Engine Oil Analysis

Has this been brought up before? I had never heard of it, but one of my board members uses a service to analyze his oil. He takes a sample, mails it in, and they send a report listing levels of certain metals and other contaminants that will tell you whether you've got excessive wear from different engine components, based on what metals or compounds they find. You can track this over time with their charts.

I guess they cater to business fleet vehicles, but also serve individual customers.










And separate but related, he changes his oil once a year, or every 15,000 miles, with Convoy oil. He replaces the oil filter every 5,000 miles. Never heard of this, but he swears by it.



Any thoughts on all this? Not that it necessarily matters, but he's got an early 2nd gen Tundra.

 

Every 5000 miles is necessary if you take short trips regularly that don’t warm up the vehicle significantly to get rid of water condensation. Amplify that by cold winter temps as well.

Really sort of a no brainer for me.

Oil dirty? Change it.

 

That is why I special ordered my Tundroid to include an engine oil filter. I paid extra for the one that filters the oil while I'm driving.

Piece of mind!

 

Are we talking about the same thing? Oil analysis that can indicated wearing rings, or seals, or coolant in the oil etc? And whether it makes sense to use a specialty oil, and only change oil once every 15,000 miles, but change the filter every 5,000?

 

I have sent samples to a company called Blackstone, for different motorcycles, no cars though. I guess it's interesting info. They also check M/C trans oil for ones with separate gearboxes.
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

 

Yeah, I don’t care how special the oil is reported. Changing it every 15k under extreme driving conditions isn’t wise IMO. Sludge builds up everywhere.

 

Yea fuck all that noise.

 

I’ve never been interested in getting an oil analysis. I figure if for some reason my oil doesn’t pass the test, it’s too late to do anything about it anyhow. I usually change my oil anywhere from 3500~5000 miles.

 

I'm curious how fleets use this info. Or actually how common it is for big rigs or passenger-size business fleets to use oil analysis. A solution looking for a problem? Or is the data actionable? I don't know. The idea is intriguing, but that doesn't mean it's worthwhile.

Guy is the first person I've ever talked to who does 15,000 mile oil changes, but replaces the filter every 5,000. There is no stop & go where he lives. It's 400 yards from his house to the interstate, and anywhere he goes, he gets on the interstate. Less than 20 people live in his 'town'. He's a retired rancher, fixes everything himself, definitely knows how things work. Sometimes these rural old-timers really have it figured out, other times they have some strange, outdated ideas. Sometimes hard to tell the difference.

 

VERY familiar with this, Caterpillar offers the same service. You can buy the test tubes and paperwork at the service counter. You can send in ANY oil sample from ANYTHING. Caterpillar does not actually do the testing, the samples are sent to a third party lab and you get a print out and email with digital prints like you posted. I have bought the kit from Caterpillar and tested everything on my machines, ATVs, vehicles, ect.
I found out about this in 2012, i bought a Cat D6M from a broker with a brand new Caterpillar long block with receipts, brand new undercarriage, chains, pads, rollers, sprockets and all, but had a slipping transmission. The machine had 3 hours on it since the complete overhaul, and the broker apparently took it in needing some work and thought he was going to put an engine in it and sell it for a real profit but afterwards ended up with slipping trans and took a bath on it rather than sink more money into it.
I bought it knowing i might have to put a trans in it, already priced it, about $15k at the time. I went to Cat and asked them all about it and the service guy suggested i check the oil and see whats in it, this model has wet clutches in the trans, its a fingertip control unit with wet clutches and if they were slipping they could test the oil and see what it was, how much of the clutches were in the oil ect. I bought one of the test kits i think it was only about $20 at the time and warmed the engine up, and siphoned some oil out and sent it off and waited. It took a few weeks but they sent back all sorts of info.

1) trans was filled with hydraulic oil
2) clutch material was minimal
3) brass zinc ect ect all looked pretty normal
-----
This machine requires a specific 30w wet clutch oil with special friction modifiers, and whoever put the engine in, also likely drained the trans and unknowingly put hydraulic oil in it rather than the wet clutch oil. Likely a "do-all" diesel mechanic who wasnt well versed on the Caterpillar stuff. I contacted the cat guys and they recommended:
drain trans
flush trans (fill with diesel)
drain
fill with diesel again
crank machine
move forward and backward sparingly at low idle
drain
remove and replace trans oil filter
fill with TD30w Cat trans fluid
enjoy
I did those things, and the machine that should have sold for $85,000 i bought for $46,000 expecting to need a trans plus a couple grand in labor ended up costing me some diesel and oil and a filter. I have been running that machine ever since and have trusted the oil analysis stuff many times over. I checked every single oil on the whole machine afterwards and sent the drained oil off to be tested. Its well worth it to find out stuff and see what the wear is like inside anything that uses oil. It would be nice to have start to finish on equipment or vehicles to see what changes between oil changes over the life of the engine.

