Bilstein 5100 Lowest vs Middle Setting Ride Difference?

Yes, thats probably a safe bet - I have run both a .25 and a .5 height shim on middle setting and it pretty really good with either height shim.

I still feel the ride can be improved so I may experiment some more - but for most people 5100's on middle notch should be a decent improvement over stock, especially off-road.

 

The spring has more preload (compressed more) on the top setting.

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That's what I have been trying to tell you all this whole time. lol

I'm much more happy with my 6112s on the top setting than the 5100s on the top setting.

 

Well, the theory makes sense that there shouldn't be any preload - but something is different on that damn top setting...

Good news is I have been running this middle setting with .25 shim and the ride is actually getting to be much softer now that I have more miles on them - I guess these 5100's must have a break in period? Maybe its all in my head, but I actually really like the 5100's at this point and don't think I will bother upgrading to 6112's - although I fully agree with you R1 that if you have the money buy the 6112's as they sound even better.

 

Here's my take on this. The 5100 shock fully extended is a fixed length. Changing the clip position does not change the length of the shock. The OEM coil spring is also a fixed length too. You have to use a spring compressor to install the coil on the shock in order to secure the top hat no matter what location the clip is in. With the truck on jack stands, the suspension droop will be exactly the same no matter what position the clip is in.

If you want to keep the ride quality/spring rate exactly the same as position 1 while lifting the truck with 5100s, you have to add spacers/shims (on top of the top hat). By moving the clip up, you're preloading the spring with "weight" so it doesn't sag as much which results in a harsher ride. The harshness comes mostly from the rebound of the spring wanting to return to it's natural length. If the 5100s offered the ability to dial in more rebound dampening, you could get some ride quality back.... and that's where the more advanced Fox/King/ADS/Icons come into play.

 

When the weight of the truck is on the 5100 then it is not actually a "fixed length" - its height will vary depending on the perch setting, which will change the length of the shock - again with the weight of the truck on it.

The perch adjustment is not preloading anything - its simply making the shock taller so the truck sits higher, that is how the lift is achieved.

 

The extended length of an assembled 5100 at any perch setting is exactly the same. The top hat and retaining nut has to preload the coil a little bit even at the lowest setting, otherwise the coil would fall off the top perch if you went off a jump and allowed the suspension to go full droop (not completely out because the rod will contain it, but bad things will happen). Take a look at the right side of the diagram posted earlier that shows the unloaded length. The lengths are exactly the same. Moving the clip up, preloads the spring so the shock doesn't sag as far when the weight of the truck is applied.

Another way to look at it is a spring will compress X inches to support X weight. So if a spring sags/compresses 4" to support 1000 pounds, you can preload the spring 2" with the perch and then it'll only sag 2" resulting in a higher ride height.

 

Once the weight of the truck is on the coilover - the preload is gone. The notch settings are changing the actual length of the coilover - that is what lifts the truck.

No, thats not how it works, go back and re-read this thread.

 

A lot of bad information in this thread...

 

I have 5100's on the top setting and was not happy with the ride. It was harsh and could feel every little break in the pavement and every little undulation in the road surface.
I took the front sway bar off last night from a suggestion from another thread here and now it rides like stock again. I do get the slightest bit of body roll and I will take that vs a harsh ride any day. It may not be for most of you guys but it works for my ride.
Basically the sway bar, when taking bumps etc., puts preload on the opposite side spring which stiffens the ride significantly.
Again, there will be haters of why its there, safety, etc., but I don't plan on taking curves or onramps at 70 mph either.

 

I just joined this forum to ask research this very issue. At first I was on the side of "the higher the 5100 clip setting the more compressed the coil", but after some thought and then confirmation here, I have flip-flopped to "the coil isn't any more compressed than it was when it rolled off the production floor" side.

BUT...

