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Aftermarket Parts - How Do They Impact Max Payload?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Backslider, Jun 10, 2018.

  1. Jun 10, 2018 at 6:31 PM
    #1
    Backslider

    Backslider [OP] Thirsty...

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    I no longer have a Tundra, but there are a lot of really knowledgeable people here and this is kind of a general question.

    I'm curious how gear and aftermarket parts impact payload? Should I subtract literally everything I pack into a vehicle or any parts that I add from the available payload capacity?

    For example, if I have a Tundra with a payload capacity of 1500lbs, but I add an aftermarket front and rear bumper, a bed rack, RTT, 8 gallons of additional fuel in Rotopax, shovel, winch, 30 gallons of water.. All of these things should be subtracted from the available payload capacity, no?

    At this point I barely have room left for passengers other than the driver...

    I realize that suspension can be upgraded, but does this increase the carrying capabilities of the vehicle in any meaningful way, or does it simply improve ride quality to mask the feel of an overweight vehicle?

    I'm about to pull the trigger on a front bumper and winch for my 4runner, but based on my last trip I don't think I have the payload capacity to spare. That all said, I see people doing it ALL THE TIME on FB, forums, Instagram, YouTube.. Are they just ignoring their payload capacities or is there something I should know?

    In the long run I want to get an offroad trailer which will alleviate all of these problems, but dropping $10k right now would probably end in my castration and utter loneliness..

    @ColoradoTJ
    @Spolar

    Sorry to tag you guys, but I've learned a lot from reading some of your posts and hoped you could drop a few wisdom eggs on me.
     
  2. Jun 10, 2018 at 6:45 PM
    #2
    bobeast

    bobeast really old member

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    Yep. It's pretty much pound for pound. Upgrading the suspension can increase your carrying capacity from a practical sense, but there are legal ramifications.

    Say you upgrade the suspension and then load up an additional 1000lbs, over the factory spec. This will give your insurance company an excuse to deny a claim as they will not take into consideration your improvements. You may even be found legally liable for any damages.

    Now factory specs probably include a healthy safety margin, but again, that is a practical consideration that may not stand up in court.
     
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  3. Jun 10, 2018 at 7:01 PM
    #3
    Backslider

    Backslider [OP] Thirsty...

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    Thanks - that's pretty much what I thought. I assumed there was a pretty good buffer in the payload capacity too. I guess there's more reason to buy an offroad trailer now..
     
  4. Jun 10, 2018 at 7:01 PM
    #4
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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    Simple answer, yes it does affect payload, handling, performance, etc.

    A lot of people just ignore these simple little details.

    For instance, why do you all think my Jeep doesn’t hit pavement? (Besides having non DOT rated tires)

    My answer:

    - There is a point at which driving something so modified on the street is no longer safe for those duties. I have 40” tires, 1 ton axles, upgrades dodge 3500 brake booster/ master cylinder, steel/steel braided lines throughout. I can lock up all four tires. Does this mean I can stop just as good as when this Jeep had 33” tires? Actually, surprisingly it feels stronger, but I have a disabled ABS system, pure physics that a 40” tire will not stop sooner than what my braking system was designed to do.
    There are no sway bars on my junk, but that will change this next year.
    The Jeep isn’t overly tall either. It sits about the same when I was on 35” tires and a 3.5” long arm lift. Not bad for being on 40’s now.

    Don’t get me wrong, the Jeep is built like a brick shithouse and I trust it on its lid with myself not getting injured (been there a few times), and can handle quite the smackdown.

    Personally, adding aftermarket bumpers doesn’t add that much weight. Don’t forget your pulling some off as well. If adding a winch, ensure you buy a synthetic rope and aluminum fairlead to reduce weight.

    RTT racks & tent, fuel, high lift jacks, supplies, people all take away for your capacity, and very quickly.

    I have never heard of an insurance company denying a claim due to vehicle modifications or being overweight.
     
  5. Jun 10, 2018 at 7:05 PM
    #5
    zcarpenter92

    zcarpenter92 Yotas, Coronas and 'Merica

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    Not to say it’s a good thing to go over weight or anything, I’ve hauled too many times too heavy and it always made me nervous as hell. But wouldn’t an insurance company’s only way of denying a claim due to being overweight be to have your vehicle weighed on a certified scale? Or can their mere suspicion be enough to deny it?
     
