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DSP necessary?

Discussion in 'Audio & Video' started by ForceV4, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. Feb 17, 2020 at 6:16 PM
    #1
    ForceV4

    ForceV4 [OP] Pull my finger

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    My last truck had a 5 channel amp, 6.5 coax in the door and 6x9 in the back with a JL 10" sub in a sealed wedge box. It sounded pretty decent and did ok when I felt compelled to crank it up.

    Now that I want to upgrade the Tundra stereo and every shop I walk into is pimping DSP. You have to have it, the Tundra needs it etc... ok. So, who has it and does it really make that big of a difference?

    I had planned on an Alpine PDX 9, some nice components up front and coax in the rear with some sort of sub underneath the rear seat. BTW, I have a double cab. Now I'm not sure what to do. I appreciate whatever feedback I can get. The local stereo shops are determined to run me right into bankruptcy.
     
  2. Feb 17, 2020 at 7:18 PM
    #2
    purplenova

    purplenova Not a new member

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    Pillar Tape, Bullet Liner, 20% Tint, Tyger Star Armor Kenwood amp & AudioControl LC7i Tech12volts JL Tweeters
    Get in touch with James at tech12volts.
    He is the authority for all things audio for the Tundra. He will answer any question you have. Think he has a group buy running now on a Sony amp and DSP.

    https://www.tundras.com/threads/gro...nel-amp-with-built-in-dsp.62054/#post-1627146
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  3. Feb 17, 2020 at 7:44 PM
    #3
    ForceV4

    ForceV4 [OP] Pull my finger

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    Thanks Tom. I know that James is very highly regarded here. The only reason I haven't bugged him is that I'm not ready to buy today-I'm still researching-and this is the first of what appear to be a dozen different questions about car audio from so many different angels. My taking up hours of his time without making a purchase isn't a nice thing to do. I will definitely contact him when I'm ready to pull the trigger and see what he can put together for me.

    The amount of money local shops are quoting me are shocking. I don't know what sort of customers they're accustomed to working with when they're quoting so much money for a mid grade build. Its almost comical.
     
    purplenova likes this.
  4. Feb 17, 2020 at 7:54 PM
    #4
    purplenova

    purplenova Not a new member

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    I understand, one local shop to me wanted almost 3000.00 to install my amp, loc and 4 speakers and sub. Mind you, I had the amp, loc and sub in hand.

    I did my own install, with help from this forum for less than $600.00 but still need to do doors. Once completed I should be all in for around 1200, depending on what speakers i actually get.

    If you intend to keep the Entune head unit, you will need something to clean up the signal coming from it, like a DSP or an LOC.
    That might be why the shops are pushing a DSP at you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  5. Feb 17, 2020 at 8:09 PM
    #5
    Toyotoholic

    Toyotoholic -4Life-

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    Pro suspension, sways
    If you're keeping the OEM HU then a DSP is absolutely necessary.

    If you're replacing the HU then just buy one that has a DSP built into it so you don't need anything else. (example: Alpine Halo 9).

    A DSP allows control over the shitty truck environment. Time alignment is critical in achieving phase sync, especially if you're adding rear speakers too. The Tundra has terrible acoustics and bounding issues which cause it to sound like dung. A DSP turns it back to gold.

    ...you must apply sound deadening at minimum to the doors (inside and out)!!!
     
    Pudge likes this.
  6. Feb 17, 2020 at 8:12 PM
    #6
    DCB500

    DCB500 New Member

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    If you are going to keep the stock head unit then you will need the LOC to get a usable signal from the stock head unit. If you are replacing the head unit then you won’t need it. I started with the the factory HU and DSP and just couldn’t get it to sound the way I wanted. Depending on what DSP you are going with there could only be a couple hundred difference in just getting a new HU....I went with the DMX905s and the difference is significant plus has its own DSP with abundant sound adjustment options.
     
  7. Feb 17, 2020 at 8:30 PM
    #7
    ForceV4

    ForceV4 [OP] Pull my finger

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    Well, balls. Yeah, I'd like to hang on to the stock head unit for foreseeable future. @purplenova, you very well could be right.

    I would prefer to install it all myself except for setting up the amp/DSP. I can see myself screwing that all up.

    $4500 seems to be the figure I'm running into. There's no fking way I'd spend that even if I had it.

    The amps that have been pushed are the JL Audio VX1000/5i and today someone was pushing an Audison 8.9 for some reason. I think he figured the center channel on the dash needed juice but the installer said not to hook that speaker up. The guy today suggested even keeping the stock speakers once the DSP was figured out because they'd sound pretty good. When.i questioned them being able to handle a fraction of the power that would be fed to them by those amps, he assured me they could take it. I dont buy it. I've not seen these particular stock speakers, but I've never seen a stock speaker in general that was worth a damn.

    For a sub, the JL Audio Stealthbox keeps coming up. They're pricey, too. Plus, I've never heard one and have no idea how it would compare to something James sells.

