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Catalytic Converter Issue

Discussion in '2nd Gen Tundras (2007-2013)' started by Tundra196, Mar 4, 2020.

  1. Mar 4, 2020 at 6:55 AM
    #1
    Tundra196

    Tundra196 [OP] New Member

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    I have a 2008 Tundra CrewMax Limited with 180,000 miles. I replaced the complete exhaust system last Feb 2019 with MagnaFlow Direct Fit driver and passenger side cats plus muffler and pipes - all purchased from AutoAnything. Six months later (Aug 2019) the passenger side cat failed (engine code P0420) and with a lot of back and forth calls and emails, MagnaFlow replaced the cat. Now its 6 months after that and again the replacement cat has failed and I'm getting the same engine code, P0420. MagnaFlow sounds like they are trying to refuse to replace the cat again, saying its probably a cylinder that's overheating which is causing the cat to fail. Can anyone tell me if this is a valid problem or are they BS'ing me? If an overheating cylinder is a possibility then what do I do to fix that? Any recommendations for a different brand direct-fit cat? I live in NY so needs to be OBD II compliant.

    Thanks for any help / advice anyone has to offer!
     
  2. Mar 4, 2020 at 7:16 AM
    #2
    Jrharvey02

    Jrharvey02 New Member

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    I had the same code pop up on my jeep wj when I installed a k&n cold air intake kit. I’d assume it’s not your cat that’s bad, it’s the excess air flow from the entire exhaust system causing the code. The “fix” to my jeep throwing p0420 code was to install a spacer in between the 02 sensor (throwing the code) and the pipe, essentially pulling the o2 sensor from the direct exhaust stream and more towards the edge.

    another member was having similar issues recently after installing new exhaust and I offered the same advice. Try using the search feature in top right corner (magnifying glass), maybe he has more info...
     
  3. Mar 4, 2020 at 10:29 AM
    #3
    huntertn

    huntertn New Member

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    I have seen a bad O2 sensor cause that code too. Did you look at the voltage output of the O2 sensors and measure the temperature of the cat inlet vs outlet to make sure it is the cat? If the cat is indeed bad I would look at something else causing 2 cats to fail. I would think that even a crappy cat should last longer than 6 months unless it is overheating or getting contaminated.
     
  4. Mar 7, 2020 at 8:16 AM
    #4
    blackdemon_tt

    blackdemon_tt Battery Slayer

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    Over in the Celica forums going aftermarket cats fail pretty often. Its often better to spend the extra cash and go OEM. It doesn't mean you can't pass smog which is the same cycle I go through on my Celica on a yearly basis, over the last 7-8 years, I reset the CEL drop 5 gal of gas in the tank and drive it for 5-10 miles before taking it in for smog and it passes every time. I do have an obd 2 reader, and I have logged exact miles before the CEL comes back on. Is it a hassle?, Yes, but sometimes good enough to save the $1500 for a new cat, I'll most likely buy a new cat once it stops working completely ending the pre-smog cycle, eventually. Hope this helps

    Edit: BTW I live in CA.
     
  5. Mar 7, 2020 at 10:59 AM
    #5
    Dr_Al

    Dr_Al New Member

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    Do you have an Android phone (I'm sure there's an app for the iPhone too)? You can download an app called Torque (most likely others but that's the one I have) and get a cheap bluetooth adapter for the OBDII port. With it you can monitor the voltages of the O2 sensors. The upstream one will slowly go up and down while the downstream one will stay flat, above a certain value (I think it was over 1 volt or maybe 1.2 volts) once hot.

    Often with the aftermarket cats they don't get as hot as the original ones. It could be they are too far away from the heads, the headers (if you have them) loose too much heat, or they aren't as think as the originals and don't have enough mass to stay hot. Checking the temps could help but if you don't know what they should be it's probably not going to help much without asking someone else to check theirs. You could try wrapping the pipes all the way down to and including the cats.

    Or you could just fool the downstream O2 sensor to test if the heater is bad. Because the heat from the engine takes some time to get down to the secondary O2 sensor a heater is added to them. It heats up so the engine can run optimally quicker. Often the primary O2 sensors will have them as well unless they are very close to the head. With the Torque app you should see both of the secondary O2 sensors operating very similar. If not then I would suspect the heater. With a little electronic trickery you could just make it so a voltage level above what's needed is always being sent. This only works with the secondary O2 sensors.

    On my 2000 Tundra one of the secondary O2 sensors went bad. Because of the way it failed (they have 4 wires, 2 of which are a heater) it was always reading a voltage. When I said the voltage reading was flat it's not exactly flat. The bad O2 sensor flat as a pancake and was always reading a little over 2 volts, even when the exhaust was cold. But the truck never threw a code because I think the computer only looks for the voltage to drop below a minimal amount. This was a number of years ago so my numbers could be wrong.
     
