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3/4 ton

Discussion in 'General Tundra Discussion' started by Basskrazee, Jun 26, 2018.

  1. Jun 26, 2018 at 8:15 PM
    #1
    Basskrazee

    Basskrazee [OP] Pop

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    I’ve been in the mountains of Wyoming and Montana on vacation for the last couple of weeks and I’ve come to the conclusion that Toyota Corp needs to get their heads out of their asses. I’ve seen mostly Ford, Dodge and Chevy being used by these ranchers out here. All 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. I’m just saying. I can’t belive the potential market out here.
     
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  2. Jun 26, 2018 at 8:18 PM
    #2
    zcarpenter92

    zcarpenter92 Yotas, Coronas and 'Merica

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    I agree on the principle, but the only problem I see is this: good luck getting most of the Big 3 customers out of their brand, let alone into a Toyota. Out here in eastern CO, seems like everyone is a die hard Duramax or Powerstroke fan. They wouldn't consider anything outside their brand let alone a "Japanese" truck, no matter how reliable it is.
     
  3. Jun 26, 2018 at 8:49 PM
    #3
    Basskrazee

    Basskrazee [OP] Pop

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    Maybe they should investigate where all of the parts for their trucks are made. Might just open their eyes a little.
     
  4. Jun 26, 2018 at 8:56 PM
    #4
    zcarpenter92

    zcarpenter92 Yotas, Coronas and 'Merica

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    Oh I've had that argument with more than a few of them. The common retort is "well its still made by an American company." Shitty argument as it stands, especially considering how many of them I know that own Glocks, Sigs, HK's, etc.
     
  5. Jun 26, 2018 at 9:08 PM
    #5
    Basskrazee

    Basskrazee [OP] Pop

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    Good points. Well taken.
     
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  6. Jun 26, 2018 at 9:10 PM
    #6
    zcarpenter92

    zcarpenter92 Yotas, Coronas and 'Merica

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    Yeah its a shitty deal, because if they could get by the bias I think Toyota could sell diesels like hotcakes if they kept that legendary reliability in a diesel. Though most of those guys I've had that argument with will begrudgingly admit how reliable Yota's are.
     
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  7. Jun 26, 2018 at 9:20 PM
    #7
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    WY population 579,315

    Montana population 1.05

    So let’s just combine the two states and call it Monyoming with a total population 1.6 million people. Out of all those people, maybe 40% are farmers/ranchers, and I’m swinging high for the fence here. So that’s 640k people, and divide this by two, 320k trucks needed. Nobody gets the lions share right off, but since for arguements sake, Toyota actually gets 20% of the market from Ram, GM, Ford. Now understand Chevy and GMC put out 940k+ trucks per year. Ford is around 870k. Who gives a rats ass about Ram.
    As of right now, Toyota can’t keep up with the demand for the current Tundra, and manufacture 120k per year at tops.
    It’s a numbers game. Instead of jumping into a shark infested waters with deep cuts, they play it smart and maximize what they can handle and keep reliable in the market they are in.
    Toyota would have to invest so much capital into an unknown market, in the tune of 2-3billion dollars.

    I worked for Toyota in the early 90’s in Montana. We had no problems selling 280-300 vehicles per month. A lot of those trucks and 4Runners went to farms and ranches to run fence line and what not. Just because you don’t see them, trust me, they are being used like work horses. Our maintenance division had to take contracts out with Chrysler/Dodge dealerships for repair work. No kidding. They had so much and the techs sucked, so we did a lot of the technical troubleshooting.
     
  8. Jun 26, 2018 at 9:29 PM
    #8
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    While there is a valid argument for both sides, the ending dollars head overseas, regardless of where manufactured. Just like Glocks are manufactured in the US for NA, the money goes elsewhere.
    Personally, I’m not so narrow minded and get the best tool for the job, regardless of where manufactured or where the bottom line goes.

    But what do I know, I own a Duramax and had Glocks before my horrific boating accident.
     
  9. Jun 26, 2018 at 9:45 PM
    #9
    zcarpenter92

    zcarpenter92 Yotas, Coronas and 'Merica

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    True. I view things the same, though my love for 1911’s and my XDS has kept me in the American handgun camp even though I do own a Glock too. I figure one way or another some money winds up overseas, though if I can I do prefer more of those parts come from the US of A.
     
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  10. Jun 26, 2018 at 9:57 PM
    #10
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    I’m the same way. However, I just don’t get into those discussions with people. Unless I sleep next to you, pay my bills...I don’t want to hear it.

    I had a contractor doing some work for me on my last house and he owned two Tundras (1&2nd gens) and loved them. He just did normal maintenance and gas. His 1st gen was up around 280k miles. Around my city, I’ve been seeing a lot more Tundras as work trucks, significantly more.
     
