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Ethanol-Free vs. Premium?

Discussion in 'General Tundra Discussion' started by 53flattie, Aug 26, 2015.

  1. Aug 26, 2015 at 11:29 AM
    #1
    53flattie

    53flattie [OP] New Member

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    I have always ran premium (93 octane) in my Tundra. I have settled on a very steady average 14.5 MPG. So, today I filled up with ethanol-free, to see if it impacts my MPG at all. I noticed that the ethanol-free was $2.79/gallon and the premium was $2.69/gallon. That got me thinking... The price difference is pretty much negligible (~$2.50 per fill-up), so which is "better" for the engine in terms of fuel economy and longevity?

    Any thoughts or experience?
     
  2. Aug 26, 2015 at 11:55 AM
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    mdavis

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    I run Shell mid-grade. I get 13 MPG driving with a light foot. ~12 with a heavy. Gas station I fill up at has a flag saying now selling 100% gasoline. But nothing stating which grades that includes. I'm assuming all but these days who knows? As far as longevity goes, the less crap you put through the engine the better.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2015
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  3. Aug 26, 2015 at 12:03 PM
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    53flattie

    53flattie [OP] New Member

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    Oh - one more thing to clarify... The ethanol-free is 87 octane.
     
  4. Aug 26, 2015 at 12:24 PM
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    bobeast

    bobeast really old member

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    Premium costs roughly 7% more than regular. So at 14.5 MPG you can get almost a cash equivalent of 1 MPG increase just by switching back to regular. Note, that unless you are running a tune that takes advantage of the additional octane, there is absolutely zero benefit to premium over Regular gas.
     
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  5. Aug 26, 2015 at 12:33 PM
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    53flattie

    53flattie [OP] New Member

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    I'm not sure I agree with this statement, but that's neither here nor there.
    I'm curious about 87 octane ethanol-free vs. 93 octane with ethanol.
     
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  6. Aug 26, 2015 at 12:51 PM
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    matluth

    matluth Fish On!

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    Agreed. Pretty much zero benefit running on premium if engine is tuned to run on regular mid-grade dino. What's important is to pay a little more for quality gas that has detergents and such. Such as Shell or Chevron.
    http://gomastertech.com/2015/07/13/regular-vs-premium-gas/
    ^
    ^
    "Today’s vehicles that are computer controlled are optimized to run best on the recommended grade of gasoline. Please note that using a higher grade of fuel than what is recommended will not benefit you at all. You will not get additional performance or increased fuel economy so don’t waste your money."
     
  7. Aug 26, 2015 at 2:29 PM
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    Sean266

    Sean266 #ThinBlueLine Staff Member

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    I use Shell mid-grade, and nothing else.
     
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  8. Aug 26, 2015 at 7:12 PM
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    Mike

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    Fuel is fuel people. Take it from someone who works in the oil industry. Terminal have there own special bend but what it boils down to its same fuel that shell has as bp and might come from the same terminal. ..lol

    As for 93 ron octane. Only thing you really do is turn the heat up in the piston thats it. Unless your engine has a s/c on it your wasting you money man. Unless the ecm requirements are 93 ron only.
     
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  9. Aug 26, 2015 at 8:58 PM
    #9
    Wynnded

    Wynnded Wait, what?

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    I consistently get better mileage with E0.
     
  10. Aug 27, 2015 at 4:54 AM
    #10
    chphilo

    chphilo New Member

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    From everything I read and from my own personal experience, higher octane doesn't make any significant difference in mpg. Ethanol-free gas, on the other hand, seems to improve the mpg as reported by various people. Unfortunately, there is no ethanol-free gas station around where I live.
     
  11. Aug 27, 2015 at 6:09 AM
    #11
    Wynnded

    Wynnded Wait, what?

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    I thought that the nearest one to me was 50 miles away and impracticality distant. Turns out in was mistaken, check http://pure-gas.org/ to be sure. They even have a mobile app, I use it when I travel on the motorcycle.
     
  12. Aug 27, 2015 at 6:12 AM
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    matluth

    matluth Fish On!

