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BMW Supra...

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Darkness, Dec 30, 2018.

  1. Dec 31, 2018 at 8:25 PM
    #31
    Donkeypunch

    Donkeypunch New Member

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    I agree that the MKV Supra seems like a let down so far. However, in the MKIV there was some great German engineering that contributed to it’s greatness. In particular the GETRAG 6spd that could handle over 1K hp and 800lbs of tq.

    For me, I’m kinda glad it might be a flop. Keeps the value of mine up.
     
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  2. Dec 31, 2018 at 8:34 PM
    #32
    Donkeypunch

    Donkeypunch New Member

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    It’s nothing a MOTEC couldn’t handle. Have you seen the 2JZ swapped FRS that retains full functionality as the factory ECU? ECU and wiring wouldn’t be a big issue.

    To me, keeping it an inlines 6 really means that there will be plenty of room to swap in a 2JZ in the engine bay and have room for adequate cooling, e.g larger radiator. Trying to squeeze in a 2JZ in to a car built for a V6 or inline 4 makes it a tight squeeze.
     
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  3. Dec 31, 2018 at 10:45 PM
    #33
    Darkness

    Darkness [OP] New Member

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    I found it interesting that the article mentioned something to the effect of "if planning a 2jz swap get the 4 cyinder". They must be anticipating this swap, hopefully there are secret provisions to make it easy.
     
  4. Jan 1, 2019 at 6:21 AM
    #34
    ninjajay

    ninjajay Posting from the toilet

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    Toyota did a fully bespoke performance car a few years ago. I think it would be a good example of what it would have to cost these days.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Jan 1, 2019 at 7:10 AM
    #35
    gdiep

    gdiep New Member

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    Collaboration with other manufacturers is often done to share development costs, use each other’s knowledge of specialties, and as a way to “shake hands” for potentially other collaboration and partnerships later on. There’s a lot of collaboration going on amongst auto manufacturers that isn’t publicized because it isn’t as grand as an entire car.

    However, im pretty sure that Toyota didn’t go into the collaboration with the intention to build a crappier car. Toyota knows what it’s doing. People knock on the BRZ/FRS mashup, but that is the best handling car Toyota has made in a long time (that is affordable). With the manual, it was dang near perfect (needed about 50 lb/ft torque more).

    I’m looking forward to the Supra. I don’t care that it’s not 100% Toyota if it results in a better car with Toyota reliability.
     
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  6. Jan 1, 2019 at 7:48 AM
    #36
    rebmo

    rebmo 2010 DC 4.6L 4wd

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    Rumors on this car/concept going to production have been out there for years. Maybe someday. Hoping more for a Tundra redesign... Which will come first?
     
  7. Jan 1, 2019 at 8:03 AM
    #37
    Outbound

    Outbound American stuck in a Canadian body

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    Reading some more about it I've seen they may not offer a manual transmission. What's the bloody point then?

    I've also see estimates that it'll sell for around $86,000. Is that USD or CAD?

    For $86,000 CAD I'd buy the Lexus RC F. 467HP with a 5.0V8.

    For $86,000 USD converting into CAD, I'd buy the Lexus C 500.


    I love the older Supras. I'm not loving this new one.
     
  8. Jan 1, 2019 at 8:46 AM
    #38
    BestGen

    BestGen California Über Alles

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    I was hoping it would be a smack in the face from Toyota to the world. Instead some next level frs/brz collusion. Couldn't they have colluded with Yamaha again? Didn't they design the first I-6 for them way back when..? At least there is room for another. Ultimately I still like it, just wish it was pure Toyota/Japanese. :burp:IMG_2556.jpg
     
  9. Jan 1, 2019 at 9:09 AM
    #39
    SR5TRDTUNDRA

    SR5TRDTUNDRA El Pickup Azul

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    Yup exactly!! Agreed! If it’s not all Toyota no thanks!!
     
