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Bed bounce complaint to Toyota

Discussion in 'General Tundra Discussion' started by Tracker, Mar 21, 2016.

  1. Mar 25, 2016 at 6:47 PM
    #61
    jlee

    jlee New Member Vendor

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    Oh one or two.

    I feel my suspension is better then the pro and many can agree @jberry813 with that and I still have bed bounce o. The rough roads maybe just maybe he has not seen the trashed roads that we see.
     
    Black Wolf[QUOTED] likes this.
  2. Mar 25, 2016 at 6:48 PM
    #62
    jlee

    jlee New Member Vendor

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    Oh one or two.
    No lift in the rear but KING 2.5's all the way around leveled in the front.
     
  3. Mar 25, 2016 at 8:01 PM
    #63
    Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Bigfoot Hunter, Sasquatch too, but not Yeti

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    Damn it. I thought I was good about "keeping the down low".
     
    DBL TAP[QUOTED] likes this.
  4. Mar 25, 2016 at 8:57 PM
    #64
    Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Bigfoot Hunter, Sasquatch too, but not Yeti

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    Well... You have to start with this: [​IMG]a widely used general purpose Dytran 5 to 10,000 Hz (±5%), 10 mV/ per g sensitivity accelerometer. And this: [​IMG]Dytran 4110C current source. And this: [​IMG]HP/Agilent/Keysight 3458A, 8 1/2 digit DMM option 002. Still made, 20 year old design, but constantly upgraded, still the best reference DMM on the planet. Prove me wrong. I dare anybody. (not even Keithley's new DMM) Next... 34972A datalogger: [​IMG]or Fluke Hydra :[​IMG]This wouldn't hurt to have available. The Stanford Research SR770 Dynamic Signal Analyzer.[​IMG] It just so happens we got in an SR760 in for calibration which I have to do Monday. This is another one of the standards required to verify in combo with 3458A DMM :[​IMG]a Fluke 5720A reference source with wide band option. 3458A/5720A combo would cost you around $60K. We have four 3458A's and three 5700A series multifunction calibrators in our Denver lab. These units are required to verify the SR770 before any testing can be done. I would also verify the Dytran 3030B5 against our NIST/NAVLAP accredited "Standard" accelerometer. Bottom line. I need a test Tundra for "before" data as in no CB shackles and "after" data with CB shackles. I can arrange this .

    #1.. Test with non "Pro" stock set up for a control at an agreed stretch on the new I-225 cement "bed bounce area" between Mississippi and Iliff. (don't worry you can drive up 65 mph legally, well above known "bed bounce" speeds.

    #2.. Add CB shackles with supplied bushings (pointless to do the test with "just" shackles and another with "no" bushings. (Do you realize how much this test would cost if you actually had to pay for it out of your own pocket??)

    #3..There are a lot of variables to consider when you start adding certain types of aftermarket leafs, which goes way beyond what we started with........."Do shackles, CB's for example, help with the dreaded "bed bounce". Lets not get too carried away...................

    #4.. I can arrange this. I can even get an expert who does this for a living to come on board. (Yes he is a nerd like me).

    #5.. CO volunteer Tundra????

    #6..No junk science................
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016
  5. Mar 25, 2016 at 9:28 PM
    #65
    TruckyTruck

    TruckyTruck Dumbest Username

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    Yeah with Kings I'm sure you do. I've still got the stock rear shocks and no more bounce. So I think the poly bushings make all the difference with this problem.

    You may have already figured it out, but I've got 3.25 inches in the front and +3 shackles in the rear. They probably have me and inch and a half lift. So if you were going to keep your stance the same, probably the +1 will be your best bet. I'm sure coachbuilder will let you know what will work best though.
     