 

I've had mine checked by Blackstone a few times.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/oil...-oil-in-gen1-tundra.80580/page-3#post-2134157

 

My ram 2500 and 3500 is recommended for 15,000 mile oil change. Thats what i do on them, and i have never even thought a second about it.
All of these new synthetic oils, i think its much more common to go higher mileage, but yeah, if i planned to keep something forever i would definitely worry about sludge and i would change the oil more often. My pull trucks i keep to about 60,000-75,000 miles and trade them in so if the manual says 15,000 mile oil changes, rock and roll its their problem i gotta warranty and i dont plan on sitting in the seat long enough for anyting to wear out.
HOWEVER, on all of my Toyotas that i plan to keep, the oil is changed every 5,000 miles no questions asked.

 

Oil analysis is a very valuable tool, as it can let you know of issues before they show up. I used be responsible for the engines on several oil tankers. I was the one that initiated the oil testing program, after we failed a USCG inspection on a emergency generator set. We did the maintenance and corrective actions recommended by the analysis and we passed the inspection 30 days later and I secured a fulltime spot on the ship. Even if you change your oil every 5K the analysis can let you know when a head gasket is leaking or bearings are wearing quickly, or your driving like a Grandma and loading up the engine with carbon, etc.. But it is NOT cost effective for every oil change as it adds about 40-50 bucks to the cost. I used to have a ZR-1 Vette and did the oil analysis about once a year as that engine is about 30K to replace.
I did not realize this post was in the first gen forum, the 3rd gens would benefit from oil analysis and it should probably be part of the solution for the twin turbo engine issues.

 

Great, thanks for that info.

I don't know that I agree with him, but I guess that's his philosophy. Change the oil once a year, but the filter more regularly, get oil analysis once per year. Cost probably equals "normal" oil change schedules. And he's getting an analysis to tell him if things aren't working. Not sure if the analysis can pick up on sludge accumulation...

Interestingly, he swears by the Convoy oil, partly because it's a synthetic blend, not fully synthetic, and contains molybdenum. Something about the molybdenum holding oil/lubrication on metal parts better, aiding in cold starts. Says in weather 40 degrees F below zero, tractors with molybdenum additive would start, those without wouldn't. I don't know. I didn't know enough to hammer him with follow up questions.

In the end just an interesting idea so I wanted to get some opinions.

 

Strictly from a financial perspective, for a vehicle like our Tundras with a 7 quart oil capacity, an oil analysis doesn't make much sense. Mobil 1 oil is $25/gallon. A filter is $5. So $55 for an oil change. An oil analysis is $30. So we make an educated guess about the condition of our oil based on our VERY limited experience and go with an interval that makes us comfortable.
Is 5K miles too soon? Probably, but it sure isn't going to hurt anything. So at $55, it's the prudent financial choice.

But for fleet maintenance, oil analysis is very valuable. Consider the Cat D6M that @badass03taco mentioned above. That has an oil capacity of 7 GALLONS! (I Googled it.) Let's just stick with Mobil 1 for simpicity's sake -- that's $175. The filter is $25 (I Googled it.) So an oil change is $200 (and those are DIY prices, not Cat Dealer prices). Add to that the cost of transporting the equipment to the shop for that oil change, or paying a field service tech to go to the job site to do it. Now it's a $500 oil change. Plus every hour the equipment is being transported, or in the shop, or being serviced in the field, it's not making you money. It adds up fast. So those $30 oil analyses done on dozens of engines over years and years allow the fleet maintenance manager to make an informed decision on how frequently to change oil without guessing.
According to Google, a typical tractor trailer takes 10-12 GALLONS of oil -- I presume the filters are similar in price to the aforementioned Cat filters. And the typical oil change interval for them is 25,000 miles.

As for change interval for oil and filter: For decades (maybe still) Honda (cars) recommended changing the filter EVERY OTHER oil change regardless of interval. So I find the notion of changing the filter twice as often as the oil to be an interesting practice.

 

Good thoughts.

I could see doing my usual oil change routine (~5,000 miles), but sending an oil sample once a year for analysis. In the end, though, I've made it this far relying on other signs of engine trouble...I'll be fine without additional data.