  10. Jan 1, 2019 at 9:23 AM
    #40
    Darkness

    Darkness [OP] New Member

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    It isnt like Toyota is trying to build something for the first time, ground up, like the LFA. They have several Supra-like models in the Lexus lineup.
     
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  11. Jan 1, 2019 at 10:45 AM
    #41
    myk1013

    myk1013 New Member

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    That figure is probably from an older article. The newer articles are saying it'll probably be in the 40K range (USD) it doesn't make sense to price it that high because of the specs. 330 - 350 HP. There are a lot more car you can buy for $80K. i.e. Corvette, M3, RCF, Shelby 350, RS5
     
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  12. Jan 1, 2019 at 12:44 PM
    #42
    ninjajay

    ninjajay Posting from the toilet

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    Do you mean the i4, v6 or v8 powered ones? Would it be more or less "Supra" as a reskinned RC350?
     
  13. Jan 1, 2019 at 12:49 PM
    #43
    Outbound

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    Interesting. I haven't seen the newer pricing. But yeah, it's still to high. $40K USD puts it around $54K CAD. The 86 comes in around $30K, topping out at $40K for the max trim levels. Only 200HP, but 100hp isn't worth $10 - $20K imho.

    The 86 is a cool little car and very Supra-esque. Not sure why they wouldn't put a more powerful engine in it and rebrand it as Supra 2.0.
     
  14. Jan 1, 2019 at 12:51 PM
    #44
    gdiep

    gdiep New Member

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    Because Supra is a “halo” car for Toyota. It has to be more special and meaningful than just a more powerful 86/FRS.
     
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  15. Jan 1, 2019 at 4:40 PM
    #45
    Darkness

    Darkness [OP] New Member

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    Any of the above is more Toyota than a Z4. Keep in mind its coming with a 2.0 4 cylinder option anyhow.
     
  16. Jan 1, 2019 at 4:43 PM
    #46
    ninjajay

    ninjajay Posting from the toilet

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    I agree it's more Toyota, but I asked whether it'd be more "Supra"
     
  17. Jan 1, 2019 at 7:38 PM
    #47
    Darkness

    Darkness [OP] New Member

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    Would an all Toyota-built car be more of a "Supra" than a Z4 with a hard top? Yes, it would. An inline 6 built by BMW doesn't make it more of a "Supra" just because the type of motor is more traditionally correct.

    If Toyota put a diesel in a Tundra it would still be a Tundra, unless the motor and chassis were built by Dodge, then it would be a Ram.
     
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  18. Jan 1, 2019 at 8:51 PM
    #48
    ryanwgregg

    ryanwgregg New Member

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    [​IMG]

    1997 Toyota Supra Twin Turbo Window Sticker - $40,372

    [​IMG]

    The 86 doesn't come close to the styling, handling (.95g for the Supra, .89g for the 86), or power that the Supra had (and still does) back in 1993.5. It was surpassing that of the best "sport cars" at the time from a 0-60 (4.6s in 1993), braking performance (the 70-0 braking of the MKIV Supra wasn't beat until the Porsche Carrera GT was released and tested), and MPG. I once drove a bone stock 1997 Supra Turbo 6spd back from LA to Dallas. With an average speed of 100mph (thank you Valentine 1), I got 28MPG. This was a car that had over 70,000 miles on the clock and hadn't yet had a proper tune up.

    On the pricing side, so are you saying that the BMW that shares this powertrain is overpriced? The Lexus SC300 was nearly $50K WITHOUT a twin turbo 2JZ-GTE under the hood, it has the naturally aspirated 2JZ-GE under the hood, shared with the NA MKIV Supra. I've owned two SC300s and three Supras (two NA and one TT) and without a doubt, they were all better cars than the 86, FR-S, BR-Z, etc. The really crappy H4 in those are known to have issues with headgaskets.

