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2019 2020 transmission cooler missing

Discussion in '3rd Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by sgtfluffy16, Aug 10, 2020.

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  1. Aug 20, 2020 at 8:31 PM
    #871
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy New Member

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    Doesn't GM leave a "water mark" on the ecu if you run a tune?
     
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  2. Aug 20, 2020 at 8:36 PM
    #872
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    All manufacturers do now. It used to be easier, or just swap out ECM's. I can no longer do that on the year DM I have.

    Ever since 2012, it is required to have a black box on all vehicles. No way around it unless you buy a vehicle much older. Some manufacturers had a black box long before it was required.
     
  3. Aug 20, 2020 at 8:38 PM
    #873
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    Removing cooler had to be tested thoroughly. Could have been multiple permutations. They may have also tried different material configs in transmissions.

    maybe they weren’t planning on making the change until the Refrige changes.

    Until that time they left cooler on.

    it sounds to me actually like they wanted to or planned to remove cooler for a while but thought it was best packaged with the Refrige change.

    edit... mike sweers or any other technical employee can only divulge so much information. The truck market is as competitive as the cell phone market.

    Even divulging fluid capabilities could be problematic. Especially if it’s a special trade secret protected fluid like Ws.

    Just playing devil advocate.

    I’m researching my own cooler option right now...
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
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  4. Aug 20, 2020 at 8:39 PM
    #874
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy New Member

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    Even at the Toyota dealership tech level there is very little information that's given to techs regarding the black box info. Techstream can't even tell if there is a tune installed.
     
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  5. Aug 20, 2020 at 8:46 PM
    #875
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ O'Keefe Music Foundation Staff Member

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    Same with GM. The ECM needs to have a "screen shot" sent into the engineering department. Techs don't get that level of software opportunity. Same with most things like General Electric Mark VI controllers. As an operator/technician I can only get into the program so far. I have met some pretty high level GE EE that don't even have Level 4 access (I have up to level 2).
     
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  6. Aug 20, 2020 at 8:49 PM
    #876
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy New Member

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    I just feel they decide to remove it because their experience with the non tow package Tundras showed no failure rates higher than any other Tundra. The fact is most do not tow with their Tundra or challenge the transmission significantly. Like you said previously, modify the trans software so TC lock up occurs more often and temps should be low enough to not cause any harm. Personally I believe that temps up to 220-230F are not going to be a problem but if your pulling a heavy load up a steep grade for a significant distance your going to see temps north of 250f which is a concern.
     
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  7. Aug 20, 2020 at 8:58 PM
    #877
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy New Member

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    I've watch this video and others he has done and he seems knowledgable but his comment on WS is speculation. The fact is nobody really know the spec on WS.
     
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  8. Aug 20, 2020 at 9:00 PM
    #878
    Tundrafan23

    Tundrafan23 New Member

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    Fluids have evolved and gotten better as time goes on as well, I think it would be naive to think that WS fluid of 2007 is the exact same as WS fluid of 2020.
     
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  9. Aug 20, 2020 at 9:06 PM
    #879
    Tundrafan23

    Tundrafan23 New Member

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    Do you realize how easy it would be for Toyota to make this claim? All they have to say is the customer added an unapproved aftermarket component directly to the ATF cooling system and you are done. You can try to bring a lawsuit against them citing Magnuson-Moss Act, but that will likely cost you about 25x more than a complete new transmission.
     
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  10. Aug 20, 2020 at 9:20 PM
    #880
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy New Member

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    But nobody really knows for sure. You can't say that WS is good to 300f and I can't say that it's not. What would be a safe high operating range? :notsure:
     
  11. Aug 20, 2020 at 11:11 PM
    #881
    Sumo91

    Sumo91 Somewhat new member

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    For the love of God this thread had run more circles than a nascar race.... If blackstone labs is open tomorrow I'm going to give them a call and ask them if I send in a "mystery" transmission fluid, if they can tell me at what temp it starts to break down, along with all the properties. If they cant perform that test, I'll ask them if they know of anyone who can. This would be the quickest way to get an answer. At this point I'm more than willing to shell out the money for this just to bring all this speculation about WS to an end :annoyed:
     
  12. Aug 20, 2020 at 11:37 PM
    #882
    pickeledpigsfeet

    pickeledpigsfeet New Member

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    Me too. Here is the end of a 1.5 hour commute from sea level to 3500ft in 107-100F temps. Snapped the pic near the end up the last long grade, which would usually give me 240F in the pan.

    This was with a 1k lbs cab over camper in the bed.



    5902DFCB-0CA3-4107-8547-7BBEB803D9EA.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  13. Aug 21, 2020 at 3:32 AM
    #883
    tttrdpro

    tttrdpro Former Naval Person

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    This thread was entertaining for a while. Now it’s just sad.
     
  14. Aug 21, 2020 at 3:43 AM
    #884
    Bammer

    Bammer I'm disinclined to acquiesce your request.

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    AGREED Arguing with little to no true facts and tons of speculation.
     
  15. Aug 21, 2020 at 4:35 AM
    #885
    hagrid

    hagrid Ich habe sie gespritzt

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    Good Lord, I hope not. Need to save money for fuel.
    Quite right, my stalwart comrades.

    Let the search for Rock Solid evidence continue without delay!!
     
  16. Aug 21, 2020 at 4:50 AM
    #886
    Dragracer_Art

    Dragracer_Art Well armed member

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    The other thing Ive noticed is the IAT's are pretty warm sometimes. I may experiment with an air duct from the grille area to the airbox.
    Once rolling down the road for 20 minutes... IAT's settle a few degrees above ambient... but when I was in my truck yesterday at lunchtime, idling for 30min... IAT's were at 129 degrees.

