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2020 LandCruiser comes with transmission cooler, why not Tundra?

Discussion in '2.5 Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by sabet, Mar 14, 2021.

  1. Mar 19, 2021 at 8:42 PM
    #91
    TILLY

    TILLY Gently Used Member

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    I did read your post, that's why I replied. In your initial post you said "I can speak from first hand experience the lack of the actual cooler on 2019 and 2020 tundras will result in transmission failure." My question for you is how you came to this conclusion when the dealership didn't?
     
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  2. Mar 19, 2021 at 8:44 PM
    #92
    327Tundra

    327Tundra New Member

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    Post 191
     
  3. Mar 19, 2021 at 8:46 PM
    #93
    327Tundra

    327Tundra New Member

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    There’s only one problem with them offering me an extended warranty I already purchased one when I bought the vehicle still waiting on Toyota corporate to let me know what they’re going to actually offer me to make it right
     
  4. Mar 19, 2021 at 8:49 PM
    #94
    TILLY

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    That proves nothing, what was your last Tundra. Post 196
     
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  5. Mar 19, 2021 at 8:56 PM
    #95
    327Tundra

    327Tundra New Member

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    2013 SR5 crew max on 35s pulling 3000 to 3500 pound enclosed trailer five days a week and once a month pulling a 33 foot Jayco travel trailer bumper pull across four states for a little over five years and not one single transmission problem also one time and I won’t ever do it again I pulled a triple axle 36 foot loader trailer with a 78K5 Blazer that had 44 inch Tsl and one ton axles on it For a little over 400 miles that’s when I seen a spike in temperature of 210
     
  6. Mar 19, 2021 at 9:09 PM
    #96
    TILLY

    TILLY Gently Used Member

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    One final question, and this one is very important. Did the Toyota dealership directly tell you that the lack of an auxiliary cooler, was in fact the reason for your trans failure? Yes or no.
     
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  7. Mar 19, 2021 at 9:17 PM
    #97
    327Tundra

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    They had no other explanation besides that the transmission got too hot and it appears it happened from the lack of an external cooler hopefully this helps you have a good night
     
  8. Mar 19, 2021 at 9:23 PM
    #98
    TILLY

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    Are you sure? It didn't say that on the summary of the work order you posted. And yes my night is good, thanks. :thumbsup:
     
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  9. Mar 19, 2021 at 9:25 PM
    #99
    ColoradoTJ

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    Thanks for answering the many questions this evening. Some people are concerned about this issue (I am with them on this one), others are not concerned, and some can’t believe Toyota would make a large oofff size mistake.

    For the owner that tows every day, I would be enjoying my new transmission and installing one of the trans cooler kits.
     
  10. Mar 19, 2021 at 9:31 PM
    #100
    Terndrerrr

    Terndrerrr guzzling dealer repellent

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    Dang. Sorry to see this, man. This has been a very hotly debated topic on this site. You’re the first to show up with burnt fluid in a truck without a factory cooler. As you can see, this has ruffled some feathers.

    As much as I love Toyota, I’ve always thought this was a cost cutting decision that wasn’t made with long term reliability in mind. It sucks this happened to your truck. I’m glad they took care of you, and I’m glad there is now at least one case # filed where a truck with burnt transmission fluid and no external cooler had to have its transmission replaced.
     
  11. Mar 19, 2021 at 9:40 PM
    #101
    TILLY

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    Sorry to be the "bad guy" here tonight, but where exactly is the proof that this was caused by the lack of the cooler, and not just a defective transmission?
     
  12. Mar 19, 2021 at 10:03 PM
    #102
    ColoradoTJ

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    You’re not the “bad guy”, but more of someone researching more to have rock solid proof. I don’t think you will find it here in this thread. He gave you the year, how many miles, had burnt fluid, and lost the two overdrive gears. He does tow daily and sometimes on weekends. This is what we know. Now what the failure was from in an engineering standpoint would have to be determined elsewhere outside the dealership.

    Some assumptions:

    -low mileage truck, could be a failure inside transmission. This could cause excessive heat. Could not be trans cooler related at all.

    -improper use of equipment. This most likely isn’t the case since I can be pretty sure the technician checked vehicle history or sent a file out for analysis before granting warranty coverage.

    -Could in fact be a case of proper use and transmission failed from excessive high transmission temperatures due to the lack of a front mounted cooler.

    I posted what a Toyota Tundra Engineer said about this topic. Figured that would be enough. This is also not the first case according to said engineer.
     
