Blown engine

Have they shared the root cause?

 

Root was the crankshaft bearing, and the entire engine is being replaced along with anything else that the oil goes through.

 

Not to jack the thread but having read through peeps suggestions about running 91/93 in our trucks. Always been skeptical of running anything but regular, but after two tanks im sold on it lol im guess im lucky im in a state where gas isnt $5 a gallon anymore.

 

This isnt your grandpa's V8. Octane def makes a difference on these turbo motors.

 

wasn't necessarily disagreed on that, i just am a stubborn cheapass, but a few more bucks per tank is worth it for sure.

 

Do they call for engine removal to replace the intermediate steering shaft? I see no way how the lower bolt can be accessed. Hard to judge without seeing the whole picture with the engine in the bay, though.

 

Has anyone made the switch to 5w30 yet? Alot of talk about it (myself included) but anyone pulled the trigger yet?

 

Well for one, folks from Toyota may read these forums.
If they think that you are using the wrong oil that'll void a warranty saving 20-30k for a new motor... well that could be of interest to them.

That being said, just about every motor prior would have a manual that states many MANY types of oil can be used depending on duty and climate.
This trucks manual says to use only 0w20 Use 5w20 and replace it soon with 0w20.

Sort of odd when you factor in the SAME motor used overseas uses from 0w20 to 10w30 depending on the climate.
Why do we have limits? Well some people say on here... its for CAFE standards (fuel economy)

For me while under warranty i'd recommend what they want. Just make sure to keep receipts for the oil filters and oil along with a mileage and date.
When its past time or miles, use whatever you like. 5w30 is well rounded oil used on many motors old and recent.

Those twins are going to cook that oil. Research a bit and find that turbos generally like a larger second number.
30-40 would offer added protection from the heat... so would brand too. Lets face it not all oils are the same and that could factor in to lubrication issues.

Then we also have a little blowby. small amounts of fuel mixing with oil... over 5k or 10k miles I would love to know if it would lower the oils rated type / range significantly.

 

Exactly... Few talk the talk, but Noone walk the walk

 

Higher octane fuels definitely makes a difference, while not earth shaking, it does release a little more low to midrange torque. Most notably it reduces ( not eliminates) the bog you feel when accelerating from a "rolling" stop or going around a corner and accelerating up an incline where the transmission doesn't downshift to 1st gear. (Part of the hesitation concerns on some of these forums). Yes, as a lot of people claim "it's tuned for 87 octane so no benefits beyond that". I personally disagree as yes it's tuned to tolerate and survive on 87 as once it's released to the masses, a fair majority are going to run the "cheap gas" on a "every day" vehicle that generally makes sub 20 MPGs or so. I believe based on engine knock sensor feedback there are more aggressive ignition timing and boost mappings available beyond 87 octane fuel usage.

Now does the extra cost of higher octane fuels out weight the benefits? Maybe, maybe not. It's ultimately up to the drivers.

 

Mine looked the same when I changed it at 1K miles. Not to sidetrack the thread, but I’ve wondered if the oil is partially to blame in the V35 failures. Fuel dilution, too thin, 10K interval too high, etc.

 

World's smallest oil filter too....lol....my 1983 Supra filter is twice the size. AZ has a unique problem, we have several months of 110+ weather. Technically 0w20 isn't supposed to be used in OAT of 104 degrees or more. Of course they get away with it by saying the average historical temps in PHX and LAS are less than 104. But in a bad summer you can get 30+ days of 110 or more with daily lows of 98 99 at 0400. Then if you have a hybrid you have to consider the stop start issue....

https://www.eneos.us/blog/0w-oil-in-warm-climates/#:~:text=0W-20, for example,,, Phoenix, and Las Vegas.

The balance is maybe more frequent changes. I dunno. Would be nice to hear from the Toyota engineers on what we as owners can do to prevent spalled/spun/whatever bearings if there is anything?

 

A bad bearing would be the last of my issues.

 

None of the Blackstone analysis I've seen show a problem.

 

send it in for oil testing if your worried about those things, lab reports are much better than speculation

 

I’m waiting on my report. I’ll share if anything interesting

 

@alex17117 I’ve seen a good percentage showing excess fuel.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/2023-tundra-oil-change-interval.125222/page-9#post-3435269

 

It really depends on how much toyota leaves in the tunes to advance timing. And whether they account for that timing in their torque calculations. Ford does. If you run more timing the Ford PCM's will report higher torque values and in some cases will reduce boost to try and limit torque to the desired value.

But the 3.5L Ecoboosts can pickup 30-40 whp running 93 octane because they allow the higher octane to be taken advantage of in the stock tuning. Several times when I would tow with my F150, I would use Boostane to bump 91 to 96 octane and there was a noticeable difference in the amount of timing it would run, but it still was not maxed out. I figured that to get my stock 3.5 EB to actually max out timing, I needed to run 98 octane.

So if there is not a major advantage to running higher octane fuel in the Tundra, its purely a tuning restriction. They simply are not allowing the engine to take advantage of the higher octane and are capping the torque either by reducing boost, or by stopping timing advance very early.

 

Did they show what the viscosity was?

Dirt in the oil is a filtering issue and its pretty well shown that the Toyota OEM filters a very mediocre at filtering. That combined with the very thin 0W-20 oil being diluted with fuel I think is pushing these engines.

These GTDI applications scream for higher viscosity. Not because the 0W-20 wont necessarily protect it fresh, but because the oil is being thinned out over time, and the longer the oil change interval, the worse it gets, especially if you dont work the truck hard. I think that Toyota should be specing 30 weight oil under the assumption that most people are not towing or working the engine hard regularly.

