Cruzer's Re-Build for the Rubicon

Seriously impressive stuff

 

If you have to ask.....You dont need to know....

 

FIFY

 

Hey Cruzer, long time listener, first time caller, love what you are doing with the Tundra and pushing the limits of a full size! I hope this works out for you, a very cool idea. However, based on personal experience with the Atlas shifters, they require some finesse to shift properly at times and think you are going to want to at least have the option to manually shift them. They also can require a good amount of force, as well as proper timing to get them into gear, especially going from high to low, which is done after shifting the tranny into neutral and just before coming to a stop. Very different than the factory turn dial.

Have you looked at the forces the servo is capable of? Are you currently planning on connecting the servo directly to the shift cable, or using the servo on a lever? You might be able to use some geometry on the levers and servos to generate enough force to get it to shift properly.

I also find that sometimes you need to wiggle it just a bit to get it to fall into gear, in particular with the planetary.

And to show that I am not blowing smoke out my ass, here is my setup, been running it since spring of 2020 without any issues once setup. The Atlas is a game changer, once you have it figured out you will be wondering what took you so long to get one. I'd also recommend taking the time to build a new crossmember to gain a ton of clearance under the truck with a flat belly. Let me know if you have any questions, here is where the Atlas install begins on my build:

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/wishbone-runners-build.238998/page-63





Pritchett Canyon

 

LOL just wrote the code etc no big deal hahah wow this is epic lol

 

That is a nice crossmember! Will definitely have to pick your brain later.

You must have a camera in my house or hacked Alexa cuz I was just doing the math on how much force the servo has...which I calculate to 200lbs/inch... which is a lot. I'm thinking I'll need at most 2 inches, for the right amount of throw, which takes me down to 100lbs/in of force, which is still plenty.
Sticks popping out of nowhere is definitely out of the question. The will ask questions and when she finds out that'll be the end of my wheeling career

Fortunately, I can somewhat imitate the "wiggling" of the stick by quickly pressing the buttons between neutral and Lo/Hi - or I could program it to do that.
By the way, what is the size of the thread and pitch on the Atlas shift rails (where it sticks out from the case)? I plan to attach a heim joint directly onto it and then use a shift rod - no cables, like this:


Just noticed that your Atlas is not really clocked that much. Any issues with your drive shaft angles?

 

Haha, cool, yep that should be plenty of force.

got it!

Cool, hope it works out, this is a very cool idea! Pretty sure 1/4-28, I think this is the nut for the cable shifter from the manual.

https://www.advanceadapters.com/4412

• NUT- CABLE SHIFTER- JAM 1/4-28 / 303317

You can poke around on the AA website, they have a ton of tech docs that you could probably confirm the size on, or just give them a call, they were always awesome and helpful to talk with.

It is clocked almost totally flat and I did not need to modify the front drive shaft at all, which was nice, and so far so good.

 

I was going to comment similar things to what @Wishbone Runner said. I don't entirely follow your units, is the servo a linear actuator (since you didn't list a torque value)? And if it's a linear actuator I don't follow why there is an increasing force given deflection... but I'm not a servo designer. Regardless, the shifters I have have a considerable leverage increase (probably on the order of 3x or 4x) so I could easily see the shifter requiring 100lbf of axial load if it's being a bitch. Couple that with the fact sometimes you need to have some drivetrain motion for the shifters to want to move (I think that's even stated in the Atlas manual to ease shifting) that may make the timing of the buttons difficult?

But my real thought was this seems like a lot of complicated shit you're adding back in, after just recently deleting parts to try and simplify the drivetrain. I would try to have a redundant manual back up at a minimum, since if your electronics get fried or shit themselves or your phone dies you're now SOL. Don't get me wrong, extremely cool! Food for thought is all.

 

I'll also add, while I don't know the specifics of the Tundra, a body lift made the install MUCH easier and was almost necessary on my 4Runner, especially with the case clocked flat.

 

The servos are rated at 380kg/cm. Linear? I guess it is. Because if the arm sticks out at 1cm from the center its at 380kg, 2cm out it cuts the force by half = 190kg. 2 inches is about 5cm, which is 23.75kg which is 52lbs....oops, math was wrong earlier. May have to go down to 4cm.

The way I have it designed in my head it's one way or the other. The servos and sticks cannot coexist because you can't move the servo motor unless it's powered up and instructed to do so. This is going to be a trial by fire. If it works, great! If it doesn't then I guess I'll have to install "detachable" sticks in the back seat somewhere that hides under the carpet with ridiculously long sticks. I have til February to figure it out

 

The Tundra appears to have a ton of space. I don't think I'll need to cut into the floor. I do plan to clock mine closer to the stock angle since my truck is lifted pretty high.

 

I read that post and in my head, I was like what the f*ck Cruz, what else are you doing that you keep a secret?