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  13. Mar 19, 2021 at 10:04 PM
    #103
    RyeHog

    RyeHog New Member

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    I’m voting that since you’re in the minority since there isn’t a new transmission failure every 4 hours being posted. I just like to imagine how many millions of 3rd gen tundras are on the road, now imagine how many actually buy a device to monitor transmission temps and do regular service on the transmission, and finally imagine all the people who don’t monitor temps or do any type of maintenance on the transmission. I would think there would be a lot more posts about failing transmissions in the 3rd gens. There is a post almost every day saying “ 220F!!! These temps are unacceptable while not towing!!” But my question is why are they unacceptable if they aren’t causing an issue? I know my grandpas cars used to need rebuilds every 60k miles, they made 170hp and got 8mpg, trans fluid would be toast above 210F, and they needed an oil change every 3 months or 3k miles. But it’s not 1960 anymore.
     
  14. Mar 19, 2021 at 10:14 PM
    #104
    ColoradoTJ

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    The number isn’t “millions” either. Toyota started this no front mounted cooler in 2019. Nonetheless, there is about one million 3rd Tundra trucks made since 2014.

    We are only 230k+ trucks into this no trans cooler production run.

    BF0C9E1C-F3B5-4DBF-BA17-6ED454CBA3D6.jpg
     
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  15. Mar 19, 2021 at 10:17 PM
    #105
    ColoradoTJ

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    Also something to consider. This site is growing at a rather fast rate. We are still a very small sample of these 2019-2021 trucks out on the road.
     
  16. Mar 19, 2021 at 10:20 PM
    #106
    Terndrerrr

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    I’d be interested in hearing what Toyota finds out from that failed transmission. Surely they won’t just scrap it without taking a peek?
     
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  17. Mar 20, 2021 at 4:59 AM
    #107
    gdiep

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    I was in a similar situation where I purchased a warranty when I bought the truck but had the cam tower leak at 25k ish miles. Toyota reimbursed me what I paid for their warranty, basically giving it to me for free.
     
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  18. Mar 20, 2021 at 5:02 AM
    #108
    1UP

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    Atl least @327Tundra opinion is rooted in his trucks failure and has real life experience pre/post cooler removal to formulate this opinion. Lot of folks on both sides of this conversation in here only have their best guess based off their loose understanding of engineering.

    If it was me in this senario I'd probably come to the same conclusion.

    Brain teaser:

    Question 1. A plane is on a conveyor belt which, when turned on, moves the plane backwards at a speed equal to the normal take-off speed of the plane. If the pilot uses the normal amount of throttle and other controls, can the plane take off?

    Question 2. A plane is on a conveyor belt which, when turned on, moves the plane backwards. The belt speed is controlled and it can move sufficiently fast that, with respect to the ground, the plane never moves forwards. Can the plane take off?
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
  19. Mar 20, 2021 at 5:15 AM
    #109
    gdiep

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    I like Toyotas. My father only bought them or Lexus. They have been very reliable overall for me. But my 14 has had a few problems including the cam tower leak. So Toyota is not infallible. I subscribe to the theory of Occam’s razor so I believe the simplest outcome of removing a cooler is that it doesn’t cool as well as if it had one. If you work the transmission hard, it will get hot. If it gets hot enough, you’re likely to have breakdowns. Simple. I still believe in Toyota products. I’ve been holding out on buying a new truck, waiting to see if the new model will have higher payload capacity even though I know it is likely to have teething pains.
     
  20. Mar 20, 2021 at 5:40 AM
    #110
    Bakershack

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    The answer to both Brain Teaser questions is NO, absolutely not. No forward motion = no airflow under the wings = no lift.

    That said, I am closely monitoring the main topic of conversation on this thread.
     
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  21. Mar 20, 2021 at 5:41 AM
    #111
    1UP

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    Incorrect. https://youtu.be/xUjcHW7SHaI
     
  22. Mar 20, 2021 at 5:59 AM
    #112
    Bakershack

    Bakershack Critical of Noncritical Thinkers

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    HA! I didn't watch the video, but your posting of it prompted me to think a bit more deeply about it.

    Question 1: A plane is on a conveyor belt which, when turned on, moves the plane backwards at a speed equal to the normal take-off speed of the plane. If the pilot uses the normal amount of throttle and other controls, can the plane take off?