  6. Mar 25, 2016 at 9:34 PM
    #66
    Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Bigfoot Hunter, Sasquatch too, but not Yeti

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    If bushings were such a simple fix there would be no need for this thread. This is a major concern on all Tundra forums. Not buying it. No offense. If the bushings truly help then why has no one else figured it out??
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016
  7. Mar 25, 2016 at 9:41 PM
    #67
    TruckyTruck

    TruckyTruck Dumbest Username

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    A lot of simple things in life are overcomplicated... :goingcrazy:
     
  8. Mar 25, 2016 at 10:14 PM
    #68
    Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Bigfoot Hunter, Sasquatch too, but not Yeti

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    One thing to consider is that since 2007 there have been at least 700,000 Tundras built. The vast majority of those Tundra owners don't do squat with their trucks. We need more of them here by the way. They want to know what is a better tire than the POS tires they get. They want to know ways of getting better mpg with a 5.7L????, better filtration, etc. Most do not have Kings, Fox, etc, and do not want them, let alone afford them. Don't need them. What all these owners have in common is one thing...they own a Tundra. They all have the bed bounce issue. You would think Toyota would have done a simple bushing "fix" to make them all happy. A simple TSB. Two bushings. Cheap fix. Has not been done yet, not even with the "3rd" gens. Like you stated, maybe overcomplicated?? Example, My friend/co-worker A***n has a 2007 DC 8footer bed. He will never modify his truck. He has complained about bed bounce too, even with the 8 ft bed. It's a physics "thing". If bushings could truly "fix" his problem, then lets see a guarantee that this would work. Name one supplier of bushings that would guarantee the bed bounce fix. Crickets........................................
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016
  9. Mar 25, 2016 at 10:46 PM
    #69
    Tracker

    Tracker [OP] New Member

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    wow I really wish you all chimed in like this a few days ago. This is the input I was looking for. Now I'm stuck with going to the dealer to put up a fight and wait on the shackles which are inbound by the way. I am desperate and have a feeling the dealer will tell me to pound sand.
     
  10. Mar 25, 2016 at 11:33 PM
    #70
    Coachbuilder1

    Coachbuilder1 Industry Leader Vendor

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    2007 SR5 5.7 Katzkin, LED lighting through out, LED door handles, Color Matched handles & grill surround, CST 3.5" Spindles OME 614 Full Suspension, Coachbuilder +3" Shackles by Ekstrom Design, BHLM,35"/12.5"/20 Nitto Trail Grapplers,BMF SOTA death metal black finish 20"x10" -19 offset.
    Thanks for the call today Dbl Tap, I'd be happy to get in on this :thumbsup:

    The Tundra is very well know for its bed bounce and lack of overall rigidity in the rear suspension, We've all seen and read reasons why this happens and by the end of the day feel like that poor baby in the back seat of the youtube video.:help:

    I drive the same truck you guys do and felt the restricted movement in the rear suspension from day one. After designing our first version of the Coachbuilder shackle I was blown away at the difference in ride quality. Honestly I only wanted to pick the rear of my truck up a touch and would not be installing a block. At this time I had only owned the truck for a few months and built suspension parts for other private builders and race teams. The Tundra uses a very short factory set of shackles. 4" from bolt center to bolt center, our trucks are also very unevenly distributed in weight. ** Sitting each corner on a scale.. from the center of the front seats forward the tundra holds over 65% of its weight ** Being a car builder and knowing how important it is to place weight as evenly as possible and where its going to help handling and overall strength in the vehicle this truck was extremely off. The 2.75" rear rake also doesn't help allow the truck to disperse engery as its drive down the road. It definitely helps improve mpg's and allows added height for towing applications but destroys ride quality by holding the weight uneven. The rear portion of the tundras frame could use additional boxing to add rigidity but we're still left with the tapered frame design... We have a tapered rear frame with a solid axle trying to pivot inline with the independent front suspension. The tundra also uses fixed rubber bushings in all pivots other than the upper frame rails. The poly bushings installed from the factory in the upper frame rails are a great design and work just as they should. Smooth pivot allowing the top portion of the shackles to cycle without resistance. The front leaf spring bushings are a fixed rubber design and use a smooth reinforced center sleeve. There is no pivot at the front portion of the leaf pack and works great.. As I mentioned earlier the factory shackles are very short and use a fixed rubber bushing in the rear leaf spring eyelets. The pivot angle between the frame and shackle is incorrect in my opinion and needs a longer stroke in order the cycle completely. The short design holds the energy trapped and creates almost a rubber band effect, This results in a very uneven and bouncy feel in the rear suspension. Living in Utah we also have concrete highways with the dreaded expansion joints forcing the suspension to "skim" over the road and not fully cycle. Once the pivot angle was corrected we were then able to address the fixed rubber bushings in the rear eyelets. The shackles were allowed to freely pivot on the top side "frame rails" but were completely locked up on the lower portion due to the knurled teeth on the outside edge of the bushing. We tested a few different compounds and finally decided on black poly matching the upper frame rail design but added graphite to the compound in order self lubricate as the bushings cycle. The shackles and new poly bushings were working better than expected but still wanted to remove any additional resistance if possible. We machined a small taper in the bushing to decrease surface to surface contact while still allowing greater support than the factory rubber bushings.