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    Found this comment from a refinery fuel inventory manager:

    "It is true that gasoline is gasoline. Companies load from common holding tanks at whatever rack they have access and fuel on hand. During the loading process, retailers add the detergent package they offer, so that when the gasoline is in the tanker, headed for your local station, it's unique to that retailer. If a delivery is made by mistake to another retailer ( it does happen, trust me, what a headache to fix...), it has to be pumped out and replaced, because it has contaminated the additive package and could be false advertising. Retailers take their additive packages VERY seriously.

    Discount fuels have a minimal generic additive package that meets minimum government standards. Over time, it's likely that your vehicle will experience buildup, robbing it of performance and efficiency. Choosing a Top Tier fuel, such as Chevron or Shell, assures the user that the fuel has met strict standards of quality.

    Chevron's TECHRON additive is highly regarded in the industry as one of the finest available. Shell's additive package is not named for marketing purposes, but the V Power premium has 5 times the federal standards and lesser grades have 2.5 times the minimum.

    As an alternative, both Shell and Chevron market fuel additives that can be poured directly into your vehicle's tank. If you're going to purchase discount fuels, you should add a high quality additive every 2500 or so miles (1 out of 5-6 tankfuls) to avoid long term buildup."

    Source(s): I manage fuels inventories for one of the world's largest energy
    companies.


    Our lab in Anchorage had a contract with the folks at the fuel terminal to calibrate all the pipeline pressure relief valves for the Port of Anchorage. All the various fuels (gasoline, diesel, jet fuels, etc) were refined in Fairbanks and then pumped down to the Port Terminal. Some tanker trucks would load up and drive off with fuel right out of the "tap" and head to the cheap gas stations. Other tanker loads had certain additives mixed in depending on "brand" on site at the fuel terminal before the fuel was delivered to the "brand" gas stations.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2015
  13. Aug 27, 2015 at 6:19 AM
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    matluth

    matluth Fish On!

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    That app isn't totally reliable. The app showed two Ethanol free stations near me, both within a few miles. Went to both places listed and neither had ethanol free gas anymore. There are a few gas stations in the Denver area where weekend street racers get their fuels. You almost have to go by word of mouth.
     
  14. Aug 27, 2015 at 7:22 AM
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    Wynnded

    Wynnded Wait, what?

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    Agreed, it's not 100% as it gathers information from the general public (aka: word of mouth). It is useful when in an unfamiliar locale and increases the likelihood of finding E0 versus dropping into any random station and walking around asking other patrons or the clerk.
     
  15. Aug 27, 2015 at 7:43 AM
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    TNTundra08

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    So I might have gotten lost reading all the additive and brand stuff. So, are we saying it's better for fuel economy/performance to run 87 octane at 100% gasoline? Also, would it be better to run say shell gasoline at 10% ethanol vs. some no name brand that's 100% gasoline?

    Edit: basically what's better. The additive with some ethanol or no additives but all gas. From what I read I feel like the answer is ethanol and additives?
     
  16. Aug 27, 2015 at 7:49 AM
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    matluth

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    I'd go with 100% gas when you can get it. You can add your own additives yourself like ChevronTechron for example. I get Techron at Advance Auto when it's on sale for BOGO.
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Aug 27, 2015 at 8:08 AM
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    Mike

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    Fuel system cleaner? Ha ha over priced paint thinner.
     
  18. Aug 27, 2015 at 8:28 AM
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    matluth

    matluth Fish On!

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    Exact same additive/detergent Chevron uses in their gas. I could mix up my own if I new the proper mix ratios of Distillate,Stoddard Solvent, Naptha Solvent,and Benzene. Rather buy it mixed already. Not exactly paint thinner chemically/scientifically speaking. Techron is a proven product that helps prevent carbon deposit build up. There are some cheesy products out there that are nothing more than mineral oil and a little Stoddard's Solvent tossed in. Important to read labels for chemical content.

    "Techron is a patented fuel additive developed by the Chevron Corporation, usually consisting of gasoline mixed with 400 ppm of polyetheramine.[1] With the introduction of Techron, Chevron gasolines became designated as meeting Top Tier standards for fuel cleanliness. Chevron gasolines with Techron were some of the first gasolines to be named as a “Top Tier Detergent Gasoline”.[2] “Top Tier Detergent Gasoline(s)” are agreed to lead to better performance in engines by BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, and Audi. "
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2015
  19. Aug 27, 2015 at 8:39 AM
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    chphilo

    chphilo New Member

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    I use GetGo, unless I am traveling (then I try to use Shell). So far, the GetGo gas has been flawless. Primary reason I use it? Discount. I paid $1.77 for 30 gal last time.
    Gas.jpg
     
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  20. Aug 27, 2015 at 8:42 AM
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    matluth

    matluth Fish On!