  11. Jun 26, 2018 at 10:05 PM
    #11
    Coolhardy

    Coolhardy New Member

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    I started a thread similar to this once which didn't end too well. Toyota cars and trucks are well built and lasts forever. U.S is a big and only Market for Tundra but their Hilux is well known in the rest of the world.

    Pickup truck owners are normally die hard fans of big 3 and all American products. Like I said in my previous thread, my pickup truck "friends" said why would u buy a foreign truck and that was in Chicago not somewhere in Idaho.

    Unlike Nissan, Toyota won't intrduce Diesel until they are allowed to bring in their own Diesel thats being used in rest of the world. They took off TRD supercharger because of relaibilty issues. One of the reason, they wont go to heavy duty market anytime soon.
     
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  12. Jun 26, 2018 at 11:48 PM
    #12
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    I agree with some of the bold. I have a friend that will never own a Chevy, period. He hasn’t gone V8 in his LJ Jeep because of fitment issues with 5.4L motors and all what’s involved in doing the swap when he could just do a LS swap with ease. However, he always compliments my truck when he is riding with me...calls it Cadillac towing. Not sure if he’s calling my truck a car or nice truck.

    Most of the people I know, buy what they want after some research. I almost purchased a Ford F-350, until my friends exact truck (guy in first paragraph) motor had to be pulled apart at 15k miles and a new front end at 20k miles. I’m not wealthy like him and can purchase a new truck every two years and then write it off as a business expense.

    Everyone has their own taste in vehicles. Some say the Tundra is butt ugly and prefer the F150. I would be opposite in that comment.
    I own a GMC SLT 3500, but can’t stand the stance or looks of a SLT 1500. It has subtle differences that I don’t like.

    C1701628-7262-4527-8D56-8B97F8350E74.jpg

    B4007D5D-5D5A-4A63-BB17-E9C18FE5BD5A.jpg

    It’s probably the bed configuration (GM offers 3 sizes in the 1/2 ton), definately the hood and grill.

    I can’t wait until the next gen Tundra comes out. If it is what some people have hinted, and I’m not towing as much anymore, I may just go back.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
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  13. Jun 27, 2018 at 7:36 PM
    #13
    UpSteer32

    UpSteer32 New Member

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    To be fair to the domestic companies (Ford, GM and Ram) they all have a pretty solid hold on the 3/4 and 1 ton markets. I don't think that's purely due to die-hard loyalists. Their HD trucks are in fact engineered and built to a higher standard than the average 1/2 ton or midsized pickup. The powertrain combinations (both the gasoline and the diesel and corresponding transmissions) are pretty well sorted at this point. Toyota fans like to brag about how their vehicles can last 200k-300k miles without much drama, and I certainly believe that to be true if the vehicle is maintained and operated within certain parameters. The domestic 3/4 ton's are designed to last that long, arguably longer, all while enduring a whole lot more abuse.

    It would require a very good vehicle and a whole lot of marketing to draw consumers away from those established brands. I'm not saying Toyota isn't up to that task, but perhaps they believe their money and effort is better spent elsewhere.
     
  14. Jun 25, 2020 at 9:57 PM
    #14
    Korben Dallas

    Korben Dallas New Member

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    The Tundra is mathematically the same as any other 3/4 ton truck. They made a deal with the major American corporations that they wouldn't compete in the big truck market...thus they sell it as a 1/2 ton.
     
  15. Jun 26, 2020 at 7:57 AM
    #15
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Burning airlines give you so much more...

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    7200 lb GVWR, 10k lbs towing and 1700 lbs or less of payload is 3/4 ton territory? :crazy:
     
  16. Jun 26, 2020 at 8:40 AM
    #16
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    I would love to get the inside information on this document. Surely there’s a link to that.

    I’ll wait....
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  17. Jun 27, 2020 at 10:40 AM
    #17
    FWD Tundra

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    I think that is what the American Companies are afraid of. Legendary reliability is what Toyota does. That is probably why we will never see a Toyota Diesel in America. They have said they are making one for America but it never seems to move along. They also said that Toyota could not compete in Nascar unless they had the pushrod V8. Well...…… how is Toyota doing now in Nascar???? And any other racing they are involved in?
     
  18. Jun 27, 2020 at 11:48 AM
    #18
    CourtJester

    CourtJester New Member

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    I worked for Toyota at the Princeton, IN plant when they started making the Tundra. The question was brought up several times and the answer was always that there wasn't enough of a market to support it with the other competitors out there. Also concern of whether or not the folks currently in a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge would be willing to move to a Japanese manufacturer even if it was built in the US. They did say that they had a design for diesel truck to compete with the F350 and 3500 though. Just not enough of a market to support it.
     