    End Result is a much Stronger and Smooth Rear Suspension, eliminating any side to side rear flex that the factory shackles allow and gaining additional height as needed.
    We build Coachbuilder Shackles in 3 sizes. +1"s = .625" of total lift. +2"s = 1.25" of total lift and +3"s = 1.75" of total lift.


    Hope this helps explain what we've been working on for the past 5-6 years and are proud to share with our Tundra Community.

    *** matluth, Your Coachbuilder Shackles and Poly Bushings are ready for testing :D

    David
    Ekstrom Design llc.
    801..635..4872



    Coachbuildershackles.jpg
    Ekstrom_Design_Poly_bushing.jpg
     
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  11. Mar 26, 2016 at 12:01 AM
    #71
    Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Bigfoot Hunter, Sasquatch too, but not Yeti

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    Thanks for that write up. I was skeptical at first from some of the comments here. It' my nature considering my line of work. Your explanation of the factory bushing setup and what you have accomplished is commendable. I could use some more lift in the rear. The plus+1's/.625" would be perfect for me. With my OME setup, I still get some bed bounce even with my topper, but not near as bad, but bad enough. Can you PM me with the cost +shipping to Aurora,CO? I'll be more than happy to test them out. The stock shackles look very lame compared to your shackles. I can actually do some decent tests. Not just bed bounce, but overall performance, on the street and off road. It's impossible right now to go where I 4X4. Too much snow. That will give me some time to install and mess around with the bed bounce issue. I do have access to the required test equipment to actually record some before and after data. My suspension isn't stock. There is an AAL and the OME setup I got from ToyTec. Don't think that will make much of a difference compared to the stock setup. My grand kids complain enough when riding in my truck that something needs to be done.
     
  12. Mar 26, 2016 at 12:46 AM
    #72
    Tracker

    Tracker [OP] New Member

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    I do feel better after reading your right up. I will also test this out on my rig and report back with the results as soon as they arrive.
     
  13. Mar 26, 2016 at 2:57 PM
    #73
    TruckyTruck

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    d1ff6dc3b99b56bfc9037df1862f1a0c49d4c5c788b4614c329d80cb7f18dfb8.jpg
     
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  14. Mar 26, 2016 at 3:28 PM
    #74
    DBL TAP

    DBL TAP Light 'em up

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    Thank you to Coachbuilder for the informative technical write up. I will be purchasing CB shackles & bushings for my PRO because I NOW have a slight amount of noticeable bed bounce.
    Two days ago I installed a TRD rear sway bar, and today I drove on a concrete freeway (Hwy 52 east bound). Without the sway bar, on this same section of fwy, there was no noticeable bb into the cab, but today there was. Doesn't surprise me because of the link now connecting the frame & bed to the live axle. No big deal though, CB shackles & bushings will help correct the self induced bb. Hate it when you correct one issue (body roll) and create another (bed bounce).
     
  15. Mar 26, 2016 at 3:49 PM
    #75
    rons23

    rons23 Get The Led Out!!!

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    Haven't witnessed this on my 08, the only bed bounce I know of is going on at home, Baaaahaaaa. Seriously though, hope you guys figure it out and fix it :eek:
     
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  16. Mar 26, 2016 at 4:16 PM
    #76
    csuviper

    csuviper Moderator Staff Member

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    Very nice write up! Thank you.
     
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