    Screenshot_20200821-075538_Gallery.jpg

    Sorry for the hijack.

    To address trans temps...
    I agree that Toyota probably feels fine with the elevated trans temps.
    Personally, I do not.
    Not with a truck that can otherwise tow 10k lbs without too much issue... and is already running unloaded temps exceeding what is normally seen when towing a heavy load.

    I will throw a cooler on mine using the factory proven parts from Toyota and I will sleep better at night knowing Ive probably extended the usable lifespan of my transmission.
    Im not comfortable taking the "wait and see" approach... because if it becomes a problem after "waiting and seeing"... its already too late and the truck will likely be well beyond the powertrain warranty period.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
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  17. Aug 21, 2020 at 5:06 AM
    #887
    rebmo

    rebmo 2020 Crewmax Limited 4wd Silver/Black

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    As long as the seals and clutch can withstand exposure to those temperatures? For how long? You can change the fluid for a reasonable cost. Rebuilt transmission cost?

    More heat = shorter life is what I’ve read on transmissions so I went with a cooler out of caution. Others may be comfortable with the higher temperatures being reported.
     
  18. Aug 21, 2020 at 5:19 AM
    #888
    Dragracer_Art

    Dragracer_Art Well armed member

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    This has always been "the standard" and nothing has changed other than better quality fluids.
    Heat = bad and has always been detrimental to the life of a transmission.

    Toyota does not have alien rubber compound technology or fancy fluid from another galaxy.
    The trans will likely be fine at the elevated temps. Fine enough to get beyond the warranty period... and beyond that is of no concern to Toyota.

    So yeah... I totally agree with you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
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  19. Aug 21, 2020 at 5:28 AM
    #889
    timsp8

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    07-mid 10 was the separate cooler. If they knew back then, they could’ve kept the separate cooler. I think once the govt said change to the new Freon, they tested and knew it wouldn’t work with the cooler in the condenser. So like you said, there weren’t a lot of failures in the warranty period and the truck is on its way out, so they decided to just remove it rather than design a new one. Even on here, we are probably less than 0.1% of all tundra owners. Most don’t tow and don’t even know the cooler isn’t there.
     
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  20. Aug 21, 2020 at 5:29 AM
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    Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Artifact, relic hunter, and mineral collector

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  21. Aug 21, 2020 at 5:30 AM
    #891
    timsp8

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    Didn’t he say 280 on that video that’s now gone? Or someone from Toyota.
     
  22. Aug 21, 2020 at 5:32 AM
    #892
    Bammer

    Bammer I'm disinclined to acquiesce your request.

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    My father towed with a 79 Mercury Monarch and a 78 Olds delta 88, fire wood, motorcycles, small camper, junk runs etc etc.. Maybe 5000 lbs for a max throughout the lifetime of these vehicles (from to CT to the Berkshire mountains just about every weekend), they both made it past 170,000 before the body's rotted to shit. Not cooler, older "conventional" fluids and 0 transmission issues. Yet my old 90 K2500HD with towing package burned up 3 transmissions in 2 years, which I tried to lemon law and failed. FWIW
     
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  23. Aug 21, 2020 at 5:36 AM
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    drowhawk

    drowhawk New Member

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    Just for reference I talked to my dealer's service manager before installing the cooler. He basically said, "We're not going to deny a warranty claim based on a cooler being installed." I buy a lot of wholesale parts from this dealer as they are Toyota, Lexus, Infiniti, Kia, Maserati, Alfa, VW, and Nissan. They are a big dealer and do the majority of Toyota sales/service for our area. They also confirmed that TIS new car features mentions nothing about the aux. cooler delete. Nothing.

    Folks this should be evidence enough that Toyota doesn't have a whole lot of empirical data to support their decision. It has been my experience that Toyota will do a ten page write up in new car features because they changed something as benign as a door hinge. They are happy to share at least the basic reasoning and technical data with service personnel regarding MY changes. I remember there being almost a two page write up in NCF in 2010 over why they changed the design of the tail lights on the Tundra to look more "muscular." Now there's a pretty sizeable change in the design of the cooling system that is supposedly accompanied by shift logic updates and new thermal management strategies? I call BS. Truck shifts absolutely no differently than my 2010 and doesn't lock up the TCC any sooner than the last truck did.
     
  24. Aug 21, 2020 at 5:43 AM
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    Bammer

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    That's nice and all, but I doubt he speaks for Toyota Corporate. The service manager at my dealer says everything has to be sent back to Toyota for warranty replacement verification and they are very thorough !
     
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  25. Aug 21, 2020 at 5:57 AM
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    drowhawk

    drowhawk New Member

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    Once the dealer has put the new transmission in and released the vehicle, it's their problem. They don't wait for corporate "analysis" before starting warranty work. If that was the case, it'd take 6 months to get stuff replaced under warranty because they'd have to analyze every single part.
     
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  26. Aug 21, 2020 at 5:58 AM
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    glowblue

    glowblue From time to time

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    Exactly. What the dealer says and what the manufacturer will do in warranty space are quite different!
     
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  27. Aug 21, 2020 at 5:59 AM
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    timsp8

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    I’ve had warranty work where they had to wait on Toyota to approve it. The dealer wants to make sure they will get reimbursed before they start work.
     
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  28. Aug 21, 2020 at 6:56 AM
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    Bammer

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    You think the dealer is going to get a 5,000 dollar transmission and pay a tech a day to R & R with out corporates approval?
     
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  29. Aug 21, 2020 at 7:08 AM
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    John175

    John175 Not Sure

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    Harumph!
     
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  30. Aug 21, 2020 at 7:19 AM
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    Kanobi13

    Kanobi13 New Member

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    How do you know this?
     
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