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Excessive oil consumption

Discussion in '3rd Gen Tundras (2014+)' started by FULL-THROTTLE, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. Jan 13, 2020 at 7:36 PM
    #1
    FULL-THROTTLE

    FULL-THROTTLE [OP] New Member

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    I just picked up a 2017 Tundra SR5 TRD 5.7 with 47500 miles, when I picked it up from a local dealer (not a Toyota dealership) it had a fresh oil change with 25 mile on the oil, in 2 months I put 1400 miles on it, I have checked the oil after I put approx 900 miles on it and all "was" fine, I checked the oil yesterday and had to add 3 quarts, I thought I was delusional, but it took 3 quarts of mobil 1 synthetic 0-20, I called the dealership and they thought I was crazy, I went in today with the purchase paperwork, jiffy lube oil change paperwork from the dealership to prove mileage on the oil, the KIND service rep was being a d-bag. He said I must have done something wrong and he did not believe I added 3 its of oil. I had the receipt from Napa showing the purchase of the oil, he still was rude as hell and discarded my story, I asked him if he was a mechanic and he said yes with 20+ years experience, I opened my wallet and pulled out my airframe and power plant license ( I am a licensed aircraft mechanic with over 30 years experience working on planes and helicopters) he changed his tune right away. The service manager came over and asked a few questions and agreed they need to do a oil consumption test for the next 1200 miles, the mark the oil drain plug and oil filter to be sure I don't mess with anything. So they recognize the complaint and are actually helping me out, the truck is under warranty so I will see where the oil is in 1200 miles and let you know what happens. My first tundra and Im kinda bummed I thought these were supposed to be great engines??
     
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  2. Jan 13, 2020 at 8:40 PM
    #2
    Joe333x

    Joe333x New Member

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    I'd assume the oil light comes on when you are 1 quart low.
     
  3. Jan 13, 2020 at 8:42 PM
    #3
    AZBoatHauler

    AZBoatHauler New Member

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    I think the oil light only looks at pressure. Anyone know what will trigger the light?
     
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  4. Jan 13, 2020 at 8:47 PM
    #4
    Joe333x

    Joe333x New Member

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    I'm just guessing since I had a Subaru that burned oil and the light always came on when I was 1 quart low. Id assume being 3 quarts low would cause lower oil pressure also though. I'd hope you'd get some type of warning if you're 3 quarts low.
     
  5. Jan 13, 2020 at 8:58 PM
    #5
    Tierhog

    Tierhog SIG-AHOLIC

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    They are exceptional engines. Like aircraft, errors occur. Seems you'd quickly locate a leak, which makes me think some portion of the 7.4 qts is passed the rings. You should recognize some of the signs. Chances are pretty high that once you fail the consumption test they'll be forced to fix the problems. I say problems, as your likely already aware of systemic factors.

    Crappy luck. Too bad we don't have a detailed service history. It's not like Toyota doesn't throw in a few freebies. Please keep us posted.
     
  6. Jan 13, 2020 at 9:03 PM
    #6
    empty_lord

    empty_lord New Member

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    Oil pressure sets it. You’d have to be dangerously low for it to come on. More than 4quarts low for it


    This would be my first hearing of a 5.7 drinking oil (I’m sure some have, I haven’t see any come through the dealer) chances are they’ll get it all sorted out.
     
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  7. Jan 13, 2020 at 9:38 PM
    #7
    panicman

    panicman Everyone remain calm.

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    I had a 2007 Camry that had an engine that had widespread oil consumption issues. They’d do the test as Full Throttle describes: drain and fill, dated seals on dipstick, oil fill, and drain plug. 1200 miles driving, then return to the dealer. “Excessive consumption” was absolutely defined by Toyota. I went through 3/4 to a full quart between oil changes. That did not qualify as “excessive.” 3 quarts is a lot though. They may do a rebuild.
     
  8. Jan 13, 2020 at 9:48 PM
    #8
    FULL-THROTTLE

    FULL-THROTTLE [OP] New Member

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    This is my first Toyota and I am very surprised I did not get a warning light, I thought I heard some louder than normal lifter noise. I am going to have to look into the low oil warning light, if there is one??
     
