2022 Tundra

I really don't mind innovation and change...if, as you say, it's done correctly. The domestic OEM's have been hell-bent on making their 1/2 tons drive & handle like cars and have made all sorts of compromises (approach angles, complex shifting strategies, lower gearing, lightweighting of major components, engine start-stop) to enhance mpg's. And quite honestly, most of the "generational" changes have been nothing more than updates to the bodywork/design and interior setup; the underlying chassis for some of the domestic 1/2 tons have seen minor changes, if any, in recent years.

Toyota built the Tundra to be a durable workhorse, rather than a lifestyle truck. I acknowledge that only a fraction of owners actually use the Tundra to its full utility, but it's that track record for solid, long-term durability that has built up the truck's reputation. So long as Toyota doesn't do anything to mess up that reputation, I'm fine with whatever changes they make.

Toyota has never built 'world beating' trucks. The current gen Tundra wasn't really a class-leader when it first came out, though it was extremely competitive for the time (and I would argue still is). Even the famed LandCruisers and Hilux's sold overseas are relatively tame and underwhelming in terms of outright performance or paper stats. Those trucks sell well because they get the job done and last a long time.

 

• Is there any manufacturer out there doing “continuous improvement” correctly?
  
  What I see is a direct relationship between repair/recall headaches and the continuous introduction of new tech, new drivetrains, etc...

 

You got that right!!!

 

Since part of toyota's philosophy is based on "kaizan" which is continuous improvement then yes. Does that translate into new powertrains, cars, tech every month, no. There is also always going to be problems with new tech, innovations, especially when its done qt huge scales. But you just keep making it better. Better, better, better, never best. There's always room for improvement. I feel toyota does a good job with doing just enough to stay relative while keeping reliability at there core.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Toyota_Way

 

agreed but even with that the tundra specifically has fallen by the wayside, 15 years is way too long

the normal Toyota product cycle is 7 years, but they sold this as a 3rd gen which it really isn’t

but looks like we finally get a real 3rd gen soon

 

Yeah, that would be the opposite of what my former employer calls continuous improvement.

 

Toyota needs some Kaizen (continuous improvement) on its customer perception management. Keeping the details on the 2022 so tight to the chest is much akin of aiming for ones foot and pulling the trigger.

These are not normal times. There is a lot of pent up customer demand that is sitting home and researching, waiting for this COVID debacle to end. I am one of them and I am certainly getting annoyed at the lack of information, even general information on the truck. As soon as things start to open up I plan to pull the trigger on a Tundra -- unless Toyota's BS gets untenable and forces me to look at Ford (Please! NO.)

If Toyota is playing it close to protect cannibalizing 2021 sales which there is a short supply due to manufacturing issues and chip shortages then they are mistaken. 110K sales is not something you worry about compared to the numbers of your competitors. Plus you can't get the stock to dealers half the time. What gives? Now add in that there is news that Toyota actually has a four month stockpile of chips, far more than any other manufacturer. What's the real story Toyota?

These missteps are hurting the brand among prospective customers who have no loyalty to Toyota and helping the competition.

If the 2022 truck is going to be a game changer then more information, even generic, would be available. Don't fool yourselves, GM, Ford and the rest know what Toyota is working on. Industrial espionage is a thing and they all play that game. That means someone is dropping the ball on in marketing or the worse case scenario is that they are only putting lipstick on a pig. Could it be that the truck is only going to have modest upgrades, cosmetic changes and a bubba style engine to meet government numbers?

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer but my gut instinct is leaning toward the latter scenario.

 

Yeah I don't think Toyota is losing any business because they are not marketing a truck that is still clearly in development. An Toyota is not Ford, they will not release any info early until they see fit to do so. Toyota sells around 250,000 Tundras a year. They really don't even need to market the truck to get to that number. The truck sells itself and the new one will do the same no matter if it's all new or lipstick on a pig.

 

Toyota doesn’t sell that many Tundras in 2 years . Tacoma sells about that not the Tundra .

 

I can see your point but when Toyota can't even compete against the numbers of the crap pushed out by Fiat-Chrysler (now add in Puke Go) let alone the rest of the competition is Toyota happy to battle Nissan for fourth and fifth place?

 

Oh my bad, just looked it up, you are right. Ok so Toyota sells about 110,000 to 120,000 Tundras a year. With no marketing.

 

Yeah I don't know if Toyota or Nissan will ever be able to compete with the domestics in sales. Toyota and Nissan don't have 100 or more different option combinations with their trucks . You basically get what you get. If you don't want it, don't buy it. A lot of people don't like that.

 

This perplexes me since, this mantra was said back in the 1960s and 70s. Back then Toyota took on the big three and won so why can't they do it again?

People say the nameplate puts them off but the Tundra supposedly has more US made parts than any of its competitors and it is assembled in Texas. Two items that I think Toyota seriously drops the ball on when they are dealing with a seriously patriotic clientele.

The nameplate argument doesn't seem to wash with me. If it did cause issues then they'd follow Dodge's lead and spin the trucks off into their own brand, Ram. They aren't. The Scion branding was a totally different issue so that argument is a non starter.

As to the domestically made content, that's an easy grab for Toyota but they don't embrace it. Another opportunity wasted.

 

I agree. What they do is confusing at times. Maybe they have researched the numbers and figured they can't compete without a huge investment that they are not willing to make, who knows?

 

Since they are putting the Tundra on the new global platform, logically it would have to be more than only basic cosmetic changes. I guess we will see if it’s a “game changer” or just keeping up with the crowd.