    This is all nuts and I'm overwhelmed.
     
  8. Feb 17, 2020 at 8:41 PM
    #8
    purplenova

    purplenova Not a new member

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    Well, let me say I'm a total novice at audio, but from my own research over the last 12 months, seems as if you are being pushed toward a luxury system based on the JL and Audison components they are pitching. You Do Not need to spend near that much to get a quality system even with the factory HU.
     
  9. Feb 17, 2020 at 8:53 PM
    #9
    Acaps

    Acaps New Member

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    I kept the stock HU and added the DSR1 DSP, JL audio rd900/5 amp, some nice Hertz components front and rear and used an old JL sub I had and am pretty impressed with the sound I’m achieving. I will be adding a sub enclosure with two 10’s when funds allow. Purchased everything from Tech12. Price was right and the system performs very well, actually excellent....and I’m super picky when it comes to audio. I had a JL/Focal system in my F150 and I feel the current set up is better. I am digging the DSR1 and all the customization it offers. I did unplug the three dash speakers.
     
  10. Feb 17, 2020 at 8:58 PM
    #10
    vegas4x4

    vegas4x4 Blaaack

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    Its not necessary but its going to make a world of a difference. If ur gonna spend a chunk of money on a complete system, you might as well have it perform the way its supposed to. Ive heard good things about the JL fix86. Thats what i almost bought before deciding to change my headunit.
     
  11. Feb 17, 2020 at 8:59 PM
    #11
    DCB500

    DCB500 New Member

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    I have about $2500 in mine and I replaced everything including the HU

    Kenwood DMX905S
    Rockford R1200 1-D sub amp
    Sound Digital 4 channel running doors/tweets
    2 Kicker Shallow mount 10’s
    Focal 6x9 integration components in front
    Focal 6 1/2’s in the rear
    Maestro wiring harness

    I know JL audio is good stuff as well but can’t imagine it’s $2000 better - but I installed myself so that’s a chunk of cost if you are having it done.
     
  12. Feb 17, 2020 at 9:03 PM
    #12
    TheBeast

    TheBeast The Beach

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    If you do the work your self you will save a lot of money and can upgrade at any time. Once you stripped down the interior, soundmat doors and run new speaker wires the bulk of the work is done . After you can decide what you want to do and have room to upgrade in stages. I did spend couple week ends on it but it was fun to tackle. ymmv
     
    Toyotoholic and AZBoatHauler like this.
  13. Feb 17, 2020 at 10:57 PM
    #13
    AZBoatHauler

    AZBoatHauler ASCM#3 Desert Dweller

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    So true. I just went through an audio upgrade and ended up with all JL Audio speakers, subs and amp with Kenwood HU and dynamat in doors and rear wall for under $2,500. I spent 3 days working on the truck to get everything where I was happy with it and then tore the dash apart again to add a front camera. Absolutely no regrets about going to an aftermarket HU and getting perfect audio signal.
     
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  14. Feb 18, 2020 at 10:26 AM
    #14
    TheBeast

    TheBeast The Beach

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    yep, just plan your build and execute :)
     
  15. Feb 18, 2020 at 10:58 AM
    #15
    purplenova

    purplenova Not a new member

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    Regarding your Focal speakers - did you install the the intergration line or the TOY line of speaker.
    Reason I ask - Crutchfield states the ISS 165's fit my tundra but dont list anything from their TOY line, but many state those are direct plug and play

    Examples:
    https://www.crutchfield.com/p_091ISS165/Focal-Integration-ISS-165.html
    https://www.crutchfield.com/S-cTLWadLgN0c/p_091IS690TY/Focal-IS-690TOY.html
     
  16. Feb 18, 2020 at 3:35 PM
    #16
    DCB500

    DCB500 New Member

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    Yes Crutchfield had some inaccurate information on those when I was looking as well. I have a double cab but I can assure you they fit....the 690’s are direct replacement and plug n play (although I did have to alter the dash tweeter plug for it to work). For the 165’s they do need adapters.

    3E538CA6-0AE1-4824-8465-011ADBB6FE7B.jpg 2B93BAD5-F8D4-4B3A-A86E-A49D85AE0CEB.jpg
     
  17. Mar 2, 2020 at 12:11 AM
    #17
    Electonicsfanatic

    Electonicsfanatic New Member

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    You can do the Audiocontrol or the JL Audio OEM to have time correction and you don’t need to keep the center channel. The Audiocontrol is the cheaper route. Wiring it is simple and then you could have the shop tune everything with an O-scope and time alignment. My old Tundra I had all Hybrid Audio speakers, Zapco amplifiers, and Zapco processor. Easily around $5k and had Scott Buwalda tune it. People swore they were sitting front stage at a concert.
     