  9. Jan 13, 2020 at 9:54 PM
    #9
    FULL-THROTTLE

    FULL-THROTTLE [OP] New Member

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    The light is oil pressure per the Toyota web site, surprising there is no low oil light?? Im thankful my ears caught the minor extra noise. I will keep you all updated. I'm still kinda bummed it such a great truck.
     
  10. Jan 13, 2020 at 9:59 PM
    #10
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy New Member

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    Most (not all) automotive engines use only a pressure sensor for oil.
     
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  11. Jan 13, 2020 at 11:45 PM
    #11
    onelowflyer

    onelowflyer New Member

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    Yes!
    Does this occur frequently - oil loss in past years of the tundra?
     
  12. Jan 14, 2020 at 3:31 AM
    #12
    TundraMcGov.

    TundraMcGov. Your friend. Your foe. Not yo Ho.

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    NO. Point of reference: my 1997 T-100 with the 3.4L V6 has never used oil. Never. It's at 260,000 miles.

    To the OP. I've found the 5.7L (I too have a 2017) is a bit finicky if you do not check the engine oil dip stick on LEVEL ground. I realize that 3 quarts is a dramatic difference for an engine that holds 7.9. And new full synthetic oil has proven to be damn near impossible for me to read on the dipstick. At least until a good 2,000 miles. I do all of my own oil service work.

    I'll patiently await your report back.
     
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  13. Jan 14, 2020 at 4:39 AM
    #13
    WestexSBK

    WestexSBK New Member

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    I’d like to hear what the test reports back.

    The 5.7L is a phenomenal engine. Toyota’s reputation is not built on sand. But like anything man made issues can occur.

    I hope it’s something small. These dealers try to flip used vehicles so quickly they could have easily missed an issue. Goodluck OP.

    Joe S
     
  14. Jan 14, 2020 at 5:48 AM
    #14
    Jrharvey02

    Jrharvey02 Meh.

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    I’m experiencing similar issues:
    https://www.tundras.com/threads/i-checked-my-oil-level-today-and-it-didn%E2%80%99t-even-register-on-my-dipstick.54042/page-2

    To update: it’s been about 3 months since my posting and oil change (8.5qts. to get to the top dot on dipstick) though I’ve only put about 1,300 miles on the truck and my oil level is currently in the middle of the dots, meaning I’ve lost roughly .75qts (it takes 1.5qts from bottom dot to top dot). Not a leak anywhere to be found. I’m stumped.
     
  15. Jan 14, 2020 at 7:12 AM
    #15
    WrigglingWilly

    WrigglingWilly New Member

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    That is the issue with used cars. That oil change right before you bought it may have been it's first, paperwork be damned. I just caught a home inspector put 2003 as date of manufacture on a water heater that was made in 2008, as a favor to their client. People do dumb stuff.
     
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  16. Jan 14, 2020 at 7:50 AM
    #16
    panicman

    panicman Everyone remain calm.

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    On my Camry, the piston rings had been designed with passages in them that, to my understanding, were designed to promote oil flow back and forth in the cylinder. These passages would become blocked, so the oil was forced into the firing chamber, albeit very slowly. I never saw smoke out of my exhaust, but it would indeed burn the oil. It never leaked, and as long as the oil gets checked (about every other week), I’ll bet that engine is still ticking away, and I sold it at 170k. The engine never lost power, sounded funny, idled rough- it was a bulletproof engine with a slight oil abuse issue.
     
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  17. Jan 14, 2020 at 8:11 AM
    #17
    WNY PAT

    WNY PAT New Member

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    As someone else said, that’s the problem with a used motor, you have no idea what the history really was. You wouldn’t believe some of the crap that shows up at the auction and is thrown out on dealer lots. In fact, all those “good will” resolutions to avoid a title branded a lemon / buyback end up on a lot someplace. Hope you didn’t get the short end of the stick in the deal.
     
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  18. Jan 14, 2020 at 9:25 AM
    #18
    Ajkkane

    Ajkkane Old fart.

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    I would think maybe they used cheap and maybe non synthetic oil. Change it to a name brand synthetic oil and see what happens.
     
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  19. Jan 14, 2020 at 10:57 AM
    #19
    Jrharvey02

    Jrharvey02 Meh.

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    0-20 only comes in full synthetic...
     