    This Supra is missing one VERY important development partner: Yamaha. It all started with the 2000GT and they helped develop the 2JZ as well as the 1LR-GUE in the LFA. All three of these cars are Japanese Sport Car folklore.
     
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  19. Jan 1, 2019 at 8:52 PM
    #49
    ryanwgregg

    ryanwgregg New Member

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    If this is true, then it is NOT a Supra, it is a Toyota 86 with a Supra badge slapped on it. It will be a Toyota, just not a Supra.
     
  20. Jan 1, 2019 at 8:58 PM
    #50
    ryanwgregg

    ryanwgregg New Member

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    The Inline 6 has been a staple of the Celica-Supra and Supra lineup since the inception of the Supra namesake. If it doesn't have an Inline 6, it isn't a Supra, in any way, shape, or form except the model name.

    This is supremely false. There isn't a single car in the Lexus lineup that comes close to what a Supra is about or "like".

    First Inline 6 that Toyota and Yamaha worked together on, was in the 2000GT. The 2M 2.3L and the 3M 2.0L Inline 6s.

    The MKIV Supra achieved .96g on the Skid Pad way back in 1993...the later models of the FR-S/BRZ could only muster .86g, even with better tires than 25/26 years ago.

    The LFA was an "on paper concept" starting in the early 2000s. They even ran the 1LR-GUE in a MKIV Supra over in Tokyo for well over 100,000 miles before settling on the final design. It had nearly 10 years of development and at one point was completely revised in order to have a full carbon fiber passenger compartment and body panels. It has been reported that the total development cost for the LFA was close to $500,000,000. I have a source within Toyota who was one of the North American Sales Reps for the LFA.

    The crazy part about the MKIV Supra, is that higher mileage (70,000 miles plus) 6spd cars are going for almost what they were new off the show room floor.

    The V160/V161 will always be in Transmission Folklore. If I'm not mistaken, the V160 has a 7 sec pass and a 249+MPH Texas Mile pass on its resume.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
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  21. Jan 1, 2019 at 10:14 PM
    #51
    Darkness

    Darkness [OP] New Member

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    Within the context of the conversation of development costs there is enough likeness, granted we are comparing cars with a 20 year technology gap. The RC and LC are practically modern descendants of the Supra, minus the turbo inline 6.

    In any case, I have always loved the Supra and disliked the Z4. Maybe that makes this extra bitter for me.
     
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  22. Jan 1, 2019 at 10:44 PM
    #52
    Donkeypunch

    Donkeypunch New Member

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    Yamaha had hand in designing the head and intake of the 2JZ and many other parts and Zeee Germans for the driveline
     
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  23. Jan 1, 2019 at 10:50 PM
    #53
    Donkeypunch

    Donkeypunch New Member

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    The Supra falls in to the same category as the GTR, RX7, Acura NSX and Mitsubishi VR4. The hopes are that the new Supra would rival the R35 GTR again but now that more like a fantasy. I hope it doesn't flop like the RX8 did and THe new NSX still has something less to be desired. It should be priced and compare to the GTR but not a close to super-car like the new NSX.
     
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  24. Jan 2, 2019 at 4:28 AM
    #54
    ninjajay

    ninjajay Posting from the toilet

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    The new NSX is weird. It's very well reviewed, but seems to be very weak in sales. Actually, that's kind of like the old NSX when it was still in production...
     
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  25. Jan 2, 2019 at 11:58 AM
    #55
    Darkness

    Darkness [OP] New Member

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    I still like the old NSX, my brother has owned 2 and the one he kept runs a turbo and scared the hell out of me. Values have gone way up on those cars, can't find them in the low 20k range anymore.
     
  26. Jan 2, 2019 at 2:29 PM
    #56
    mtTundra

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    If I didn't have to tow the camper on the regular, the tundra could've ended up on the chopping block for the new supra.
    Manual trans, turbo inline 6, targa? (please let it happen).
    unfortunately i'll need to wait until Alexis is paid off before I add another Toyota to the herd.
     

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