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Camshafts Slightly moved Trying to Replace Cam Seals

Discussion in '1st Gen Tundras (2000-2006)' started by michael.crg, Jun 8, 2024.

  1. Jun 8, 2024 at 1:25 PM
    #1
    michael.crg

    michael.crg [OP] New Member

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    Total newbie to mechanics work and this is the first time I’m doing the timing belt. One of my mechanic friends was telling me I should go ahead and replace the cam seals while I have the timing belt off, which I thought is a good idea. I'd rather not have to take the whole timing belt off to do it again in the future and I'm pretty sure my right camshaft seal is busted and leaking oil. When I was trying to remove the crankshaft for both when using a tool, the flywheels moved. Did this on both camshaft flywheels moronically, but moved them back to their original positions. Left one on as moved all the way back to the first dash mark before the T and second one was only slightly moved. Before and after Pictures below. First one is before on the left side, second is after on left and third was the right, which was already smack dab on the T before I accidentally moved the camshafts:

    IMG_1168.HEIC.jpg IMG_1169.HEIC.jpg IMG_1170.HEIC.jpg

    Will this cause a problem with timing and do I need to do anything further before I continue the job? I've decided I'm going to tackle the seals at a future date, along with some other things. I just wanted to clarify that it'll be fine or not to continue from here. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2024
  2. Jun 8, 2024 at 1:35 PM
    #2
    shifty`

    shifty` Louisiana Saturday Night

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    You may find this site helpful: https://www.toyoheadquarters.com/threads/toyota-2uz-fe-timing-belt-marks-4-7l.335/
     
  3. Jun 8, 2024 at 2:00 PM
    #3
    JakeJake

    JakeJake Slippery Snake

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    Your terminology is somewhat confusing.

    As long as you didn't turn the camshaft timing pulleys a full revolution (180 out) just line them back up (going the opposite direction of the oopsie) to the proper timing marks and cary on.

    Do the camshaft seals while you are in there. Man>Machine.
     
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  4. Jun 8, 2024 at 2:07 PM
    #4
    michael.crg

    michael.crg [OP] New Member

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    Sorry about that, it looks like everything is fine. Im just clarifying since this is my first time doing the job and dont want to fuck anything up lol
     
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  5. Jun 8, 2024 at 5:25 PM
    #5
    michael.crg

    michael.crg [OP] New Member

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    Okay so new problem, I went ahead and aligned everything with the timing marks on the cam and crank, the little dot on the crank and the divots on the pulleys that were aligned to the T. I had to move the crankshaft over slightly to line up the CR mark and seat the timing belt fully. After 4 360 rotations this is what I'm looking at:

    IMG_1173.HEIC.jpg IMG_1174.HEIC.jpg IMG_1175.HEIC.jpg

    So from what I've already read up on I know I'm going to have to recompress the tensioner and take the belt off to reset it, since the marks don't match up with the marks on the pulleys, but how do I go about setting everything back to its starting point so I don't mess up the timing again?

    I can elaborate more on it if need by, I'm a newbie at this so just trying to make sure I do things right! hahaha. I’m done for today and I’m going to research things further. Hoping I can get her running by tomorrow but if not she’ll sit in the garage for another week :/
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2024
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  6. Jun 9, 2024 at 12:51 AM
    #6
    Pnwtundy

    Pnwtundy New Member

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    So just to clarify, you had everything lined up correctly when you put the belt on? If it did, I'll bet you're fine. If you are trying to see the marks on the belt line up again, that will probably take a number of rotations (IIRC, 7-8? maybe more?).
     
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  7. Jun 9, 2024 at 5:40 AM
    #7
    michael.crg

    michael.crg [OP] New Member

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    Yes. Both cams were lined up at the T mark and crank was at top 0 + some to line up the CR mark with the notch in the crank.

    I did read up and saw that the first time you put the marks on was the only time you care about them, but I’m following the TRQ tutorial and he said that after two 360 degree rotations, the points will match up again. That part of the video is at 28:22 https://youtu.be/__7KouGrRfg?si=G3MyDqrSq0v2IBqP

    there’s just a lot of conflicting information from other sources and I want to make sure the job is correct so I don’t mess up my valves.
     
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  8. Jun 9, 2024 at 6:09 AM
    #8
    Weagle

    Weagle Where the hell did I put that socket?

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    I don't have actual experience on the tundra because I'm just now about to do my first timing belt but I would've thought one full revolution, however two revolutions at most (of the crankshaft) since one is the compression stroke and then the return/exhaust stroke
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2024 at 6:19 AM
  9. Jun 9, 2024 at 6:10 AM
    #9
    JakeJake

    JakeJake Slippery Snake

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    Go back and study the link @shifty` provided and make sure you used the correct marks.

    Cam timing pulley marks and their corresponding belt marks should align with the (T) and the Crankshaft timing pulley mark and corresponding belt mark is the divot ~4 teeth to the left of where you are now.

