing to search several states to get the one you want.
     
  24. Aug 10, 2018 at 6:58 AM
    #24
    4sallypat

    4sallypat [OP] New Member

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    Agreed. When I started looking for a Tundra, the long beds and bench seats were non existent in any trim above the SR.

    Just like the FFV engines - people in CA aren't as green as they think they are....
     
  25. Aug 10, 2018 at 6:59 AM
    #25
    Tierhog

    Tierhog New Member

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    I do prefer a 10k oil change as opposed to the FFV 5k...Availability of E85* is severely limited in the central valley anyhow, making the whole pursuit about the rebate, which may or may not be ongoing and without a gazillion limitations or exceptions.

    I'm a California transplant from NY and I'm not remotely green. I miss plastic bags, love V8s, don't recycle, hate metered water, and think the paper straw thing is BS.

    Oh.. We eat real butter and love steak too.

    I admit my days are numbered here though. Take my California pension and spend it somewhere else. Lol
     
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  26. Aug 10, 2018 at 7:00 AM
    #26
    sdde4n

    sdde4n New Member

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    @4sallypat ...or they saw the Prius on the lot and thought they could just go to U-haul or Home Depot when they needed a truck.
     
  27. Aug 10, 2018 at 7:39 AM
    #27
    BIGUGLY

    BIGUGLY I the SheepDog. I have the capacity for Violence.

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    If you want to save a little on fuel try to use the E30 to E50 . I have ran that for years and I get the same mileage as regular or E10 to E15.

    This has all been in GM work vehicles and we have had no problems with the fuel system or motors . Plenty of other issues not motor or fuel related.

    Oil change interval is 7500miles. And these motors see a lot of idle and heavy acceleration. No issues dating back 4 years so far
     
    4sallypat [OP] likes this.
  28. Aug 10, 2018 at 7:42 AM
    #28
    yosh2000

    yosh2000 New Member

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    Nope, there is about a 25% less energy in e85 than e10, therefore you get at least 25% less MPG running e85 vs e10. i did a paper in it some 10 years ago. NOT worth it for the e85. stick with standard e10!!
     
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  29. Aug 10, 2018 at 7:46 AM
    #29
    BIGUGLY

    BIGUGLY I the SheepDog. I have the capacity for Violence.

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    Correct .some reduced mileage. Up here if it's not atleast $1.50 a gallon cheaper you lose. Anything cheaper and you win
     
  30. Aug 10, 2018 at 7:54 AM
    #30
    15whtrd

    15whtrd I tried being reasonable, but I didn't like it.

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    FFFV
    Fucflexfuelvehicles lol
     
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