  6. Mar 7, 2020 at 11:09 AM
    #6
    BENWALES

    BENWALES New Member

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    Usually I don’t see cats fail that fast unless they’re being filled with unburnt fuel or oil. I don’t necessarily blame the manufacturer on a double failure. What weight engine oil are you using? Is your truck burning oil? How old are the spark plugs? How old are the rear O2 sensors?When the old and second cats came out were they rattling? Was there any damage to the shipping container on the new cats? Have you run a can of SeaFoam p/n SS14 through the engine to clean the valves yet? (That shit is really awesome and works wonders) I could be wrong, but you need to do some checking before you blame the manufacturer on this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2020
    Tundra196[OP] likes this.
  7. Mar 9, 2020 at 9:23 AM
    #7
    Tundra196

    Tundra196 [OP] New Member

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    I have oil changes done at my local Toyota dealer, not sure what weight oil they use. Truck does not burn any oil, spark plugs replaced by dealer at 120,000 miles, O2 sensors were replaced last yr when I put in the new exhaust system (used Denso OEM sensors), no rattling in cats of any kind - passenger cat was cracked, that's why I replaced the system, no damage to shipping box. I'm a nurse so not too mechanically knowledgeable but I will look into the SeaFoam. Thanks for the help!
     
    BENWALES[QUOTED] likes this.
  8. May 20, 2020 at 1:21 PM
    #8
    Tundra196

    Tundra196 [OP] New Member

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    Sorry it's taken so long to reply, work has been crazy. I took your advice and bought a $25 O2 sensor extender and it worked perfect! Turns out it was my fault all along, I live in NY so bought a NY compliant cat (seems logical, right???). Well it turns out Toyota runs California compliant cats and that's why it was failing. Fortunately the extender worked and it saved me from buying another $700 cat! Thanks again!!!
     
  9. Jan 24, 2024 at 9:00 AM
    #9
    07 Tundra Steve

    07 Tundra Steve New Member

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    Magnaflow Cats, 305/60R18 Nitto G2, Firestone Airbag Lift Rear with on board compressor, Bilstien 3" Lift Front, 2010 Stock Front Diff, Fifth Wheel Towing, ALL OEM Replacement parts except for cats, Soon To Receive Sequoia AWD Transfer
    Hopefully there's still some action to be had on this thread and I'm going to ping @ViktorG and @Wynnded because they and some others have given me great advice in the past.

    My '07 5.7 DCLB 4WD is just about to turn 400K miles in a month or two. Beside a recent head gasket change which I covered in depth on another thread to encourage and help others, the only real nagging issue I have are the cats. Over the years, it'll start with throwing a code, then eventually the element comes loose and sounds like a hammer banging on the exhaust. Going thru it again now, started two days ago. I think I've been thru 6 or 7 cats, all MagnaFlo, front cat, both sides. I've learned not to get rid of the old cat pipes, but rather tack weld both flanges at the ends of the tube to a piece of square tubing, support the tube in the midst of the assembly to hold everything in place, cut out the old cat and weld in a new one. Saves a tremendous amount of $$.

    The first original cat went out around 150K miles and the interval of failure is picking up. I'm leading up to what I hope is a dumb question but first a few details: The truck uses no oil so I don't think oil is fouling the cats. I ran 92 octane for years until about 9 months ago, switched to regular but only Marathon or Shell gas, no off brands. As the head gasket was failing, the coolant leak into cylinder 2 was not detectable for weeks until it finally let go and was rolling steam on the last day. Until that catastrophic HG fail, I kept getting a misfire at startup that usually cleared, eventually leading to a continuous misfire two or three times that cleared after cooling off, keep this in mind as I continue. At this time, the DS cat is bad and banging miserably at idle, not so bad at highway speed. I have two Walker cats for the DS front and rear that should arrive today and I'll get them welded in tonight to replace the bad cat. Last night I gave a hard excelleration entering onto the bypass and it dropped a cylinder, misfiring for 20 miles, CEL flashing, not coming out of it all the way home. This morning, I fired it up, no misfire. I unplugged the negative on the battery to reset the computer and drove it easy back to work where I'll replace the cats tonight.

    So here's what I hope is my dumb question. With the series of misfires first triggered with the coolant from the bad HG and now the misfire last night which is probably related to the bad cat and possibly skewed fuel curve with the computer, could the coils be getting weak and causing incomplete fuel burn to foul the cats? The coils are all original except for cylinder 2 which was the affected cylinder with the HG leak. I figured the fouled plug may have compromised the coil so I replaced it. The plugs have 8K miles on them, replaced them with the HG repair. I'm thinking first, that weak coils could make the plugs prone to fouling, especially give this occurence last night on fresh plugs, and second, weak coils could cause incomplete fuel burning and thus fouling the cats.