  18. Mar 2, 2020 at 3:37 AM
    #18
    shawn474

    shawn474 New Member

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    I will definitely be the dissenting voice here....I kept my stock head unit and replaced all of my speakers and added a pancake powered subwoofer. I then ordered and installed the taco tunes amp with plug and play harness. I haven’t gotten around to tuning it yet (I will once the weather gets better). But it is a night and day improvement over stock. I am positive it will sound better with a DSP and I will get one when finances allow, but for now this is more than adequate and a hundred fold improvement over stock.
     
  19. Mar 2, 2020 at 6:29 AM
    #19
    LogCabins

    LogCabins Professional Procrastinator

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    Are you JBL or Non-JBL... that will determine if you "need" a DSP....if you are Non-JBL then the only thing you "need" is a LOC when keeping your stock HU (converts your stock signal wires to RCA outputs to plug into your amp)
    And for pricing...I am a Non-JBL and kept my stock HU and I will say up front that my system sounds absolutely AMAZING!
    Total cost was $1,313.00
    I bought everything from James and did mine in stages...not over a long time, maybe 2 months but so I wasn't purchasing everything in one pop.
    First i bought his Hertz door speaker upgrade with sail panels for the tweeters (Group Buy)
    Second I purchased the dash speaker upgrade with Kenwood sides and the tweeters w/bracket for the center channel (Group Buy)
    Lastly the biggest purchase, i bought the Sony 6channel amp with custom dual ported box and 2 10" JL 10wV0 (Amp Group Buy)

    Everything is simple install and you can do it yourself and if you get stuck James will answer emails really quickly
     
  20. Mar 2, 2020 at 9:15 AM
    #20
    ForceV4

    ForceV4 [OP] Pull my finger

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    After my last follow up with my local car audio place, the price tag went into mid 5k range. Never mind the fact that I about soiled myself on the previous visit. That time, he wanted to sell me the amp and sub combo but 'save me money' by using the stock speakers. He knew they would blow themselves clear into the next county but then I'd be back for new ones. He completely ignored my budget after asking. I dgaf how good the tunes will sound north of 5k, I'm NOT spending that kind of money. No way. No chance.

    I'm about 100% certain I'll be just fine without DPS. I've never had it before, never been in a car with it and didn't even know such a thing existed until the sales guys tried bending me over.

    So, my car stereo dreams are on the back burner until I call James. I'm pretty sure I'll buy a used Alpine PDX V9 or the JL 900/5 and the rest from James.

    That brings up another area of uncertainty. How much power do I really need? James had a Sony 5ch amp and an Infinity 5ch a while back, both with rms significantly lower than what I had been looking at. I'd like to understand this discrepancy before spending money since the amp is probably going to be my biggest expense.

    Oh, I should have mentioned that I'm rocking the Entune plus-no JBL here.
     
  21. Mar 2, 2020 at 11:15 AM
    #21
    purplenova

    purplenova Not a new member

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    Sure sounds to me like they were trying to pull one over on you - my guess is "Im prolly wrong" they saw the Tundra and immediately thought - "man with money".

    James is the way to go and he will set you up with true PNP gear. Hardest part is running the 4 gauge wire from the battery to the pass seat area, and thats not really hard.
    I also have non-JBL and have around 600-700 in mine to date. Next stop is all 4 doors and already got my quote from James. All in - less than $1100.00
    Everything replaced but the head unit and all 100% PNP.

    Dont pay shop to install anything - do it yourself.. If I can do it - you can do it..
     
  22. Mar 2, 2020 at 11:51 AM
    #22
    ForceV4

    ForceV4 [OP] Pull my finger

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    Man with money? Ha! Boy, did they get that wrong. I'll do the installation myself not because I want to but because I dont want to pay someone else to f up my truck. I've had enough of other people doing that to last me a very long time.
     
  23. Mar 2, 2020 at 11:56 AM
    #23
    purplenova

    purplenova Not a new member

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    I understand - gonna order my speakers from James prolly next month and install them myself just to save the money and I can make sure its done correctly and I will also learn something in the process.
     
  24. Dec 18, 2020 at 6:41 AM
    #24
    Moosebeavermaple

    Moosebeavermaple New Member

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    Hi everyone, I have a question which is not related to upgrades, but rather to something breaking down. I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction. I've run into some issues with the DPS in my Canadian 2016 SR5, so has the Entune Plus. In a nutshell: -30 Celsius weather one night, and the next day all my front speakers weren't working anymore. After some unsuccessful trial and error (buying used amp and HU on advice from local shop), I took it to Toyota and their electronics specialist said that the cold had done something to the wire coil going from the head unit to...wherever it goes next, the amp I'm guessing. So all he did is unplug the coil from head unit and replug it in a different connector in the back of head stereo unit that bypasses the DPS altogether and...voila, all speakers work.
    He said it's actually a common problem with the DPS unit that the Toyota Techs run into. But I definitely do notice a decrease in sound quality. Then I get told by Toyota that the wire coil costs something like $300can and is DISCONTINUED!!! On a 2016!!! Anyway, been driving this way ever since. If anyone has any input, I'm all ears. Hoping to find a place to buy the coil, and instructions to change it.
     

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