Driving Dynamics of the Turbo V6 vs Hybrid

I’m with you on that.

Every manufacturer is swinging hybrid or full electric. Heck some manufacturers are announcing full electric across the line.

In 15 years, there may no internal combustion engines offered. Who knows really.

Battery technology gets better as well. We have advanced a crap ton in the last 15 years. I can only wonder where the next 15 will take us.

And as for for my hybrid tundra. It’s a risk I’m willing to take. I have a 10yr extended warranty. Me and my entire family are toyota loyal through and through. Quirks, issues, cons and whatever it may be, I still can’t see myself purchasing another brand. I’ve had my all my negatives on a GM I purchased literally 15yrs ago and dumped that piece of crap asap.

Purchased a new Tundra first model year 2007, kept it till I got my 2016 Tundra Pro. Loved the 5.7v8 and all that jazz, but honestly from where I’m sitting my current Hybrid Limited Trd OR is leagues ahead of my 2018.

If I go V8 again it’s a clasic Chevelle 69 SS on air bags with 20’s.

Aloha

 

I guess as an answer look into the service life of Toyota’s other hybrids to get an idea.

There are plenty of Toyota hybrids that are over 15 years old still on the road. So I am personally not terribly concerned about the hybrid portion of the Gen 3 Tundra.

Now if you want to talk about the questionable design choices, poor value for the money (all 1/2 tons in fairness), long term reliability of the V35A-FTS etc, then that is fair.

I think the V35A-FTS is more likely to fail than the hybrid equipment to be honest.

 

Lets say that I enjoy my hybrid too. Pay it off in next 3 years trade in and have a $55000 trade value and get in a new truck again. While you are enjoying your non hybrid for next 15 years. What I'm saying is I am nearing retirement and I want to stay in a nice truck for around $200 a month through retirement. I'm sure this hybrid will be good for at least 10 years. Nice to have instant power on demand instead of lag I felt when drove non hybrid. But at same time I understand hybrid is just more stuff that could go wrong.

 

I have owned both a non-hybrid and a hybrid 2022 Tundra. I came from a 2012 5.0 F150 that I was driving for 10 years before the Tundras. I was on a long waitlist for my hybrid. When my F150 started looking like it wasn't going to make it to my hybrid allocation, I traded it for the non-hybrid Tundra to finish out my allocation wait. I have about 4k miles on each of the Tundra drivetrains. Here are my thoughts.

The TTv6 was a huge improvement over the 5.0 F150, especially when towing. Definitely could notice the turbo lag and I absolutely hated the delay when the auto stop needed to restart at a green light. Always tried to remember to turn it off or be light with the brakes.

The driving experience of the hybrid is a significant improvement over the TTv6. The electric motor gives you instant response when you need it. You can be cruising steady at 50mph, but if you just need a little gentile acceleration, it keeps the gas engine RPMs steady and just uses the electric motor to provide that extra boost. It gives it to you the moment you push the petal and will up the gas motor if you need more than what the electric can provide, but it's all seamless. Same thing if the gas motor is off and the light turns green - instant response. The gas motor will turn off in the hybrid, but you don't even notice it unless you're looking at the tach. If you need to inch up at a light, you just roll up on the electric motor. Gas engine stays off. In the TTv6, it would start the engine, you inch up, then it stops again.

I have a bit of a heavy foot at times. I put the TTv6 in sport mode pretty much every time I drove it. With the hybrid, I've learned to keep sport mode off when I'm in stop-and-go traffic. I hardly use sport mode in the hybrid unless I'm feeling extra saucy. The hybrid wants to absolutely LAUNCH when in sport mode and it's difficult to drive in sport in stop-and-go.

Towing with the hybrid is substantially better when towing, but I guess most people would expect that. My boat is only about 4k lbs, so not super heavy, but the truck pulls it like nothing is there. I was impressed with towing the TTv6 over the 5.0 F150, but the hybrid is another level.

Don't buy a hybrid Tundra if your sole objective is fuel economy. You're not going to see it. Toyota designed it for power not fuel economy and they have been crystal clear about this. Buy a hybrid if you want to haul ass or trailers. Buy a hybrid if you want the smoothest, most powerful, and most responsive drivetrain. Buy a TTv6 if your primary concerns are maximum storage or long-term maintenance costs.

Also, every hybrid comes with the 12.3" digital gauges and that's a nice feature. Some high end TTv6 trucks have this, but every hybrid has it, even the limited.

 

That’s one thing I like about the non hybrid , you can turn off that auto stop bs, I really wish that would just go away permanently, cant stand hearing and feeling the motor shutting off and restarting, hybrid or no hybrid

I was hoping someone would come up with a permanent shut off instead of doing every time you get in but at least there is that button

 

I still see 1st Gen Prius roaming the streets which were introduced in 97'



What are we going to do when Tundra go all electric 

 

Gonna stop taking road trips and towing more than 30 miles.