    To check yourself rotate the engine 1 full revolution until the cam timing pulleys and the crankshaft timing pulley land on the correct indicators. If they do not after a few revolutions you are out of time.

    You can rotate the assembly by hand all day without damaging anything, So do this as many times as it takes to verify the correct timing marks, or decide that you are out of time.

    All the indicators should align with their references before you continue.
     
  10. Jun 9, 2024 at 6:43 AM
    #10
    michael.crg

    michael.crg [OP] New Member

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    Alright, I think I’m most definitely in time. I installed the timing belt marks correctly on initial install. The cams pulley marks lined up at the T, crank at center 0 which I have lined up in sharpie on the crank housing (see picture).

    After two revolutions of the crank, the sharpie marks on the crank are lined back up, and so did the cams with the T:

    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

    So I think I’m good! Let me know if I’m wrong, but I’m going to start back up in a couple hours after I run some groceries. Thanks for all the help
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2024 at 6:58 AM
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  11. Jun 9, 2024 at 8:15 AM
    #11
    Pnwtundy

    Pnwtundy New Member

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    Watch it again! he's talking about the marks on the cogs, you even see him point at the marks, and the belt marks are no longer lined up.
     
  12. Jun 9, 2024 at 8:43 AM
    #12
    michael.crg

    michael.crg [OP] New Member

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    You're right! I must've just been exhausted yesterday and wasn't hearing things right. I was 8+ hours into the job by the time I made this post, so looks like most of the fault was on me. Glad I got everything clarified though, time to continue the job!
     
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  13. Jun 9, 2024 at 8:57 AM
    #13
    Pnwtundy

    Pnwtundy New Member

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    Hell ya man! Nice work! Get it all back together, double check your torques on everything, and pour yourself a tall one.

    I freaked out a few times doing mine as well, went through the same emotions as you. Go slow and don't over think it, and you'll be good
     
  14. Jun 9, 2024 at 12:20 PM
    #14
    michael.crg

    michael.crg [OP] New Member

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    Gonna have to hold off on the drink tonight :rofl:

    IMG_1180.jpg IMG_1181.jpg

    Bad stud when torquing down the tensioner. I should’ve known, it was taking way longer to torque than anticipated. Luckily the break is sticking out so extraction should be okay. Not sure how tight it is in there

    Edit: Matching bolt for comparison:
    image.jpg

    Damn that’s fucked… Going to ace to get some replacement pieces
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2024 at 12:33 PM
  15. Jun 10, 2024 at 8:56 PM
    #15
    Pnwtundy

    Pnwtundy New Member

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    ah man! that sucks...ya it looks like you may have just enough to grab and get it out. Are you sure you weren't using the wrong length bolt and it bottomed out?
     
  16. Jun 11, 2024 at 4:30 AM
    #16
    shifty`

    shifty` Louisiana Saturday Night

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    Make sure you route the crank position sensor harness properly!! It’s the #1 mistake people make when doing timing, it can flip out and get cut by belt. I can’t tell on mobile (tiny screen) if you did tuck the harness behind WP/its bracket.
     
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  17. Jun 11, 2024 at 7:39 AM
    #17
    87warrior

    87warrior Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

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    Hold up. The "T" mark is NOT the camshaft alignment mark. At TDC the camshaft sprockets should align with the dash next to the "T" not the "T".
    Screenshot 2024-06-11 093651.png

    It looks like you timed the cams at the "T" mark while the crank was at TDC. At TDC, the marks should line up as indicated in the FSM screenshot above.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024 at 7:45 AM
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  18. Jun 11, 2024 at 10:47 AM
    #18
    michael.crg

    michael.crg [OP] New Member

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    So I think there was just a fissure or crack in the screw from it being torqued down too hard on a previous job, because I couldn’t even get it to 25 foot pounds before it snapped on me. I actually got it out really easily by using a left handed drill bit. I got everything I needed for the extraction, including a plug tap but never even had to use it! Pretty sure I messed up some threads at the far end of the hole, but the replacement screw isn’t long enough to reach them, so I decided to torque it down and it was fine
    IMG_1189.jpg IMG_1190.jpg

    I’ll check that! I have to take the right cover off anyways because the stud screw came loose when I was trying to take it off and put a hose bracket underneath. That’s where I left off before bed. Job should be fully done today knock on wood!

    Yeah I was worried about that, but funny enough I turned the crank to its exact position at TDC + 50 without thinking to get the belt to line up when the cams were on the T. Only reason why I knew I did this was when I put the crankshaft pulley on, it was aligned with the mark on the plastic housing and pointing in the direction of the idler pulley. So all is well!
     
  19. Jun 11, 2024 at 6:53 PM
    #19
    michael.crg

    michael.crg [OP] New Member

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    Well I guess I wasn't so sure about the timing. Idle is really rough right after I got the car started. No problems with the water pump leaking or anything like that matters now.

    If there's any other suggestions great but looks like I'm going in for round 2.
     
