2023 Tundra MSRP vs Purchase Price

We probably won’t see that ever again.

 

Isn’t that add for a used truck? It says 11,000KM. I thought we were talking about brand new rigs.

 

11km or 7 miles. Not 11,000km

 

Bergeron or fernelius?

 

My 23' platinum was over $67k including a $600 doc fee and $2000 with dealer add-ons. After negotiating with an out of state truck, I was able to buy it for just under $63 plus tax. Super happy with it. Zero problems!

 

I travelled 400 miles each way for 1794 MGM 4x4 2000+ off.

Found the dealership on this forum under "Available Tundras"

So far so good. Truck runs well.

 

I look forward to the days when a conversation starts at dealer invoice and goes from there.
Enough with this msrp junk!

 

And the dealer still made $500 plus any incentives from Toyota.
That tells me on higher trims they are probably making 75% of the difference in price as profit.

I think at some point there's going to be a watershed moment, a pivot, when things start getting back to normal. A couple of signs happened a couple weeks ago in my area Ontario, Canada. The Ontario gov't announced cheap Hydro rates from 11pm for electric cars and other hydro loads. They also announced beefing up nuclear facilities.

The bigger sign will be when people stop thinking of pickups as personal vehicles except those that them for work or to support personal and recreational activities that need trucks. But I can't say much in support as in Canada the F150 is the bestselling vehicle. And the RAM and Silverado are in the top 5. And they are hardly good winter vehicles. There are better choices for those that do not really need a pickup. JMO

Yeah Canadian trucks - kms = kilometers. New trucks. Trust me - One of those trucks is mine. And the crazy thing is they want to give me over $50k for it now as a trade in. You see I park it in winter pretty much, and use it Spring - Fall to go the the sumnmer place only. So mileage is low especially with the pandemic shutting everyone down and no rust.

 

54k OTD, 23' SR5 4x4 Crewmax 6.5 bed. premium audio package, advanced tech package, air suspension, pvm + bsm mirrors, heated steering wheel, door edge guards, floor liners, bed mat. Picked up early December 2022. Loving it so far.

I did fly out and drive back 14 hours for it lol

 

Can't find any dealer in the SLC and Vegas region that will go lower than MSRP :/

 

Man, you fellas must have accommodating dealers or are Master negotiators.

My MSRP was $71,584 and the dealer refused to budge by a single penny. Attitude was "if you don't want it the next guy will". (March 2023)

I had waited for this truck since November when they got the allocation and I guess Mesquite 1794 4x4 OR HV is somewhat of a unicorn, but damn.

At least I didn't pay markup so there's that. And I do love the truck!

 

It will help if you can negotiate on a truck sitting on a lot somewhere ready for delivery (opposed to a truck that hasn't yet been delivered to the dealership). Don't be afraid to shop out of state. Call some of the dealers advertising below msrp and get a firm written sales agreement by email to make sure there are no hidden extras. Once you have that you can shop around and use it to show other dealers you are ready to buy elsewhere if they don't come down on price. I also made it clear to the salesman I was ready to put a deposit down THAT DAY if the sales manager was willing to price match to what I found out of state.

Also; for buyers like myself who didn't finance, don't tell this to the salesman until after you have negotiated a price you are happy with. Dealers are less likely to go down on the sales price if they know they won't be making money on the backside from your financing. And don't be afraid to walk out of a deal if they pressure you into add-on garbage you don't want or need, like protection packages, anti-theft packages, etc.

 

Do they really have a lot of money though?

I think a lot of people are borrowing a lot of money to prop up a lifestyle they can’t actually afford.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/02/16/economy/us-household-debt-fourth-quarter/index.html

Now that cheap money is gone, it’s going to be tougher to move $50,000 - $80,000+ luxury trucks and cars. Most people are payment buyers, and it’s getting tougher for dealers to get banks to lend on a lot of stuff because a lot of these folks are also rolling negative equity or ADM into the loans.

Along with credit card debt going up, so are auto loan delinquencies.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/02/04...what-to-do-if-you-struggle-with-payments.html

I remember similar economic conditions in 2008-2009. Not saying we’re headed for that deep of a recession, but I think we see one by 4th quarter of this year.

Inventory will catch up and dealers will start dealing again.

 

I can see how you would conclude that everyone is sitting on piles of cash because the people you associate with are sitting on piles of cash. Have you considered that based on your personality, profession, interests, education, and economic position that your group of friends and associates might end up being very similar to you in many of those areas? That might be skewing your perception of the state of the average person and their finances.

I am in no way suggesting that is a bad thing, successful people usually don’t hang out with dead enders, and slackers. I can assure you there’s a bunch of those people out there though. They’re still spending $1.50 for every $1.00 they bring in.

 

Where in Michigan? Best I could do in SE MI was $3k below MSRP on a “base” Platinum 4x4 and I thought I did pretty well.

