2022 Tundra

As a believer, a nerd and a Tundra enthusiast.....I almost covered my laptop in seltzer just now when I read this. LOL Hilarious post!

 

I agree with this however I think the Large V8s will remain for a long time in the HD trucks and possibly the Challenger and Camaro if they keep their 6.x size V8s there although GM is pushing for all electric so maybe not for the Camaro.

 

Don't get me wrong, if it can be tuned for premium and the gains are worthwhile, I'll gladly buy premium. But for a few hp or a stock version, nope

 

I researched MPG's via fuelly.com comparing Toyota's 5.7l, GM 5.3l and 6.2l V8's, Ford 3.5l TT. I focused on jumbo SUV's since I wanted the best large SUV.

Fuelly showed the real world average MPG's for the 2018-2020 3.5TT in the Expedition are only about 2MPG better than a 2019 5.7l Sequoia.

"Based on data from 38 vehicles, 723 fuel-ups and 214,200 miles of driving, the 2020 Ford Expedition gets a combined Avg MPG of 15.80 with a 0.27 MPG margin of error."

"Based on data from 64 vehicles, 2,409 fuel-ups and 722,060 miles of driving, the 2019 Ford Expedition gets a combined Avg MPG of 15.89 with a 0.14 MPG margin of error."

"Based on data from 72 vehicles, 3,671 fuel-ups and 1,230,185 miles of driving, the 2018 Ford Expedition gets a combined Avg MPG of 16.69 with a 0.07 MPG margin of error."

Sequoia 5.7l hovers around 14.5MPG combined average. Is the increased complexity of a 3.5lTT worth it? The engine bay with a TT is one busy setup. Hoses and tubes all over the top sides and back, looks like a spaghetti meal compared to ravioli.

 

I’m not sure Ford got that memo with the new 7.3 liter gas engine they have. And GM recently offered a 6.6 liter gas engine.

 

If you look at owners of a vehicle how many of them actually open the hood of their car? I've had a 3.5TT Flex for 7 years. I've had no reason to remove all of the pipes. The only one that has been a problem is one that prevents a sparkplug from coming out on the drivers side rear bank position. As far as is it worth it, the total cost of fuel is easy to calculate. The additional headaches from the added complexity less so.

100k miles driven @ 14.5mpg = 6897 gallons of fuel
Average price of fuel = $3.00
Total cost for fuel = $20,691
Spread over 5 years = $4138/yr

100k miles driven @ 16.5mpg = 6061 gallons of fuel
Average price of fuel = $3.00
Total cost for fuel = $18,183
Spread over 5 years = $3636/yr

I would hope the new 2022 could hit closer to the 18mpg mark on average, if not nudge into the 20's. If it could hit 20's average (without towing obviously)

100k miles driven @ 20 mpg = 5000 gallons of fuel
Average price of fuel = $3.00
Total cost for fuel = $15,000
Spread over 5 years = $3000/yr

I'd like another grand a year but if it costs me $15k in vehicle options to get it, then it definitely doesn't pay back.

 

Take it for what it is worth (likely nothing) but the local sales guy gave me some details as I was talking to him about the 2021 and availability of ordering one later this quarter.
- 2022 released in December
- 3.5TT will be released first
- Hybrid won't come until mid model year

 

just his speculation and passed on rumors unless he doesn’t like his job. The people who know are tight lipped for a reason. And those who are saying they know...generally are the ones who don’t know.

 

Well, only 135 pages of posts about a truck that doesn't exist yet. Counting the # of posts makes my brain hurt. Kind of like cryptofauna -- discussing characteristics of animals not yet proven to exist. Just how many toes does a dragon have?

 

Yeah you can't really use those as examples:
1 - Ford developed the 7.3L gas to replace the 6.8L V-10. It was aging, ancient, couldn't pass emissions compliance and was a dog for HP / Torque.
2 - Both of those engines are main line used in their medium duty (commercial) truck applications which have different emission and fuel economy.

 

5 toes

 

You mentioned towing MPG. I researched that also. Ford 3.5l TT achieved less MPG towing compared to the 5.7l.

New 2018 Ford Expedition takes on the World's Toughest Towing Test! - YouTube 3.8 MPG compared to a 5.7l's 4.1 MPG. One would think a turbo engine at high altitude would kickass at high altitude but that didn't prove true. I've seen plenty of Ecoboost owners saying "You have either Eco or Boost, when you get into boost the MPG's drop dramatically."