  6. Jun 10, 2018 at 7:09 PM
    #6
    Backslider

    Backslider [OP] Thirsty...

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    I've done the math on the winch and bumper, and I'll be adding about 140lbs. Already decided on a synthetic line due to payload consideration, among other things. I carried about 240lbs worth of water (not counting cold/frozen water in my cooler) on our last trip. I weigh 240. My wife is another 120. My son adds another 90.. That leaves me with about 120lbs to spare.

    The 4runner door sticker says 950lb payload, but GVWR - curb weight = 1625lbs. Is this perhaps the buffer that @bobeast mentioned?
     
  7. Jun 10, 2018 at 7:13 PM
    #7
    Backslider

    Backslider [OP] Thirsty...

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    While liability in an accident is certainly a concern, my major concern is safety and handling characteristics. It seems like a bunch of people out there are pretty overweight, particularly on a lot of these 4runners I see.
     
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  8. Jun 10, 2018 at 7:24 PM
    #8
    zcarpenter92

    zcarpenter92 Yotas, Coronas and 'Merica

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    I feel ya, my question was more out of curiosity than anything. Figured we may have an insurance agent or two on here. Id bet you’re right, at the ToyTec get together yesterday I bet every tricked out T4R is overweight at least 500 lbs.
     
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  9. Jun 10, 2018 at 7:24 PM
    #9
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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    Damn you carry a buttload of water. Where you going out for a week or so? (Aprox 29 gallons)

    Payload is a concern on all vehicles. Jeep guys are the worst.
    JKUs are very heavy, and when people put enough body armor to qualify as an armored security truck, it’s even worse.
     
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  10. Jun 10, 2018 at 7:26 PM
    #10
    Backslider

    Backslider [OP] Thirsty...

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    Yeah, about a week total. Some strenuous hikes in 85 degree middle of the desert stuff and wanted to be prepared. We didn't use it all, I don't think we'll take that much next time.
     
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  11. Jun 10, 2018 at 7:28 PM
    #11
    Backslider

    Backslider [OP] Thirsty...

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    I will say using it to clean the red dirt off ourselves was worth every flippin' pound though.
     
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  12. Jun 10, 2018 at 7:28 PM
    #12
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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    That makes total sense then. I have been without water, and that sucks (and can be dangerous).
     
  13. Jun 10, 2018 at 7:29 PM
    #13
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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    I still think there’s some red Utah mud on my Jeep from 9 years ago! It never comes totally out. Lol
     
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  14. Jun 10, 2018 at 7:31 PM
    #14
    Backslider

    Backslider [OP] Thirsty...

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    Ha! I think it procreates - every time I climb under the damn thing there seems to be more of it.
     
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  15. Jun 10, 2018 at 8:00 PM
    #15
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ So there I was.... Staff Member

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    This is one of my first builds at the beginning. Nothing to major:

    Full tools in bed, custom tube bumper (before they were popular), SS tires, etc.

    B18931EF-C95C-4A11-ADC3-D9AB796EAB1C.jpg

    In the end, I had all pro sliders, new coil springs to handle winch weight, Alcan rear packs, rear tube bumper with corner guards, etc.

    This damn thing started getting so heavy, was my daily driver, and it wasn’t great at anything. Wasn’t awesome off-road, wasn’t awesome on pavement, Sunday nights were always repairing the shit I tore up that weekend so I could get to work the next day.

    I truly didn’t start enjoying off-roading until I purchased a 97 TJ Jeep Wrangler dedicated solely for off-road purposes.
    Then came the problem of “iron manning” it. You know, drive to the trail, then wheel hard all day, break something, sometimes fix it, and then try to drive home.
    Next stage was, I’ll just flat tow the damn Jeep. That was better, but not fool proof.

    790DF47A-87FF-4A4A-8725-A0945DCF615E.jpg

    Certainly this was better when I did this shit...

    88769EE6-4B08-441B-8140-B51B80953691.jpg

    Then finally, after going up Vail Pass doing 10-15 mph in our Tacoma, we decided to actually step up the game.

    My wife surprised me for my 32nd birthday and purchased me this.

    FD56AAB1-14BD-4F75-8E89-AF2B75B9E9B3.jpg

    After I could get home in style, not worrying if I was going to sheer off a pitman arm (I have actually done this on the first part of a trail, after driving on the road at 75 mph for a couple hours), it was on. No fucks given!