    It might be obvious to others that the original coils with 400K miles, 17 years old need replaced, but could they be the root cause of the multiple cat failures in my case. ANY input is appreciated!
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2024
  10. Jan 24, 2024 at 11:52 AM
    #10
    07 Tundra Steve

    07 Tundra Steve New Member

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    Quick update: new coils from Toyota are ordered. Just seems too obvious to me after a little more research. I will be following up in a few months on this.
     
  11. Jan 24, 2024 at 12:28 PM
    #11
    equin

    equin Texarican Tundra

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    I don’t know if the old coils could be the culprit, but when my cats got stolen, I didn’t want to wait 10 months to replace them with OEM. So I installed the Magnaflow cats along with new O2 sensors (since they got cut).

    After a while, they threw a code. I don’t remember the actual code, but my code reader said it was “low efficiency cats” or something to that effect. I was able to clear it, and be on my way until it would throw the same code. As time went on, the check engine light pretty much stayed on, risking a fail at my next annual emissions test. Turns out, Tundra ECUs are very sensitive to aftermarket cats, and unfortunately the low efficiency code is not uncommon. This went in for about two years until I gave in and ordered the OEM cats. I’ve had the OEM cats on for almost a year and no more codes or check engine lights. Anyway, not saying your issue is the same as mine, but thought I’d add my experience to this thread in case it helps.
     
    Wynnded and 07 Tundra Steve like this.
  12. Jan 24, 2024 at 1:11 PM
    #12
    07 Tundra Steve

    07 Tundra Steve New Member

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    @equin I think the aftermarket cats are definitely a factor, and to that point, I used to have O2 spacers on the sensors in the past which seemed to help with the CEL. However, a few to several months after the light comes on, there will be a catastrophic failure with the element coming lose and banging around loudly. I'd think it's one thing for the computer to not like what it is seeing at the O2 sensor but another thing with the destruction of the cat.

    I've got a feeling that if I'm to ever put this CEL to rest, it'll take OEM cats and nothing else. I'd like to reinstall the O2 spacers with the aftermarket cats, but I can't seem to find them anywhere. I'll probably wind up buying the m18 x 1.5 tap and make my own set, we'll see.

    Thank you for the input.
     
    equin likes this.
  13. Jan 24, 2024 at 5:52 PM
    #13
    Wynnded

    Wynnded What MPG...

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    This pretty much summarizes what I've read regarding Tundras and aftermarket cats. That's about all I can contribute, I've never had a cat go bad on any vehicle (that had them) I've ever owned.
     
    equin[QUOTED] likes this.
  14. Jan 25, 2024 at 3:42 PM
    #14
    equin

    equin Texarican Tundra

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    My only other experience with exhaust is a header I installed on a 4 cylinder 2.7l ‘99 Tacoma and an exhaust leak at one of the Tacoma’s flanges. I never messed with cats before until all 4 got stolen from my Tundra a few years ago. Reading all the threads on stolen cats, it seems afternarket cats are hit or miss with a supposedly finicky Tundra ECU, with a few like me throwing efficiency codes and others never having any problems.
     
  15. Jan 25, 2024 at 4:03 PM
    #15
    07 Tundra Steve

    07 Tundra Steve New Member

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    Just got the new FlowMaster cats (FLO-2220125 from Summit) welded in last night and all's well so far. The new coils are a few days out yet, so waiting on them. I also ordered exhaust wrap to do the tube from the collectors to the first cats, I read somewhere that the higher heat will make them more efficient.

    Come to think of it, the Magnaflows have larger tube diameter, by 1/4" I think. I suppose this would slow the velocity of the exhaust (by increased tube volume) plus increase the heat dissipation (by increased surface area of the larger tube) ahead of the cats meaning more time and more surface area to cool the exhaust gasses before the cats. I will say there was a solid 1/2 MPG improvement when I installed the Magnaflows. And I'll also say that when the DS was on back order, I ordered another brand, maybe Eaton or something like that. When I received it, the tube size was smaller and the bends were severely crimped and crumpled unlike the nicely mandrel bent Magnaflows. I sent it back and waited for the Magnaflow to come in.

    No CEL... YET. I believe it will take a day or two to show up if there is a current issue with the exhaust, so we'll see. If I can get this figured out without ordering the pricey OEMs, I'll be doing something for sure!

    Note that both, the front and rear cat elements were loose and banging, which is a first time for the rears going out like that.

    More to come...
     
    Wynnded and equin like this.

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