Bilstein 5100 Lowest vs Middle Setting Ride Difference?

Yes it's starting to click now. The spacer thing is interesting - basically a top plate spacer (above coil assembly) like I have is really doing the same exact thing the 5100 is according to xjuices diagram, so its kind of a zero sum game.

 

So if this is correct wouldn't that make the ride stiffer because Bilstiens are digressive shocks and you are closer to the beginning of the stroke the higher you lift?

 

If you can actually feel that difference then yes, if that's how digressive shocks worked, but I don't think that's the case. I am anyways not that sensitive to distinguish between the top and bottom stroke of my shock going down the road at 70 mph,(again, if that's how it worked).
I have a friend who says he can feel the difference in power going from 87 octane to 89. He once had a half tank of 87 and then filled up with 89. As soon as he took off he told me "feel the difference". I am sure there were at least a mile worth of clean 87 still in the fuel line before the first 50/50 mix of 87 and 89 even get close to the engine, but he immediately felt the difference. It would be the same if digressive shocks worked that way (different stiffness at different places along the stroke).
However, my understanding is that the difference between digressive and progressive shocks is the way it is valved - one takes slow bumps better and the other fast bumps, basically. Or short strokes vs long strokes for that matter, since bigger bumps will require faster, longer strokes. It is the speed at which it moves that determines how stiff it is, not how far down the shaft the start of the movement is. (This discussion about strokes and stiffness makes me uncomfortable )

 

Ah, yes... of course. Velocity not position - that's what work brain frying you will do

 

So does it matter what setting you have the shock for how the ride will feel?

 

Technically no, but opinions will differ.

 

I'm going to jack mine up to top setting in the next week - I'll let you know.

 

It sure does. The fact is the higher you go, the more the spring is compressed, preloaded. The stiffer it will be.

 

Not accurate. preload is a myth. The spring is preloaded before the assembly is put in the truck, but once you install it in the truck, the weight of the truck is what compress the spring. The weight is always the same, no matter what the setting is, so preload is irrelevant.

 

See post #27 above. someone else drew up a picture that I wanted to post. It explains it visually.

 

Preload is not irrelevant. Anytime you compress a spring before any weight is added to it, you are "preloading it" with more tension. Each spring has a certain amount of coils and they are manufactured this way to specs for whatever application it's for. Anytime you preload the spring, it will compress the coils of the spring and make it stiffer. The only way to combat this is to change the spring to a different spring rate hence the 6112s that come with a different spring.

To answer @Iowa12tundra's question, it will ride stiffer. I had the red 4600s on my Sport, then went to 5100s on the middle setting with stock tires, then on the highest setting with stock tires, each time I raised the front, it got stiffer. The 6112s on the lowest setting will be a lot more plush that using them on the highest setting.

 

Thanks for the feed back. I might just go middle setting with a shim on the drivers side to play it safe along with not dealing with the uca issue.

 

https://accutuneoffroad.com/articles/spring-preload-matters/

 

If you are not trying to clear bigger tires, I would go this route.

 

I have a set of used 295 70 cooper STT pro tires that I bought with 3rd gen trd rims. I also have 1.25 spacers. Hopefully I can fit the tires with some trim work.

 

There may be a slight flaw in this theory that preload does not matter; yes 90% of the time with weight on the coilover it wouldn't - but what about when you go over a sharp hill or take a sharp corner and your suspension fully extends down and mimics the "no vehicle weight" side of this diagram - at that point you are "landing" on a preloaded spring when using top setting - a low setting shock would have a non-preloaded spring to cushion the weight of the truck coming off the hill. So if the spring is still perch preloaded 300-pounds when fully extended, then thats possibly 300 pounds the truck has to overcome before dampening - or at least if that is incorrect and the spring rate would be the same then it would at the very least be impacting with much less spring travel - in which you can imagine it could possibly feel "stiff" to people. Would be interesting to hear opinions on this.

 

What type of spacers give 1.25" lift? The maximum you can go with the stock studs on the top hat is a 1/2" height spacer which provides around 3/4" lift.

 

The spacer is for the rims.

 

Okay gotcha, yeah I feel like your going to rub pretty good - your only talking about running a 1.5" lift with 34's which are over 11 wide - if it were my truck I would aim for 2.25"+ which could be achieved on the middle perch setting by running a 1/2" height top plate spacer for 3/4" of lift like Toytec or Coach Builder sells (Coach Builder advertises theirs as a 1" lift, but that seems a bit generous).

 

I am certainly not going to argue about it. Read your article again. It affects the travel, not how stiff the ride is. On a straight road there will be no difference.
I can explain it to you in more detail. I can show you calcs and real data. But I am not interested in arguing with anyone.

 

I've seen people on here with very little lift fit 295 70 18's with some trim work. Even 285 75's with no trim work with GEOLANDAR A/T G015.
For the argument with stiffness at certain levels it seems like the conses for that is more lift more preload...that's what she said. Lol

 

Well my buddy used to run 44's on his Duramax with only an 8" lift - so you can do anything if your willing to trim! Keep in mind that those people running 34's with an inch lift or what not are likely not using wheel spacers - those 1.25 spacers will make the rubbing even worse.

 

That's it.... no lift with 37's

 

I moved my 5100's up from the middle to top notch today - drove it about five miles and really don't notice any difference at all - or if there is a difference it is very minor and nothing like how the ride firmed up moving from 4600's to 5100's. I am also running Coachbuilder .25" height shims on top of both Coilovers.

 

Did you get your alignment adjusted? Do you have your orginal uca's?

 

Yes original control arms, Tundra was aligned when I installed the 5100's at middle notch - they changed basically nothing as everything was still fine, I'll probably take it by again in the next few months as I want to buy new tires. It drives great, have not felt any noticeable change with any of the lift points as far as alignment - has always run straight, cornered good, etc.

 

Thanks for your input. I wasn't arguing; just trying to understand your point of view. Do understand that I tried all the levels, it get's stiffer.

 

Anytime you change the lift setting, you should get an alignment. My specs changed when I went from the middle to the top on my 5100s. Then I had to get aftermarket UCAs since the alignment was maxed with the OEM UCAs.

 

Just to add to this; so I was able to drive the Tundra much more extensively this week, go on the freeway, over roadwork etc. and started to really hate the ride on the top notch with .25" shim - it felt very stiff and not in a good way - more like driving a dump truck way. I am willing to accept the logic that preload doesn't exist, but at the same time adding shims up to 1/2" in height while on middle notch (same height as each Bilstein notch) doesn't seem to screw things up like running the top notch does... so I feel like something is going on with the spring at that setting - or shock valving, but in addition perhaps there are geometry issues etc. when pushing a 2.5"+ lift like that.

Today I lowered the 5100's back down to middle notch and am also running a Coachbuilder .25 shim - this gives me exactly 2" of lift - then in the rear I have a 1" block. Drove the truck and it feels totally different, much smoother everywhere and very decent ride now. Again, I have no idea why this is - but that top notch is screwing something up on these trucks in my personal opinion. Again, I understand the theory on preload and logically it makes sense - but in the real world the ride goes to crap...

 

Thanks for your trial an error. Saves me the headache. I'm going with the route of middle setting and shim so I don't run into issues with other things. Do it like a Pro!