 

hopefully be able to tow my boat 600 miles in a day without long charge times and also be able to plug my tools into the onboard generator

 

it’sa parallel hybrid so it does have a clutch that brings the EV power through if I understand correctly . It is a wet clutch but I’m still curious as to the life of it . That’s probably one of my main concerns as to maintenance on the hybrid . Drives amazing but I don’t think that clutch would be in the warranty of the hybrid system

 

Ok hybrid people... Fine.
I guess I just had very little needs when upgrading from a 10 year old ram truck, and didn't see a need for hybrid.

But, I have a storage under my rear seat, and you don't!

 

For the Hybrid owners lacking storage this is how I dealt with it:




1 is plenty of storage space and can be removed easily if you need the whole bed!

 

How was drilling into the composite bed and is it sturdy or is there cracking risk?

 

No issues at all and sturdy. Drilled through like cement board.

 

Was just thinking of that for when my hybrid comes in. Those swingouts are pretty sweet.

 

I too will be ordering these for tow straps, tie downs, bungees, some tools etc. Not a bad solution and correct me if I’m wrong but they come in and out easy enough if I need the full use of the bed?

 

Yeah I’m you, I have owned 3 Tundras all with the 5.7 (1 supercharged) and neither one of them had any issues or gave me any sort of grief, they pulled my boat and big trailer much better than my 5.4 150 at the time. Also just like you I have owned numerous Toyotas since I was 16 (86 4runner with Unkillable 22re): 88 4runner, 03 4.7 4runner, 88 Camry, 08 Camry, 1998 Supra (sad face to this) plus the tundras. With everyone of these I haven’t done s**t but basic maintenance, long story short I’m willing to roll the dice on my 23’ hybrid.

 

Hybrid storage

 

I drove the Hybrid and non hybrid back to back today. I noticed a significant drag on the drivetrain when I let off the gas and prior to braking in city driving. Was weird at first and then I played with it and it is definitely there. Something I would have to get used to over time. The acceleration was better with hybrid then without. Enough to make me want the Hybrid? No, not for me. I owned enough turbos over the years and am fine with the new dual turbo setup and any turbo lag I might feel. I was also very impressed with the under seat storage in the non hybrid. That was the deal sealer for me in the non hybrid model. These were platinum models. I've fleet ordered a Platinum 4X4 6.5ft bed advance package, and am waiting confirmation of a build date.

 

Yep it literally slides up and out without effort. I had to use the full bed the other day and just popped it out and put it on the floor in the back seat area.

 

I really never entertained thought of test drive a Tundra when it had V8 in it because of fuel economy it got. I'm okay with fuel economy on one I got now. From deer camp to Walmart and back is about 44 miles round trip. I drive slow because deer are rutting during mid October thru Thanksgiving I can get some real good numbers by driving slower. But, its not realistic under normal conditions. I can get as much as 27 or 28 mpg. But that is driving 35-40 whole way to hopefully avoid hitting a deer as they run across road.

 

Great comments in this thread. I ended up driving a Limited Hybrid that a dealer had as a demo. Drove much better than the standard non hybrid. Put a deposit down for a black TRD pro that another dealer had in transit. Fast forward to the week after Thanksgiving and my sales guy calls me up and says the dealership owner is selling that Pro to a family member and offered me an incoming 1794 non hybrid (w/off road) instead. Unbelievable.

I started looking at ZR2’s and Ford Tremors after the Toyota experience. Ended up buying a 22’ Raptor (801A) package at MSRP last weekend. With my Tacoma trade in they sold at MSRP. Raptor is an awesome truck - so much capability for a bit more cash. Too many dealers are marking up these trucks when other manufactures have similar offerings that in some cases offer more bang for your buck.

 

i had that same truck and package, awsome suspension, hated the Ford V6 , sold it for 4k more than i paid for it 14 months later. Oh the seats were awesome!

 

My observations. Each responder to this thread opinion is based on driving style. No two people are alike. That said, I owned a Dec 22 build TRD OR Limited TT V6 6.5 bed for 8000 miles and now own a 23 TRD Pro Hybrid with just over 600 miles. This is my current comparison.

1. MPG.
The TTV6 was solid with good acceleration. I mostly ran in normal mode and would use Eco on the interstate. Virtually never used sport mode. Once the engine broke in, saw a significant MPG increase at approximately 3K on the interstate. One road trip running AC between 70-75MPH saw several tanks at just over 24MPG. Again emphasizing it was flat and no headwinds. Around town consistently saw between 16 and 18 MPG. Keep in mind I generally accelerate normally, no hard WOT. I did just a few WOT when passing other cars and it is a very strong motor moving the truck surprisingly fast for its size and weight.
The Hybrid brings smiles to my face. No lag (Directly related to the Hybrid Motor) Mountains of torque and noticeable faster on acceleration. Again, still breaking in so keep RPM's at or below 2200. All in normal mode. At this point, local MPG is anywhere between 16.5 and 18 MPG. Also, note I have a 3.5 mile commute from home to work and its winter with winter fuel and cold temps. Generally on the ride home take it a few days a week on a 15 mile loop home. The Hybrid sync is flawless. Absolutely no issues.