 

Both in HD trucks. They don't have EPA ratings and they're tuned for towing/hauling. In the case of HD trucks they care about how the engine does while loaded up and for that the V8 has no disadvantage, and less parts are a good thing for fleets where vehicles are abused.

 

The best comparison for this is the same test, but done with the 3 F150 engines - V8, V6TT, V6TT with hybrid. While towing there's statistically no difference between the 3. The turbo does help at altitude but the current V8's are so overpowered for what's needed that it can overcome the lower density air.

 

If you're looking to trade in your Sequoia for something with "better" fuel economy, that's never going to pay for itself. If you're buying a new vehicle anyway, you could do the math on purchase price vs fuel costs but you're unlikely to come out ahead plus you're probably going to have more problems with the Ford.

 

At the risk of stating the obvious. I think you just solidified my point. I quoted the part where he stated the days of the large ICE are over...and to my point the 6.8l Ford was replaced with an even bigger 7.3l engine...same with GM.

 

I didn't solidify your point. You are talking about two different product segments that have different regulations for emissions and fuel economy. The Tundra is not competing against HD pickups. Ford doesn't offer the 7.3L gasser in the F-150 and Chevy doesn't offer the 6.6L gasser in the 1500's for a reason. Those engines were developed for HD applications that have less stringent fuel economy and emissions standards. Ford uses that engine in the F250-F750 applications. GM uses their 6.6L in 2500+ variants including the collaboration they have with other manufacturers for the medium duty truck market.

 

I’m not talking about any product segments. I’m talking contrary to the statement of the end of large ICE. There was no mention of tundra in his post about the end of large ICE. I don’t disagree they are different segments though and I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m disagreeing that the end of large ICE are over...and for all we really know, the large ICE in a tundra may not be over either.

 

The large ICE is over except for medium duty trucks and above (3/4 tons and up) and niche hot rods; I can't even say sports cars as those are going to forced induction too. For half tons and all other commuter cars the large displacement ICE is over. Ford jumped on forced induction early, GM just got on it and have vowed to get rid of them even, and Toyota is about to jump on. Ram sounds like they're going to jump in as well. For all commuter cars efficiency is the main goal, and half tons are now commuter cars that tow/haul better than other commuter cars.

 

Good point. A small displacement turbo matches a 5.7l V8 for performance towing. But I keep coming back to the average combined MPG's provided by fuelly.com.

There isn't a huge difference over the years comparing Ford's 3.5l TT MPG's to the V8's offered by GM, Toyota, Nissan. Fuelly doesn't lie.

 

The way the average person drives it doesn't matter if you're in a TTV6 or a V8. But if you're a disciplined driver you can get better fuel mileage with the turbos. But it's trying to push a big heavy brick through the air and it's about at a peak for gas only engines. Hybrids have a chance to see improvements for average drivers - the F150 unloaded is showing ~5% highway mileage on electric only and the extra boost from zero is the huge gain from the hybrid.

If Toyota comes out only with a V6TT then I'll be keeping my 2016 for a long time, there's just no improvement drivetrain wise. The hybrid is where its at and there's been too many rumors (combined with Toyota's desire to get hybrids everywhere) to not be based in truth that it's coming.

 

That's been my point with the TTv6. The energy produced by a gallon of gas is limited. When under load MPG will not vary very much. Mall crawlin' and main street pimpin' you will get better MPG than a v8...I don't buy trucks to do that and a TTv6 will jump the Tundra price by a big margin. Has there been any rumors on price?

 

Sequoia with 14MPG combined will be fine for ten years. It has the tried and true Torsen center diff, there won't be a huge difference in fuel costs over the life of the vehicle compared to a 3.5l TT.

Ten years from now I have no idea what choices I'll have to replace it.

 

I thought it was 5 as well but they have an opposing thumb.

 

Ahhhh but it does exist .... it’s just covered in camouflage . lol

 

Has anyone seen the latest TFL rendering? They might be close. Thoughts?

https://youtu.be/O6jsypcvMRk

 

It's probably been mentioned before or speculated on this forum but do we have any ideas what starting price will be for Tundra? or say the highest trims?

 

I think that’s pretty close to what the new truck will look like.

 

Based on the TFL video I'm going out on a limb and saying the rendering is going to be very close to what the New Tundra will look like.