I too have a 1 gen tundra with 5100's on the top clip setting. (I bought it this way and have slowly been discovering the mods and their effects.) Let me say that the top clip is very rough, especially on the rebound. It handles whoopy hills and such just fine, but when I hit the smallest change in the asphalt (transition from dirt to asphalt - 1" lip) or wash-boarding along a dirt road, it feels like I hit a row of cinder blocks.

IMO I think the highest clip setting is rough/stiffer, because it changes the a-arm angle.

example: IF the a-arms were perpendicular to the wheel (parallel to the ground) when the truck was at rest, there would only be resistance/support from the coil during a sudden change in elevation. BUT if the the a-arms were at a 45 degree angle (sloping down towards the wheel), some of the impact energy would be transitioned into the a-arms and into the frame; resulting in a "stiffer" ride. The bump would be felt more, because of the energy being transferred through the frame.

I could be dead wrong, and would love to know what your thoughts are. I am here to learn and get me truck to a happier/smoother place.


I am currently on a quest to return it to stock, because I'd rather have it ride nice than have a "large" tire. If there's a way to fix the ride without dropping tons of money, I'm all ears.

Other than a rough ride, look how close that upper arm is to the tire.

 

Welcome Leonard.
I recently just upgraded to a '17 but had an '04 since new. I put the 5100's on that a few years ago and was very happy with the ride quality. I would suggest trying to just take your end link off the front sway bar and try it. If it doesn't change anything, no harm no foul.
As far as your tire to upper A arm, it's close and if it's too close for comfort for you, pick up some 1" wheel spacers. You should have no rub issue.

 

I forgot to mention that I have extended sway bar links, but maybe completely removing them would help soften it up.

 

First I don't notice a ton of difference between middle and top notch - but I do notice enough difference that I prefer the middle notch; but its not like your ride will be that much different. My best guess is that the shock is compressing down from a different starting point on the shaft on each notch setting - so maybe it doesn't dampen as well when over-extended on that top notch; this is just a total guess though. I have thought about the geometry causing it - but when I run spacers for the same lift then the ride seems better than moving the notch the same amount.

Your lucky with a first gen as your 5100 actually has a 0" setting - if I were you I'd buy some new Eibach 2" lift coils and try those on the 0"/stock notch - add a shim/spacer if you want more. With a truck that old maybe the coils themselves are more of an issue or not matching well with the 5100.

 

Thanks for the link! Would I need extensions for anything?

I found an old service receipt that said they couldn't complete the alignment due to everything being maxxed out. To me that sound like the tie rods.

 

I agree that this is a factor in the ride difference.

 

Care to point out why you think this way? Add something constructive!

 

First, using those coils is kind of experimental - so do so at your own risk, but from what I have heard the 5100/Eibach lift coil combination is very popular with Tacoma guys as their 5100's also have that 0" lift notch setting - so its kind of perfect for use with a "lift" coil. You're only going to get a 2" lift roughly from the coil itself when using the 0" bottom notch setting - so I think you would end up with less of a lift than you have now right? That may help your alignment problems too by lowering it a bit. I'm not an alignment expert, but most guys seem to have issues getting an alignment when they get closer to the 3" lift mark as you may be now.

 

Thanks, rustytoys.
I am bouncing back and forth between experimenting with the eibach coils and just going back to stock. I feel like my truck is at that awkward height where something different needs to happen asap. Kind of like a short haircut has that fuzzy chicken stage before it progresses into something manageable.
If money wasn't an issue, I'd have it on 35s or 37s. I totally think the closer a trucks height and length approach the golden ratio, the better it looks.
BUT money is an issue. I can convert it back to stock ride height very cheaply, while lifting will possibly point me down the road of nickel and diming me to death.

 

The shock length (eye to eye) does not change with the different clip positions. The lift is created by preloading the spring (by moving the clip up). The spring is preloaded making the front of the truck higher, and if using the OEM spring, it will have a stiffer ride. The amount of coils on an OEM spring are made for use with the OEM shock, that's why using a different spring with a different spring rate will have a smoother ride than a compressed (pre-loaded) OEM spring.