2. Engine/Trans:
8000 miles on the TTV6. Dropped/changed the oil/filter at 1K. Engine does not use any oil. The 22 TTV6 had significant turbo lag especially when cold. in the summer, once warm, the lag was almost gone. In the winter and below 50 degrees, a PIA. It also seemed to search for gears when coming to a stop. You had to make a noted complete stop, pause for it to start again in low gear. Despite this, it had ample torque to pull away nicely from any rolling stop. The 10 speed transmission was solid on the TTVV6.
The Hybrid is IMO opinion head and shoulders above the TTV6. No throttle lag, Tremendous torque. I have to keep reminding myself to keep it below 75MPH while breaking in. I just changed the Oil/Filter this weekend and no issues and no noted metal particles. The oil was very clean. I expect the MPG to improve substantially once the motor fully breaks in. The Trans shifts flawlessly and I think even better then the TTV6 Trans.

3. Suspension
TRD OR suspension was very nice and comfortable ride. Steering was accurate and it tracked true. At times, on big road dips felt large oscillation coming from the rear suspension. My take is the extra bed length and the OR suspension is not the Pro suspension. Note I am an old wrench turner and like a firm ride so this most likely is my bias.
Hybrid TRD Pro. I like everything about this. Ride is firm, steering accurate, improved ride and handling with none of the rear oscillation noted with the OR package. This difference clearly attributed to the Pro Springs, Fox shocks and larger sway bar.

4. Vehicle Noise
TRD OR. Initially very quite. After several months, picked up wind noise and had both rear window moldings replaced and a new drivers side rear view mirror. It was better, but still had the wind noise.
Hybrid TRD Pro. Extremely quite, no wind noise. Has what appears modified rear window moldings. Just have slight road noise from the tires. Note my wife drives a 20 Rav4 TRD OR. The Hybrid is much quieter then the Rav4.

5. Body Fit inside and outside.
Generally Statement. The Hybrid is put together will aligned panels and no gaps. It just appears as better quality control is in place. The Tundra OR Limited was good, but did have larger gaps in panels and the interior just was not as tight a fit as the Pro. One thing to note was the limited had the flimsy front seat side panels. The Pro seat panels are much more robust and are thicker. They are very solid.

6. Paint Finish: The one disappointment.
Tundra TRD OR Limited Celestial Silver No issues as it had a solid paint job.
Hybrid TRD Pro Black. Two panels-the Hood and passenger front fender have several areas with clear coat delamination. I picked up just over two weeks ago and went over the truck for several hours in direct sunlight and it all looked good. In the last two weeks-we've seen significant temperature drops and last Friday noted the delamination spots in off light conditions. Took it to local detail shop that confirmed the issue. Have an appointment Thursday with Regional Toyota collision center to review and document. Weather is not cooperating so have not been able to check closely since last Friday for any changes.

7. Fuel Gauge
The Limited had the dreaded stop and turn off and come back, start again and the fuel gauge now register full. I had an open ticket for it's repair once problem was isolated by Toyota. Interesting to note, the Pro does not have this issue to date.


In the past, owned three Rav4's, three 4Runners a Highlander and a couple of Camry's. The Rav4 were all solid quality built SUV's. The 20 is the best of them. The 4 Runners by far (built in Japan) all had great quality and no issues. This 23 Hybrid TRD Pro is on par with the 20 Rav4 with the exception of the recent found paint concern. I will work with Toyota and identify all damaged panels and have them repaint as the vehicle is just flat fun as my daily driver.

Last is perspective on speed and handling. I think the Hybrid TRD Pro once it breaks will be very fast for a 6000lbs truck. Fuel mileage determined by my right foot. For me, expect to see around 18MPG consistently with +20MPG on the road as I am not big with hard starts and foot into heavy acceleration with my trucks. The engine remains tight as it only has just over 600 miles. I expect it to follow same break-in with significant improvement around 3000 Miles.

Disclaimer: If I want fast starts and ego boosting, I take out my Supercharged Roush Mustang, 750HP with a complete road course suspension. 0-60 times in under 4 Seconds and top speed well over 165+. Think I'm kidding? Hit me up if in Allentown for a very quick ride. Oddly enough, running this on the interstate with cruise at 75MPH see 23-24MPG all at 94 Octane

 

I appreciate the lengthy write out. Let's guys like me who are on the fence really have a better understanding of the differences between the two.