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2020 LandCruiser comes with transmission cooler, why not Tundra?

Discussion in '3rd Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by sabet, Mar 14, 2021.

  1. Mar 24, 2021 at 8:57 AM
    #211
    tttrdpro

    tttrdpro Former Naval Person

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    It does on my ‘21.
     
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  2. Mar 24, 2021 at 9:22 AM
    #212
    realprotundra

    realprotundra Always Skeptical

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    A lot of conjecture here but very little evidence.

    The only thing I am 100% clear on after reading the posts this morning is that no one in this thread truly knows exactly how T/H mode works, knows exactly how T/H interacts with S mode, or knows whether towing one way or the other will actually negatively affect the transmission longevity.
     
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  3. Mar 24, 2021 at 10:03 AM
    #213
    John175

    John175 Not Sure

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    I **think*** the throttle control is active but you lose T/H shift schedule control, wide open throttle shift timing control and AI-Shift control.

    So the throttle is spunky but any shifting by the T/H is overridden.
     
  4. Mar 24, 2021 at 10:07 AM
    #214
    realprotundra

    realprotundra Always Skeptical

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    That is my understanding as well. This would lead me to believe that T/H mode in D would control transmission temperature how the Toyota engineers wanted it to be controlled. Again, not sure though, I wish we had a Toyota engineer on hand to give a better answer to the question of "What transmission mode should we be in when towing?"
     
  5. Mar 24, 2021 at 10:20 AM
    #215
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Mother-Loving Member

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    Maybe put it in D and T/H when accelerating then shift to S4 once you're at speed on the highway to keep the temperature from climbing?
     
  6. Mar 24, 2021 at 10:26 AM
    #216
    14burrito

    14burrito IG @14burrito

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    How can you expect someone to give a generalization for something that has damn near infinite variables?

    Especially when going into Sequential mode limits the highest gear, how can you expect Toyota to give a recommendation that would be applicable to one and all?

    IMO, they build their answer into the AI programming. Once thresholds and alarms are reached the powertrain goes into different mapping and safe mode if necessary.

    Starting page 197 of your owners manual is when they start giving you all the info they can regarding towing.
     
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  7. Mar 24, 2021 at 10:27 AM
    #217
    Professional Hand Model

    Professional Hand Model A.K.A ‘Golden Hands’

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  8. Mar 24, 2021 at 10:39 AM
    #218
    realprotundra

    realprotundra Always Skeptical

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    I would expect that the engineers who designed the system (hardware, software, etc.) would be able to provide that information. Whether it is a single recommendation or a "use this mode in this condition, use that mode in that condition, etc." type of best practices manual would be up to them.

    Edit: The issue is at this point that we really have no clue as to what Toyota wants us to be doing other than to use S4 when you require additional engine braking.

    It seems based on your post that T/H in Drive would be the best practice as it would allow the AI programming to control as necessary.
     
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  9. Mar 24, 2021 at 11:02 AM
    #219
    tttrdpro

    tttrdpro Former Naval Person

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    Answer me this: If tow/haul is not active in S mode, why does the manual say you should tow in S4?
     
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  10. Mar 24, 2021 at 11:05 AM
    #220
    Vizsla

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    This is from tuning software, only get access to things pertinent for tuning. There is no table available for s-mode, only flex-lock schedule, so nothing to compare just looking at it. Im old and not very tech savvy, just enjoy tinkering.

    If I change this Tow/Haul shift schedule

    EB3BEF96-5C94-4EE2-9AC1-F2677377AEDF.jpg

    Using 4-5 shift for example - looks like this

    00F2DA5E-FD8E-41B4-9158-AEEB870ADF1E.jpg

    To this

    6F21C525-D5CF-484B-A9BB-006BDF043E6C.jpg

    Now when I turn on Tow/Haul in s-mode *poof* gear lock. Couldn’t find a real world use for it though.
     
  11. Mar 24, 2021 at 11:09 AM
    #221
    AZBoatHauler

    AZBoatHauler Desert Dweller

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    Can you post the shift schedule for the same shift in regular mode (not T/H)?
     
  12. Mar 24, 2021 at 11:14 AM
    #222
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Mother-Loving Member

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    I think the failure lies with whoever wrote the owner's manual. It tells me which button to press to turn on auto LSD but not a word about what it does, how it works or when or why to use it and that's a comparatively simple system.
     
  13. Mar 24, 2021 at 11:20 AM
    #223
    Vizsla

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    E58635B9-F585-4EF4-8B64-AE43A8A21554.jpg
     
  14. Mar 24, 2021 at 11:22 AM
    #224
    realprotundra

    realprotundra Always Skeptical

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    That is not what the manual says though. It says to use S4 if you need additional engine braking.

    I completely agree. I do however understand the need for "trade secrets" beyond patenting technology and believe that it is likely Toyota not wanting to give their competitors too much information about how the systems work and interact.
     
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  15. Mar 24, 2021 at 11:29 AM
    #225
    timsp8

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    E075ED31-2FEE-4CAB-A79F-28B97CA0E5F7.jpg
     
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  16. Mar 24, 2021 at 11:32 AM
    #226
    tttrdpro

    tttrdpro Former Naval Person

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    You’re right but why would the manual say to use S4 under any conditions while towing if S mode negated tow/haul? It’s counter intuitive.
     