I swear that the Ecoboost motors that had issues early on were a result of people who were not using their trucks as trucks. People were not getting their oil hot enough and not burning off the fuel. That plus the relatively long OCI's was combining to cause the oil to not protect the timing chains.

 

Start stop is not actually an issue. There is testing that shows that start stop actually leads to less thinning of the oil by fuel. Idling at very low load is exactly when the fuel is getting past the rings and into the oil.

Oil is not draining off of the protected surfaces within the 30 seconds that the engine is off, and I bet when its 120* in Phoenix, the truck rarely shuts off because the AC is running as hard as it can.

 

That is what I am doing. I'm changing the oil every 3000 miles. Let the filter go the 10,000 and just suck all the oil out with an oil evacuator at 3K with 0/20 full synthetic and it is barely discolored. If my main bearing goes it will not be because of oil. I love the truck and pray that I do not have the failed main bearing issue. I feel terrible for anyone who has had this happen to them.

From some of the pics it looks like they don't have to take the truck off the frame to get the engine out. I thought they did.

You know the Car care Nut just came out with the video that said that this was cause by a machining issue and that the 24's are safe. I have a 23 which didn't make me feel to good. I just plopped down $2600 for the 125K platinum extended warranty.

Here is to praying that our engines don't blow the main bearing............all of us 22 and 23 Tunrdra owners are in the same boat. Kid

 

So barely a 20 weight

 

If our manual read like the LC and not so emphatic about 0w-20 and the risk of warranty issues I would have done it first oil change...

Different thought on failure- so if failures are happening generally on longer highway drives and the oil thins from gas contamination - could the oil pump be loosing pressure / not pumping the super thin, hot oil properly?

Or not proper pressure to get it to the bearings?

 

That Oil looks like what came out of a 8 year old 4 stroke outboard that I recently changed the oil on. This owner never changed the Oil since new. Seasonal summer use, not alot of hours, but still.

They (Toyota) seemed to spend a lot of time and $$$ on the cooling aspect of the engine. Turbos have their own intercooler and heat exchangers plus electric fan. However, when it comes to lubrication, well, the turbos use the same oil as the engine.

2 quarts (correct me if I am wrong) of that black stuff is left in the engine at every oil change. With the oil cooking in those turbo lines it is a very dirty harsh environment. I am a little anal about oil. I have a car that is air and oil cooled no Radiator.

I realize most of you guys don't give a shit, you do Oil changes as required and you will be selling or handing back the Tundra before warranty expires. But..it makes me wonder how so much “Bad Oil” gets left in the engine/turbos in a modern day design from Toyota? Is this because they took an existing engine design and modified it for the new Tundra, instead of coming up with a whole new design for a full size truck? I would think with the importance of lubrication being right up there with cooling, there should be multiple drain points at least, to get as much Old Oil out as possible. How hard are Oil drain ports to add ? Are you reading Toyota or do you care?

Maybe the multi billion dollar Toyota investment in the North Carolina Battery plant shows the future, and these vehicles as they exist today are stop gaps. Nothing more than to cash in on some Truckmania.

fwiw
The Dinausaur 5.7 leaves I believe 1 quart of hidden oil (half of the 3.4 liter) - but that engine oil is also not dealing with Turbos.

Also if anyone is spending close to $3000 for an extended warranty on a Toyota, what advantage does having a Toyota bring over the Big 3 ?

 

So this is interesting to me. Ford uses 5w-30 in the EcoBoost and if you start going down the oil rabbit hole, some people recommend specific manufacturers of oil because they don't shear as bad as others. GM's 2.7 turbo also calls for 5w-30.

 

Not trying to be condescending, but almost every engine failure reported here has little or no background or history. Routine driving habits, maintenance histories, oil condition (or if any is even left in the engine). Mainly is there specific driving patterns or habits that may contribute to excessive fuel dilution or soot loading of the oil that other manufacturers have been been plagued with on various direct injected engines?. Especially considering the boosted V35A higher than usual torque per liter output than than a lot of engine designs. Typically all we get here is photos of truck being loaded on a roll back wrecker, subsequent pics of truck parts scattered about a shop bay along with pissed off owner commentary. There's never any plausible: Condition, Cause, Remedy, Confirmation of the repair. Basically just pissing back and forth between owner and a uninformed/misinformed clueless service advisor. Then a couple dozen haters on the forums "SEE... I told you so...."

 

Check out the spreadsheet that has been compiled - some good data points in there - not every aspect but a start

 

It seems that info isn’t included because there is generally nothing to report. Truck driving unloaded on highway gets the error message, makes bearing-eating noises, and a new engine is needed. That seems to be the how the reports go. And of course the owner is understandably furious.

I highly doubt any owners are to blame for their spun bearings due to driving style or maintenance schedule. The fact Toyota says 0w20 @ 10k mile OCI does not exactly inspire confidence.

The oil report above shows a flashpoint 50°F too low and fuel in the oil too high by 25%.

For me—someone who wants 300k miles out of my truck minimum—those numbers are the opposite of not significant.

 

The way I witness most people's driving habits I am surprised any motor lasts to 50k.

I remember 5 years ago auto theft gangs were stealing new trucks left and right in my area. The ones that were caught broke down. 10-15 miles at the red line and top speed were tough duty. Mostly GMs and Nissan stolen due to proximity to the interstate. The Nissan V8s blew consistently.

How you drive matters a whole lot