 

I too am concerned why the new truck is $60k and we brush it off as the new “normal” but that’s a result of hyperinflation even on the cost of goods.

from my end, I’m not seeing a lot of people with cash, but way more people who are tolerant of 1k/month finance notes on a depreciating asset…and that’s mind blowing.

I grew up in a lower middle income household and we paid cash for everything, and I’m greatly appreciative for that upbringing, particularly since I’m fortunate enough to be in a good career field (I’m a director in Corporate Finance).

Just food for thought, just because you can pay cash, it may not mean you should. I was thinking of paying cash for my Plat, about $65k OTD…I ended up 25k down and 40k financed at 5.2% APR. While that’s normal for todays standards (I still think it’s crazy high) I put the other 40k in my high yield savings making 4.2% APR. it’s a lower interest rate in savings but compounded interest income on the savings and lower interest expense on the loan over time as the balance decreases has me breaking even on the “finance cost” in year 3 of 5 of the loan, then the final two years I will be ahead on the original 40k investment. Perhaps that’s long winded but theses are the types of cash scenarios I run for work and was to able to apply it at home.

Yeah, my car note is $750/month which sucks, but if I’m ever in a pinch (loss of job/income), I can pay off the loan immediately and eliminate that cash flow.

this is just food for thought and not for everyone…I walked my dad through this and the answer was “I get the math….I don’t like loans, sticking with cash”.

 

I think its a case of both. People have cash which came from the free pandemic money, and some cases like mine - cheap mortgage money that is earning in interest more than it is costing me right now, as I wait to do something with it. As well as a high tolerance (leveraging) attitude toward debt. Unheard of in how I was brought up to have no debt. There is nothing normal in what has happened the last 3 years, and to think that things will return to what we think is normal soon, may be premature. Case in point

Canadian housing has been declared as the top housing bubble in the world by international sources. Prices jacked 50% during the pandemic, had fallen 19% in the last year ...then it plateaued and prices actually rose last month. Why ?

We have the variable rate mortgage phenomena here. Variable rate mortgages float with the Bank of Canada "our fed" rates. BofC has gone from .25% to 4.5%. Many people on these variable rate mortgages can no longer afford the mortgage payments. Their payments no longer cover the monthly interest. We are talking Negative Amortization. The amount they owe on their house goes up every month, and their equity in the house goes down.

@RPKEAN - ^^^^paying a crazy amount every month on a depreciating asset - who would have thought to put a house in this category for these people. That is what is mind blowing to me.

So what now?
Well the big banks here do not want to see their collateral "the house" fall in value, which would happen if a bunch of people had to list their homes for sale and there was a run. So they have allowed them to bump up their amortization from 25-30 yrs to 35-40 years. unheard of here. This has kept people from selling and flooding the market. But once the mortgage term typically 1-5 years is up, for the renewal, they will need to re-qualify at the new rates with amortization back down to 25-30 years. Is it a case of giving more rope to the hangman ?

The higher rates are also keeping people who want to sell and buy another house from selling as well. This has contributed to creating a listing shortage and kept prices propped up.

Our Federal gov't has already said they will help people if we go into deep recession, and they have set record immigration targets. Most of those people end up in the Toronto and Vancouver areas where the biggest bubbles are. With the severe lack of housing and shortage of listings, there are now early signs (late April/May) again of FOMO - fear of missing out, with multiple bids on decent properties. And this caused prices to actually rise last month.

 

4.2%- you a SoFi plus member ?

 

Until recently, rates were ridiculously and abnormally low due to Fed policies. Take home mortgage rates for instance. Historically speaking, 6% is completely reasonable. The problem is people have been spoiled for the past decade. They are going to have to get over it.

 

Actually Betterment.

 

Do you mind sharing the info, friend is looking for a army green

 

23 Hybrid TRD Off-road, Limited, fully loaded 72.5k in FL.

 

and here i thought my $554 @ 60 m payment was high, its just a tad over my threshold of $500 max but the warden err wife is paying it so not my problem. (btw i pay house, utils and my cc myself, she just covers her truck, insurance, cellphone and her cc in her name)

 

At least she let you keep it. Looking forward to welcoming our new member

 

maybe he should talk to tundra dude
/s

 

Took me a while to understand if he is talking about trading the truck or the wife.

 

well he would save a lot more in the long run trading in the wife, as long as he got a pre-nup or better lawyer

 

Local Dealer has got a "used" (971 miles) AG TRD OR FS
https://www.riversidehasit.com/used/Toyota/2022-Toyota-Tundra-b81cc6d90a0e0a990b0885897549c391.htm

 

Yeah well a million is now the new average mortgage for a new buyer in the GTA. Average price $1.2 million. You need to put down 20% to not have to pay for monthly mortgage insurance. That costs roughly $6000 month to carry now with the rate increases, plus taxes, utilities, repairs. You can rent that same house (ie. 4 bdr/3 washroom) for $3500. Its a total disconnect. People still keeping the houses paying the mortgages, extending amortizations, waiting for prices to go up again and rates to fall.
In Vancouver add approx. $200k to the above numbers.

 

Can you get me her number?