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  17. Mar 24, 2021 at 11:32 AM
    #227
    AZBoatHauler

    AZBoatHauler Desert Dweller

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    Thanks!! I can track my live throttle input on my head unit so if I get the truck up to operating temp set it in tow/haul S5 and hold my throttle input at 50% I’ll be able to see what shift schedule the truck is using in S mode. T/H shift from 4-5 will occur at 5,400 while regular shift schedule should occur somewhere under 4,825. Now I just need the time to do this test.

    ETA I might need a lower gear shift point. Anyone know how fast 5,400 RPM in 4th gear is??

    :boom::eek2:
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
  18. Mar 24, 2021 at 11:39 AM
    #228
    jtwags

    jtwags Concrete jungle

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    I have experienced the same results while tracking my trans temps towing a tt. I even did the pinning and unpinning of the thermostat to see if it helped at operating temp. I found using S mode in 4 or 5 plus tow/haul and having the thermostat pinned open kept my temps sub 200 consistently when towing in texas summers. I easily surpassed 230 pan temps towing in D with tow/haul. Usually because tc was unlocked and constantly shifting between 5 and 6 to maintain cruise. This is with a 2018 4x4cm 5.7.
     
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  19. Mar 24, 2021 at 11:43 AM
    #229
    realprotundra

    realprotundra Always Skeptical

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    I unfortunately have no answer for you and agree that it is counter intuitive. In theory TH mode should take care of the necessary additional engine braking/downshifting through the AI-Shift protocol. Then again, we really don't know what exactly the AI-Shift protocol does. We do however know for a fact that AI-Shift is deactivated in S mode based on that being clearly laid out in the FSM.

    Edit: To throw another wrench in the works, we know that the ECU design was changed for the 2019+ model year so we also don't even know if TH/S/D/AI is even the same from 2014-2018 and 2019+.
     
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  20. Mar 24, 2021 at 11:59 AM
    #230
    Vizsla

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    2018 has the larger ECU also. I agree though, have no idea what changes year to year.
     
  21. Mar 24, 2021 at 12:19 PM
    #231
    Mad Max

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    Everything I have is always for sale. Love the boat but it has catalyst on the engine which are very$$$$$. California and EPA idiots have killed the inboard/sterndrive engine option. In order to reduce chance of failure I will probably sell boat and go with a boat with an outboard motor. That or go early 2000 inboard but they have their own demons with rot etc. FYI I have been on countless boats. The smallest boat that goes 40 mph and is reliable and you are enjoying 98% of the boating experience moving to 98.1% or higher get very very very expensive. Once you jump above 20 feet the hassle of towing and docking starts to increase exponentially also. If you think you are rich buy an offshore boat you will realize how poor you are, lol
     
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  22. Mar 24, 2021 at 12:24 PM
    #232
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Mother-Loving Member

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    My dad's still running one of these (1986) with a Suzuki 140 hp outboard on it. (Picture from Google.)

    $_27.jpg
     
  23. Mar 24, 2021 at 12:36 PM
    #233
    brown_subaru

    brown_subaru New Member

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    The manual also says to not exceed 65 mph while towing on a flat, straight, dry road. So it’s possible Toyota assumed that speed limit is followed when they set up T/H mode and possibly even when they determined acceptable transmission temperatures. All bets are off when towing faster than 65 mph.

    Edit: At full towing capacity and/or payload.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
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  24. Mar 24, 2021 at 2:04 PM
    #234
    Mad Max

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    Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he is 98% there each .01% more is about $20K-50k more.
     
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  25. Mar 24, 2021 at 2:26 PM
    #235
    Cpl_Punishment

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    I'd argue he's 100% there because you can't buy an equivalent boat any more (mostly because of the oversized engine).
     
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  26. Mar 24, 2021 at 2:32 PM
    #236
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    And just like that...boom. Here after all this time I thought you were in fact a Viking. Little does one know....you’re Gandalf the grey.
     
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  27. Mar 24, 2021 at 3:17 PM
    #237
    Mad Max

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    I had a Starcraft medallist 1601 bow rider with an 140hp mercruiser. I would argue I had equivalent if not more power per lb and I felt I was 98%. The other 2% is obtained from size and comfort and able to run through heavy chop. Again my power to weight ratio was same as a 38 poker run edition but I sure couldn't do 70 mph through 3 foot seas, lol. Both his and mine were/are great boats. I moved to a searay 205 with 5.0 mpi' (260 hp) and it is also overpowered. I switched out stock prop to mercruiser high 5 (5 blades) to knock the top end below 60 as the haul would just float. I now roll at 57 mph but can pull trees out of the ground lol. I now at 98.01% but now have 20 alarms that can go off at any time lol. I do miss the smell of ether
     
  28. Mar 24, 2021 at 4:29 PM
    #238
    Cpl_Punishment

    Cpl_Punishment Mother-Loving Member

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    We use our boats differently. My family is never on the ocean and it's an advantage to us to have a small light boat that 1) my dad and I can easily load and unload and move around by hand and 2) gets up out of the water quickly when you're waterskiing.

    If I had to buy a new boat to replace it, I'd be torn between taking the 25 hp hit to stay with a 16 footer or going up to 18 feet to stay in the 140-150 hp range.
     
  29. Mar 24, 2021 at 5:38 PM
    #239
    Vizsla

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    I wasted some time today. But know how the Hoe/Tall mode and that s-stuff work on my truck. Lol.
     
  30. Apr 7, 2021 at 7:28 PM
    #240
    Jtundra81

    Jtundra81 Just a member

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    That is weird , when I tow my 4000lb travel trailer , as long as I am on s4 and tow haul I average 215 on pan , it will climb if I shift to s5 , I keep the tc locked when on s4 and keep it at 60mph
     

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