    BF01ED2A-8F62-4F46-AE5C-653A1F8664A9.jpg
    0A739AB3-BA51-45EA-B327-C014808D0A9E.jpg

    Now I really don’t mind hitting some crazy shit. I’ll get out, drag it on the trailer, go home and sleep like a baby fully knowing I will either drive my car or truck the next day.
    When I went up to do an easy trail with @Thegr8punkin in northern Colorado and popped a head gasket, could you imagine what we would have had to do just to get it home? Rent u haul and trailer, drive up to Jeep, load it up, drive home in a shitbox rental, unload it, return the shitbox rental and give them several hundred dollars, have my wife pick me up, and then go home. F that.
     
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  16. Jun 10, 2018 at 8:15 PM
    #16
    gosolo

    gosolo “The .com stands for communist”, Dale Gribble

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    2015 Pro:
    I'm running with a permanent minimum payload of over 1K;
    Me; 210, Decked Drawers: 210, Snugtop: 200, Transfer 46g tank: 100, Sliders:100, winch and mount: 140, wife: not saying, miscellaneous tools: 100.
    Does not leave me much room to spare. Definitely couldn’t do it with the old G1 Taco.
     
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  17. Jun 10, 2018 at 8:20 PM
    #17
    Backslider

    Backslider [OP] Thirsty...

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    Interestingly, if you calculate based on GVRW - curb weight the 4runner has a payload similar to a CM Tundra. What is the transfer tank, just an 8g reservoir that ties into the main tank?

    @ColoradoTJ - awesome pics! We're not into anything too hardcore, but are really starting to love spending extended periods off the pavement. So far nothing beyond middle technical difficulty, but I definitely want to be prepared so I don't end up being that dipship who gets my family stranded in the wilderness!

    My friend is a pretty hardcore Jeep wheeler too. It's like his everything and it looks like a ton of fun.. in someone else's car. I just don't think I could not throw up seeing $50k worth of vehicle and gear go over backwards!
     
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  18. Jun 10, 2018 at 8:24 PM
    #18
    Spolar

    Spolar Going broke

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    Yes I don’t have much to say on this one, I’m one of the guys who doesn’t pay much attention to payload unfortunately. I upgraded my suspension heavily and my leafs are built for a good 700lbs of load but with the rtt, water, fuel, tools, spares, firewood, camping gear, skids and bumpers I’m carrying a lot of weight while driving fairly hard off-road. The truck is also paying the price. My bed is jacked and warping and I’ve had to rebuild my rear shocks twice. Already called the shop to have my frame boxed and extra support for the bed mounts. All you can do is build up the truck as best you can to carry the load you want. Osidepunker’s truck weighs well over 8k lbs but had to do pretty extensive mods to make it happen including custom 3” wide leafs with custom hangers to help support all the weight.
     
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  19. Jun 10, 2018 at 8:24 PM
    #19
    zcarpenter92

    zcarpenter92 Yotas, Coronas and 'Merica

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    I know this isn’t for me, but I’m pretty sure I understand this correctly. @gosolo has a 46 gal TransferFlo replacement tank, which replaced his 26 gal one. He has a 2015.
     
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  20. Jun 10, 2018 at 8:25 PM
    #20
    Backslider

    Backslider [OP] Thirsty...

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    Ah - thanks for the clarification. 20 gallons of additional fuel should weigh in at about 160lbs tho!

    Correction - 120lbs. Apparently gas is lighter than water.. ?
     
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  21. Jun 10, 2018 at 8:28 PM
    #21
    gosolo

    gosolo “The .com stands for communist”, Dale Gribble

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    980ABE7A-5706-419C-B533-0FD9F21AF2E3.jpg
    The transfer flow tank, on the left is bigger and made of steel. It replaces the stock tank, on the right, which is made of of plastic. Between the steel and additional gas, it’s about another 200 lbs on the truck.
     
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  22. Jun 11, 2018 at 10:33 AM
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    bobeast

    bobeast really old member

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    I've heard anecdotes of them doing exactly that, particularly after a fatal accident where liability was in question. That said, these are just retold anecdotes, so value them as you will.
     
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  23. Jun 11, 2018 at 11:42 AM
    #23
    Backslider

    Backslider [OP] Thirsty...

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    I think it's a very valid consideration - it wasn't something I really considered until you mentioned it in your first response. I appreciate being made aware of the possibility!
     

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