    Answer: Yes. The source of thrust for the plane is not in driving the wheels, which are just turning as a result of friction with the runway. This is irrelevant to whether the plane achieves lift velocity. The plane, using props or jets, will still accelerate but the wheels will just end up turning twice as fast due to the reverse motion of the runway. Lift velocity will be achieved and the plane will take off.

    Question 2: A plane is on a conveyor belt which, when turned on, moves the plane backwards. The belt speed is controlled and it can move sufficiently fast that, with respect to the ground, the plane never moves forwards. Can the plane take off?

    Answer: This conveyor is a theoretical impossibility due to the fact that the airplane's thrust is not generated from driving the wheels. However, if a conveyor could move that fast and support the plane, it could eventually heat up the bearings in the wheels causing them to fail before the plane lifts off. If this happens, the plane would have to generate significantly more thrust to overcome the added friction of the conveyor on locked up wheels.

    DON'T ASK ME TO THINK THIS EARLY IN THE MORNING!!!! :monocle:
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
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  23. Mar 20, 2021 at 6:24 AM
    #113
    327Tundra

    327Tundra New Member

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    Good morning everybody just thought I would give an update. I picked the truck up from the dealer new transmission is installed and all finished still waiting to hear from Toyota corporate on a definite answer of why the transmission failed but I will tell you drove 18 miles from dealership to home for approximately 10 miles of the journey I was running at 70 miles an hour with no trailer just myself in the vehicle and transmission temperatures at the pan registered a constant 230 to 235 for the last 8 miles speeds never went over 45 due to conditions of roads and temperatures were between 218 and 220
     
  24. Mar 20, 2021 at 6:38 AM
    #114
    Professional Hand Model

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    Buy an External Transmission Cooler guys and be done with it.

    The 2002 External Cooler cools so well it needs a Temperature Control Valve to bypass the Cooler in order to bring up the temps in winter driving. In summer, fluid temp never goes over 180° when towing.


    Just do it or you’ll end up in Therapy worrying about this for the rest of your life!:rofl:
     
  25. Mar 20, 2021 at 6:42 AM
    #115
    327Tundra

    327Tundra New Member

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    You are 100% correct I’m about to lose my mind over this there is nothing about this that makes any sense especially considering the field officer for Toyota corporate told the dealership they would not approve installing the factory Toyota parts for the trans cooler because that would be considered modifying the vehicle but also they told the dealership if i wanted to purchase The factory parts and have the dealership install them it would not void my warranty I guess common sense isn’t too common these days
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
  26. Mar 20, 2021 at 6:52 AM
    #116
    gdiep

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    Have them reimburse you for the warranty you paid for. Use the money to install the cooler.
     
  27. Mar 20, 2021 at 6:53 AM
    #117
    Professional Hand Model

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    Since taking over maintenance on the 2002, I’ve recently discovered an actual ‘drain and fill’ on her takes about 4.5qts. A few mechanics here confirm this along with members who do their maintenance.

    Problem is the 2002 Manual Book says a ‘drain and fill’ is 2.1qts.

    I called Corporate last year and brought this up. The cute sounding girl said she’d talk with an engineer while I held the phone. She got back and told me that the 2.1qts is the correct amount. There have been no revisions.

    Regardless, I fill 4.5qts.
     
  28. Mar 20, 2021 at 6:59 AM
    #118
    ColoradoTJ

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    I may have to look for something like this for my Allison. When it's cold out, I can see 70* pan temps after long drives. That's a little cool for me. I like the temps you see in the winter.
     
  29. Mar 20, 2021 at 7:00 AM
    #119
    timsp8

    timsp8 Former Tundra owner for 13 years

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    Toyota isn’t going to tell you that the lack of an external auxiliary cooler made your transmission fail. That would be admitting they were wrong to remove it and they would have people like the OP trying to sue them. I’m sure they were careful in what they told the dealer to put on your service order sheet.

    In one of the other threads, there was a discussion that Toyota said the fluid was fine running at 270/280 and the atf overheat light doesn’t come on until 302.
     
  30. Mar 20, 2021 at 7:00 AM
    #120
    327Tundra

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    Gdiep that is my plan I am just waiting to hear back from Toyota corporate I spoke with them yesterday afternoon and they stated they will have a definite answer for me if they are going to have the dealer install the factory parts or not the extended warranty offer was made by the field officer and I told the dealership I would let them know once Toyota corporate gave me an answer hopefully by Monday or Tuesday afternoon at the latest
     

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