 

LMAO He's a Matrix hacker.

 

I just mean if the servo rotates instead of pushes axially, then for some reason they're not giving you a torque figure since their units don't make sense (should be kg*cm for example, though europeans are really weird about units in general, like using kg when they shouldn't).

Personally I would just have a way to disconnect the servo and bang/yank on the shifter shaft. It'd be a shame to be stuck in double low front dig in the snow ya know

 

Now that you’ve mentioned it, it might be possible to disconnect the shaft from the servo, since I believe I’ll need to add a coupler to extend the shaft below the truck. Hmmmmm

 

@Cruzer I just happened to find you 21 MOAB trip video totally cool stuff

 

@snivilous @Wishbone Runner
I know I’ll be building a crossmember to support the TC but what is the consensus or rule of thumb when it comes to bushings? I’ve seen TCs mounted to a crossmember with and without bushings. Is the bushing to prevent vibration transferring through the crossmember or is it to allow the TC some movement

 

To add to your confusion, what type of material to use ? Urethane aluminum polyethylene rubber or ???????

Just trying to help

 

The rule I've read and makes sense/follow is either everything is hard mounted or nothing is. If the engine and trans are on bushings, then so is the tcase. Otherwise when you hit the throttle the engine and trans will be compliant but the tcase wont be and it's mounts will react all of the load by themselves instead of sharing it with the rest of the drivetrain mounts. That logically makes sense to me and is what I do.

Generally bushings are to stop vibrations, though there is also the benefit again of being compliant and reducing shock loads and helping get things into alignment when bolting it together. I personally go all bushings for everything, and haven't had any issues yet and since the rest of the drivetrain is already on bushings I'd recommend that. As far as what type of bushings, I just get the Ruffstuff bushings for 1.75" tube since that is an easy and common size to work with

Also I'd recommend a rear output support, I use a TMR one but there's a few. They just clamp the output housing, and especially for you going with a four speed that's probably mandatory with how long and how much weight it has--though maybe that's your plan for your only cross member point (not sure where the Tundra trans mount is). This is how mine is setup:

Trans adapter cross member, bushings on the outside that bolt into tabs on the chassis:


Output mount, there are two vertical bushings on the bottom that the bolts go through:

 

Wow that is a work of art!

 

I was thinking of using a TMR. After seeing how you did yours I’ll definitely borrow your method

 

Agreed with @snivilous, I have poly on motor, tranny and the Atlas. Here is my Atlas support, I had read mixed things on using the tail cone support so copied this design I saw on Pirate. So far so good.

 

The only thing I don't like about our long wheelbase is that it hinders me from going up and over tall water falls. The front wheels can usually crest the water fall while the rear wheels are still on the ground or just starting to climb the obstacle, which usually ends up with the weight of the truck sitting on the frame making it impossible to drag itself up and over. Here's a perfect example:





The solution is obviously to shorten the wheelbase, which is on my to do list, but I got to thinking... What if I added rollers to the bottom of the frame? Allowing me to continue "rolling" forward.

So I found these weld on rollers, on Amazon of course, that are designed to allow trailers to roll on the ground rather than the trailer frame itself for example during steep short elevation changes.



I'd imagine several of these in a row just barely protruding from the bottom of the frame in key sections - not the whole frame. Would of course reinforce the frame and box it in. Design it in a way so that the rollers are detachable. That way I only install them when I wheel. Too much? Crazy? Ridiculous?

My other idea is to do a tummy tuck. Our fuel tanks hang below the frame and fuel skids don't last long on my truck. So I'm thinking swap out the large fuel tank for the smaller tank. Remove the 3 crossmembers that are directly above the tank, cut into the cab so that I could raise the fuel tank high enough so that I can install new beefier crossmembers under the tank but sits above the bottom of the frame. I could then bolt skid plates to the crossmember so I don't have to worry about placing the weight of the truck on the tank and I'd get an additional 2" of clearance. Got the idea from watching this Tundra on YT - look at all that space the tank could go up into.

 

If you are shortening the wheelbase why not saddlebag the gas tank between the Frame rails behind the axle and then 4link the rear.

 

So… you’ve moved on from the Find A Regular Cab Truck as a dedicated wheeler idea?

 

I have no interest in 4 linking it. I watch a lot of videos where people bend the bars - that'll be me all day.
I live in Cali so anything but the stock fuel tank will not pass a visual smog inspection .

 

No... although a DC has slowly been throwing itself in the mix. I found out that if I shorten a DC it would then have the same wheelbase as a CC Taco ~128", which is actually a good compromise for not being too short and not being too long. A DC would also have room to do the tummy tuck.

 

Yes! And some cab room for storage or roadside napping.

 

DCs are much easier to find too.

 

This is sooo boring. I'm gonna go mix concrete. LOL JK