  19. Jun 27, 2020 at 9:16 PM
    #19
    FWD Tundra

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    That must have been a rote management forced answer to the question. I think that they are just covering there back side, if Toyota did make some kind of an arrangement then they would have to stand behind the upper management decision. I still think Toyota would kill the market with a Diesel. Now tell me that these people buy the USA brands because they are made in America, no because, if they want to tow something real heavy what choice do they have? Dodge, Chevy, Ford. The only feasible choice. Through a Toyota in there and there goes the market share.
     
  20. Jun 27, 2020 at 10:11 PM
    #20
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    See Nissan Titan XD with the Cummins 5.0.

    That worked out well. So glad Toyota actually was smart and went a different route.

    Patiently waiting on 2022 model Tundra.
     
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  21. Jun 28, 2020 at 8:35 AM
    #21
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Burning airlines give you so much more...

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    Don't you think it could have worked well if it had been reliable? Maybe if they'd used the I6 Cummins that Dodge has been using forever? (Or does Dodge have some kind of agreement with Cummins about who can use that engine?)
     
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  22. Jun 28, 2020 at 10:09 AM
    #22
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    I think (this is just my personal opinion) there were several variables that made the Titan XD with the Cummins fail.

    Cost. The titan has some really nice options in a 1/2 ton truck. These options also shot the cost way out of the ball park for a 1/2 ton truck and into the North American truck diesel market. Would you pay $55K dollars for a 1/2 ton truck that has a semi-floating rear axle, 310hp/555tq or the same money for a true HD truck with 400hp/9-1025tq and a considerable jump in payload/tow ratings?

    Capabilities. The titan had some good numbers for payload and towing. However, we can go right back to cost. Some people just couldn't choke down the $55K plus in cost, and still have some pretty good limitations. With having 310hp/555#'torque, it just wasn't competitive. When watching the TFL tow test on the Ike Gauntlet with the gas vs diesel it was very evident. When a naturally aspirated engine spanks its turbo diesel counterpart on a tow test at elevation, that is embarrassing to say the least.

    Weight. The B series motor is 1100 lbs. To hold up that weight, you need a really heavy duty frame, axle(s), suspension/drivetrain setup to even hold it.

    Here is a link to ratings and what not:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cummins_B_Series_engine

    I had quite the book typed up, but deleted it. Really didn't want to get into that rabbit hole.:thumbsup:
     
  23. Jun 28, 2020 at 10:29 AM
    #23
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Burning airlines give you so much more...

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    I don't mind going down this type of rabbit hole. PM it to me if you want.
     
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  24. Jun 28, 2020 at 10:49 AM
    #24
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    Absolutely. PM me reminding me with specific questions. I have time late this evening.
     
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  25. Jun 28, 2020 at 11:16 AM
    #25
    Tileguy

    Tileguy New Member

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    I own a small subcontracting business. My Tundra is used daily to haul heavy loads occasionally over 2000 lbs to job sites. I have 417K miles on it with no major issues and have only done minimum maintenance. Hoping for 500K.

    4E2671E7-9C10-4826-98A8-F80137FCD42C.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  26. Jun 28, 2020 at 12:30 PM
    #26
    FWD Tundra

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    The good thing about is they do their homework before pulling the trigger on any new idea. For Nisson I don’t think they thought it completely through. Toyota Tundras are already staged for the next version as they are already on a 3/4 ton frame to compete.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  27. Jun 28, 2020 at 3:20 PM
    #27
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    What makes you think a Tundra is on a 3/4 ton frame?
     
  28. Jun 28, 2020 at 4:48 PM
    #28
    BTBAKER

    BTBAKER ..........

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    I believe it’s actually a 1 ton.

    F2118614-2CF9-4623-99B0-7435D1538039.jpg
     
  29. Jun 28, 2020 at 4:49 PM
    #29
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    :D


    That’s pretty awesome right there.
     
  30. Jun 29, 2020 at 2:22 PM
    #30
    FWD Tundra

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    ColoradoTJ,
    The cargo capacity numbers say that my truck will carry a cargo load of 1300 lbs., above the basic empty weight, that is 300 lbs. more than that of a 1/2 ton. So I don't think Toyota would short change a frame that would not be able to handle with ease almost 3/4 ton. So that is my thought process. Ford, Chevy, and Dodge under rate their capacities VS Tonnage. I believe at one time it had something to do with a CDL License for anything over a ton in rating. My 5 lug wheels tell me that my truck is a 1/2 ton truck, but that does not make any since, as the axle weight is 4000+ lbs. rating, hum??? I am probably wrong in thought process but the numbers indicate something different. Maybe you could shed more light on this for me?

    ColoradoTJ,
    What is your connection to the O'Keefe Music Foundation? You can PM me if you want?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
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