  20. Jan 14, 2020 at 9:51 PM
    #20
    RDRunner

    RDRunner New Member

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    I have a 2016 Tundra with the 5.7 engine. I purchased the truck new and take very good care of it. It has less than 50,000 miles on it and I have had some oil consumption problems (1 or 2 quarts between changes). I have also had some blue smoke on startups (There are some threads on the net with the same problem and I know what blue oil smoke looks like.). It seems somewhat sporadic. The engine is NOT leaking any oil or I would see it on my garage floor (not a drop). By the way, I use only the highest quality oil and change it at 5,000 miles and drive the truck very gently without towing or working the truck.

    A lot of newer cars from different manufacturers are starting to have these problems. Some of it may be the super thin oil used in cars (0-20) and some of it is the piston design which is prone to cook the oil around the rings, causing them to stick and use oil. I have also read that the PCV type value sometimes goes bad in these engines and that causes the engine to use oil.

    The 5.7 is known to have the ring problem. The following link to an article states that you can avoid it by using high quality oil and gas, but I do not think that has anything to do with it because I use both. Here is a link and an excerpt from the online article: https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=108 The 3UR-FE has a problem with coking of the piston oil rings which caused high oil consumption. After that, the oil consumption increases over time. To avoid this problem, use only the recommended high-quality oil and watch the oil level.

    My two sisters both bought new Toyota identical cars back in the mid 80s (even same color). One sister's car never used a drop of oil and the other sister's car used a lot of oil between changes (like 3 quarts) when it was new and thereafter. Both cars lasted over 200,000 miles, and cars last even longer nowadays with fuel injection, computers, etc. I changed the oil in both cars and neither sister did anything different and drove about the same, etc. I do think it was uncommon and just bad luck for the sister's car that used a lot of oil, but it was like that when it was brand new.

    I am not going to worry about my truck using some oil and I hope it is temporary like the front brake rotor problem--One rotor seems warped but then it stops acting warped from time to time for long periods so I think it is brake pad buildup that comes and goes.

    Toyotas are great cars, but they sometimes have problems too. I have had some Toyotas that were great and I ran them over 200k miles and they were still going strong. However, my first new Toyota, a 1984 Celica GTS, had a head gasket start leaking water at around 37,000 miles (just out of warranty) and Toyota told me it was a common problem. My new 2004 Camry had a bad water pump bearing from day one (bad batch) and my 2011 Hylander had some type of steering linkage u-joint popping with less than 40,000 miles. Overall though they have been great cars.
     
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  21. Jan 14, 2020 at 9:58 PM
    #21
    empty_lord

    empty_lord New Member

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    Piston ring issues plauge all modern cars with people using cheap oil or going to long between changes. Its part of the issue with this thin oil they use now adays.
    Hondas having issues, Chevy v8s burn. ive seen some Hemis burning (their lifters tend to fail sooner than the rings caking though). toyota has issues with the 4 cylinders (v6 seem to be fine unless neglected, or defect found early on. same for the v8s.)

    ive had luck throwing 1 quart of ATF in with oil and riding mildly agressive for a week on a 2000 corolla.. to this day with a mobil 1 diet my buddy says that car doesnt burn a drop anymore. it was drinking a quart every 800 miles or so
     
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  22. Jan 14, 2020 at 10:01 PM
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    RDRunner

    RDRunner New Member

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    Yep, I read these stories a lot about newer cars, including Hondas, Toyotas, etc. You exactly described the problem and my understanding is that the ring is too close to the top of the piston (gets hotter than it should) and it was designed this way for better emissions but it cooks or burns the oil causing build up. There are some youtube videos on this as well and it shows the pistons.
     
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  23. Jan 14, 2020 at 10:04 PM
    #23
    RDRunner

    RDRunner New Member

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    I have read online where some guys have done some things to "unstick" rings. You can google it and find folks who have done it. I don't think cheap oil has anything to do with it nor do I think long oil changes has anything to do with it. Most oils are not cheap (they are plenty good). I used the best oils and still have the problem. I also changed my oil every 5,000 miles like clockwork. I have read where other folks have done the same and it happened to them as well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020 at 5:57 AM
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  24. Jan 14, 2020 at 10:08 PM
    #24
    empty_lord

    empty_lord New Member

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    ATF in the oil, not the gas. ATF is a detergent. it can clean things out. Technically 1 quart every 1000 miles is considered "normal". but it would drive me nuts.

    i cant speak of owning a burner. all mine don't lose any oil (except my 06 corolla.. but a leaking headgasket will do that). I havent had a 5.7 apart in 3 years. but if the pistons like the 2.4 (done tons of those warranty enhancements) the ring groove is the problem for sure. nothings changed since the 5.7 came out internally that i know of. the 5w-30 engines dont have any burn issues. which is the same story as the 2.4 in the camry. the older ones with 5w-30 never were known to burn.. i think it just falls on the engine not being updated and just throwing a thinner oil in it.
     