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    $1.77 is pretty good.
     
  21. Aug 27, 2015 at 9:39 AM
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    Mike

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    funny part thats all EPA talk, they cant say it thanks to the regs we have in place . When you get rebuild injectors thats all they use in paint thinner. I mix one pint of paint thinner to full tank and it does the same thing( its a old trick works prefect). Gasoline is still a dirty fuel no matter how you look at it or what you add to it.(put lipstick on a pig its still a pig)

    edit and the things chevron uses is the same thing that has been used for years in the little white can sea foam.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2015
  22. Aug 27, 2015 at 1:10 PM
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    matluth

    matluth Fish On!

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    Acetone (as found in most paint thinners) works well with the recommended ratio. Paint thinners have been used for years. Very old school. An improper paint thinner ratio has been known to affect other fuel system parts such as seals. No doubt would take take a lot of thinner to do that. Many over the counter additives are quite vague in their chemical make up since most are just mineral oil based. Actually Seafoam can be homemade quite easily. Main ingredient is Naptha which can be mixed with various other chemicals. Best to use approved chemicals known to not be harmful to engines. Especially with everyone so worried about warranties nowadays. Not going to mix anything in my gas that I don't know what is in it. Modern engines can be very expensive to repair. Too much solvent can be a bad thing.
     
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  23. Aug 28, 2015 at 5:51 AM
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    Mike

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    Gasoline is nothing but a solvent.

    In tankers when we get done with motor oil all we do is get a load of gasoline it will eat the motor oil out of the tank. Same is true or diesel fuel we use gasonline to clean diesel out of pipes and tanks.
     
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  24. Aug 28, 2015 at 6:22 AM
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    matluth

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    Not all solvents have the same chemical properties. Many solvents are more aggressive than others. Technically/chemically speaking even water can act as a general solvent/thinner to break down latex and acrylic. Some solvents are highly caustic like methyl ethyl ketone. Gasoline falls into the the midrange as a solvent. Kerosene is more aggressive than gas whereas acetone isn't as quite as aggressive as gasoline. Paint thinners come in many different strengths. But most are safe to use like Mike has stated. Too much solvent, depending on caustic chemical properties, can be a bad thing. Just make sure the correct mix to a tank is used for a particular thinner chemical makeup.
    Edit: I forgot to mention Stoddards solvent would actually be good additive/detergent agent. Much easier to work with. (less fumes)
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2015
  25. Aug 28, 2015 at 6:53 AM
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    matluth

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    I would stick with what you have been doing. Although pure dino 87 would be best to go with if you can get it regularly. I would if I could. You could move to Anchorage. All the gas there is ethanol free. All grades. heh heh
     
  26. Aug 29, 2015 at 6:46 PM
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    53flattie

    53flattie [OP] New Member

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    Thank you Matluth. That's what I was looking for.
     
  27. Aug 29, 2015 at 10:29 PM
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    matluth

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    Tim, You can call me Matt!!
     
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  28. Aug 30, 2015 at 12:07 PM
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    Mike

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  29. Sep 28, 2015 at 9:00 PM
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    gene3x

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    So when Toyota does all its testing at 91 octane is that what the Tundra ECU is optimized for? I have been using 93 and getting abouit 15.5 mpg in my new Tundra in mixed driving. About to switch and see if it makes a difference.
    From what I am reading here I am wasting my money at 93 octane right?
     
  30. Sep 28, 2015 at 10:08 PM
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    bobeast

    bobeast really old member

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    Yep your ecu is tuned for regular. The most obvious advantage to higher octane is that you can advance the timing without detonation. Way back when changing the timing was as easy as turning the distributer, we could run higher grades of fuel and advance the timing to take advantage of it. Now with timing controlled by computer, you'd have to "tune" a different timing curve into the computer for higher octane to be of any benefit.

    "Premium" just sounds better than "Regular", doesn't it? A grammatical distinction that has sucked many a dollar from many a wallet.
     
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