  20. Jun 11, 2024 at 8:20 PM
    #20
    michael.crg

    michael.crg [OP] New Member

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    So a little more info on the problem, at idle, its super rough and it almost feels like its losing power. There's no vibrations or anything, just a clear loss of power and maybe misfiring? Not sure. Rev'ed the truck up a very small amount, just like it would be if I was accelerating without any problems.

    After doing some read up on other possible problems, I'm curious about whether or not if the ECU is just relearning the idle. I had the battery unplugged from the car since I started the job, which I've been doing little by little since last Monday.

    I mean, I KNOW FOR A FACT that the two cam marks were on the on the T and the crank was TDC + 50 so that's why I'm baffled. Rotated the crank 720 twice and the marks lined up both times. You can even see in the previous pictures on post #10 of where the points were when I sealed up the engine, because I did not move it afterwards.

    I'm not really butthurt if I have to do it again, but what kind of damage would I be risking if I drove around on it to test out that theory? I don't want to cause irreparable damage.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024 at 8:34 PM
  21. Jun 11, 2024 at 8:30 PM
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    Pnwtundy

    Pnwtundy New Member

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    You make sure you don't have any vacuum lines disconnected?
     
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  22. Jun 11, 2024 at 8:37 PM
    #22
    michael.crg

    michael.crg [OP] New Member

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    I haven't checked them yet. They would just be on top of the engine block and to the intake correct? My intake is after market so it might be a little different but I'll give those a check tomorrow.

    Gonna upload a video of the idle I just took and then hit the hay before I blow my own head gasket
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024 at 8:43 PM
  23. Jun 11, 2024 at 8:43 PM
    #23
    michael.crg

    michael.crg [OP] New Member

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    Video of the idle aside from the other normal engine noises, listen to the sound of the engine hum. Also at 1:13 I have no idea what that clicking noise is, not sure if I should be concerned. Should be uploading soon.

    https://youtu.be/YsfvJtLiCH4
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024 at 9:03 PM
  24. Jun 11, 2024 at 9:31 PM
    #24
    bmf4069

    bmf4069 Yup, that's a whole ass truck in a dishwasher

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    How long has it been idling weird? Let's a left and right pic of the engine bay to see the vacuum lines.
     
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  25. Jun 12, 2024 at 5:45 AM
    #25
    michael.crg

    michael.crg [OP] New Member

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    These are the pictures I could snap before I had to drive to work. One of the pictures is me pointing at something, but after looking at other engine bays it just looks like a bleeder for the vacuum system. Anyways let me know if I missed anything:

    IMG_1194.jpg IMG_1195.jpg IMG_1196.jpg IMG_1197.jpg IMG_1198.jpg IMG_1199.jpg IMG_1200.jpg IMG_1201.jpg IMG_1202.jpg IMG_1203.jpg
     
  26. Jun 12, 2024 at 5:52 AM
    #26
    michael.crg

    michael.crg [OP] New Member

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    Just noticed in the last picture the vacuum line next to the dipstick. That could be something or just how the flash took the picture, but I think it’s clearly going to nothing!
     
  27. Jun 12, 2024 at 7:16 AM
    #27
    87warrior

    87warrior Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

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    Verify it is timed correctly. I've read and reread what you did... I am not convinced it is timed right.
    - Set crank to TDC
    - Pull cam sprocket covers
    - Verify both cam sprockets are lined up with the | not the T

    I've done four 2UZ timing belts and I personally don't fuss with the 50° BTDC rotation. It adds a bit of ambiguity to getting it timed correctly. You do have to make sure not let the cam move if you pull the belt at TDC.

    The thing you are pointing at on the charcoal canister is normal. It is a vent.
     
  28. Jun 12, 2024 at 7:21 AM
    #28
    michael.crg

    michael.crg [OP] New Member

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    That’s the plan today since it’ll be relatively easy to diagnose.

    First I’m going to check the vacuum lines when I get home and reconnect them if there is any, start up the car and see if that fixes the problem. If not, doing what you said.
     
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  29. Jun 12, 2024 at 7:47 AM
    #29
    Pnwtundy

    Pnwtundy New Member

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    I'd follow @87warrior 's advice if you didn't check that the TDC marks lined up after you had it all together.

    If it's good, I still feel like it's vacuum related. If you're talking about the 2 lines that look plugged next to the dipstick, those are breathers, and they look fine.

    Also at the end of your video, looked like your had your A/C on. I wonder if that could cause it to idle rough when the ECU is attempting to relearn.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2024 at 7:52 AM
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  30. Jun 12, 2024 at 7:54 AM
    #30
    kentuckyMarksman

    kentuckyMarksman New Member

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    I had to dig in deep in an engine one time, had a super rough idle when I got it back together. In my case, one of my spark plug wires weren't seated correctly, easy fix once I realized what it was. Point being, check all the dumb easy stuff before digging back into the engine.
     
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