  25. Jan 15, 2020 at 5:54 AM
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    RDRunner

    RDRunner New Member

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    Yes, I misread your post the first time (gas vs oil) and took that sentence out with an edit to my post, but you replied before the edit. You seem to know what you are talking about so I may give it a try. I also think that you may be on to something with the thinner oil in the 5.7 causing the problem. Would running 5w-30 maybe help the problem from reoccurring once the ring grooves are cleaned out? I never liked this extra thin 0-20 oil. I just bought my daughter a used 2012 Camry and it uses that 0-20 weight of oil too and I had to add a little oil to it recently between changes (and it only has about 85k miles). Thanks for your posts.

    By the way, I used to own a 2004 Camry that I bought new and put 100k miles on it before I traded it and it never used a drop of oil and it used the 5-30. You are right.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020 at 6:01 AM
  26. Jan 15, 2020 at 6:23 AM
    #26
    JohnLakeman

    JohnLakeman Burning Internet Daylight

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    If coking of the rings is the cause, then it's probably less about oil weight than the smoke/flash temperatures of any given motor oil. Synthetic oils tend to have higher flash temps, and any specific brand being considered can be checked out using the MSDS sheets. Avoiding any that are "synthetic blends" would probably be good advice, since the label "synthetic blend" implies a lower percentage of true "synthetic" components. Otherwise, synthetic blends would be labeled "full synthetic". Mobil1 is labeled a "full synthetic", and has 45-50 percent synthetic oil for comparison.
     
  27. Jan 15, 2020 at 6:35 AM
    #27
    TRD423

    TRD423 New Member

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    I have the same year truck with 1000 less miles than you. I tend to go about 7000 between changes. Just checked the oil with about 5000 miles on it, and was damn near a full quart low. I have used Mobil 1 advanced fuel economy since new. This next oil change, im giving the Shell Rotella gas truck oil a shot.
     
  28. Jan 15, 2020 at 6:44 AM
    #28
    RDRunner

    RDRunner New Member

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    I don't know if the problem is coking the rings or not (could be excess carbon build up on the rings and piston causing them to stick), but the bottom line is that it is a piston/ring design problem and a lot of other newer car brands have had the exact same problem. My understanding is that auto manufacturers are trying to get better emissions and fuel efficiency and they are using this piston design to do so. I read that part of the design causes the ring to be too close to the top of the piston which causes it to be subject to either excess carbon or cooked oil on the ring from extra heat (too close to the combustion chamber). Of course, as you pointed out, some of it may also be the super thin 0-20 oil with this piston design (combined causes the problem).

    I have never used any blended synthetic in any car. I always use full synthetic and only the best brands. However, I had my truck oil changed for free at Toyota for the first 30,000 miles or so and I never really trusted that the Toyota dealer was using full synthetic (it may have used a blend to save money or it could have been a screw up). I did not personally change the oil in my truck the first 30,000 miles (the Toyota dealer did) so I cannot say for certain what type of oil was used, even though I reminded them each time to use full synthetic.

    By the way, my truck never used a drop of oil until around 40,000 miles and then this started happening, along with blue smoke startups. If you know anything about engines, that is unusual that a lower mileage engine would all of a sudden start using oil. Usually oil consumption it is a wear problem (cylinder walls, rings wearing out, valve stem seals finally going out, etc.) that causes oil consumption and it does it gradually--not all at once. But sticking rings would cause sudden oil loss and they can stick quickly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020 at 6:52 AM
  29. Jan 15, 2020 at 7:50 AM
    #29
    ssls6

    ssls6 Dr. Awesome

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    A bad PCV valve can also increase consumption
     
  30. Jan 15, 2020 at 8:12 AM
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    nixon

    nixon New Member

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    But, the place that did his oil change was Jiffy Lube . They aren’t exactly considered a great place to get an oil change . They could have put any old oil in there.
     
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