 

I think Toyota doesn't market the Tundra more because they don't see it as part of their core business.

 

How did Toyota win in the 60’s and 70’s in America ? The big 3 were still called the big three because they were the biggest auto manufacturers in the US .

 

I can definitely concur with your point but what makes me hesitant is taking a specialist vehicle and making the platform a Jack of all trades (and a master of none).

The cost benefits are enticing to the company but is this a case of the bean counters over ruling the engineers who made the company?

GM, for decades, has had the shared platform philosophy among its brands and look where it has taken them. Is Toyota making the same mistake?

 

I agree and disagree.

Not to get into a pissing match on facts you need to understand that the "big three" were constantly propped up by the US Government (and to an extent the Canadian government too) via fleet sales orders to government agencies, Federal, State, and local, along with being a military component supplier. If you take government fllet sales out of the mix you will see that the Japanese brands ate aggressively into the big three's non-government consumer sales.

The sales decay was also a reason why GM partnered with Isuzu and Toyota (NUMMI), Ford with Mazda (Sigma?), and Chrysler with Misubishi (Diamond Star). Eventually all the Japanese manufacturers figured out that the big three management was the biggest problem and resulted in brand harm.

Toyota finally jettisoned GM after it realized that sharing facilities and models with GM (Carolla/Nova) was a detriment. Both manufacturers basically made the same car in California except GM would cheap out on things like wiring making their harnesses with a gauge of wire one gauge less to cut costs at the expense of durability. I had a 1988 Chevy Nova new from the factory. Solid Toyota engine and a nightmare of an electrical system courtesy of GM. I blew 3 alternators in that car all due to cheap wiring.

 

I get that . I just remember back then that the Japanese cars that were coming over here were ( for lack of a better term ) junk . They didn’t really get better till the 80’s .
There was a shop around the corner from where we lived in the 80’s called Dr Honda , we had to push our Honda there more than once . I asked him one time how he liked the Honda’s and his response to me was “ are you kidding ? I love Honda’s ... if it wasn’t for them I wouldn’t be in business “
I think the Japanese brands got a lot better since then but the domestics aren’t as bad as what people like to believe either IMHO .

 

Agreed. The Japanese brands pushed GM and others to up their game.

I worked for GM/EDS in the 1980s supporting the engineering CAD systems. Met a lot of their engineers. Really super talented people. Often what was designed was superior to anything on the market. Once the design got passed on to manufacturing economics and eviscerated, the result was crap. Toyota (NUMMI) basically handed GM a license to print money and yet the bean counters still had to F! it up to get those extra cents per unit.

Basically, the Japanese learned form their mistakes and improved their product. The Big Three continued, and still continue, to relive all of their mistakes.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the big three but when the Germans couldn't fix Chrysler and sold it to the Italians (Notice how the union shut up once Fiat owned Chrysler? Maybe they sent Tony and Vito to break some union knee caps?) but look at what Renault did to Nissan and their reliability.

 

Agreed , the bean counters do nothing for durability .

 

Great conversing with you but I think we need to get this thread back on track before we get accused of thread jacking. Looking forward to bantering with you again.

 

This thread hasn’t been on track for a while.

 

I don't think they have any aspiration to be in the top three. When I went on the factory tour I ended up talking to one of the factory managers. He explained that the plant could definitely run at double it's current capacity based on shifts but Toyota sells every truck they make and they presell every truck they make to either dealers or individuals and the plant is profitable. He also said that they're able to maintain high levels of quality and would prefer to keep it that way.

It's true that Toyota does not have the variety of the big three auto manufacturers but you can order a Tundra more to your liking if you're willing to wait. One of the things I always thought was dumb was not in their top of the line TRD pro they didn't offer heated seats or the dual climate control at least not in 2017.

While I appreciate the old school nature of my truck, I would like to have the digital automatic climate control I find that I always have to adjust the manual controls. the lack of heated seats was an easy fix, I had the dealer put in heated seats front and rear before I took delivery. By only other pet peeve is the lack of Auto up and down Windows for all doors. I also wish they had a 110 inverter and power outlets in the bed the way some of the other trucks too and a rear locker would be awesome. These are minor things though.

I've yet to drive a truck that I enjoy more than my TRD PRO. The power, handling, ride and capabilities are a perfect balance for my needs.

 

I am probably not the only one but I am on the fence about waiting for the 2022 announcements and maybe taking a 2021 or even a 2020, yes, I said a 2020! In my area (Long Island, NY) the Toyota website still lists about a dozen 2020 Tundras (mostly high ends) in inventory, though none of the local dealers have them on their website. Looks like the 2020s are going no where. If past proves present, there will be a good assortment of 2021s leftover too if everyone is scrambling for the new 2022s. So either way I win (I hope).

 

Yep. Truck & 4x4 sales are only a tiny fraction of Toyota's sales (domestically and globally). Toyota is a car company that happens to make reliable 4x4's & trucks on the side.

Whereas the big 3 (Ford, FCA, GM) are essentially dependent on their truck/4x4 sales to stay afloat financially. They've lost so much market share in all other vehicle segments that they have no choice but to prioritize and revamp their truck & 4x4 lineup every few years.

 

That may be true for the full size trucks but not so much for the mid-size Tacoma which is a huge seller.

 

Who knows if it will be good or not, but it will definitely be significantly different than the current version. Obviously sharing the platform with the new Sequoia is no big deal. It will also share it with the Tacoma and 4Runner, not sure how much compromising that will create. Probably reduce the chance of a 1500HD version.

 

If Ford ever dropped F-150 sales down to the Tacoma level they’d be bankrupt .