2019 2020 transmission cooler missing

ya'll are crazy. my trans temps look just like yours and I have an external cooler

My truck weighs 8000lbs and I beat the crap out of it in some of the harshest terrain on earth. My first trans fluid change was at 75k miles. It was a little dark, but not burnt. On the freeway my temps are 200f doing 75 mph. If I do 90 or go up a hill and the TC unlocks, the temps rise above 230f. In the desert bombing hard the temps are regularly above 220f. Thermostat doesnt open until 221f then the temps never get above 235ish

But its cute how you guys think you're smarter than Toyota engineers. Even when those engineers are hamstrung by bean counters they still pretty damn smart...

 

I fillled out my new truck survey today and asked why the truck didn't have one and should have been installed.

 

Haha. The Toyota tech that does my maintenance laughed at me, I wanted to change transmission fluid at 18k miles. Told me that’s nuts, replied nope hit tranny warning twice, told me still nuts. So I’m good

 

desert bombing in a truck check..trail bombing on a mtb check...the @osidepunker way..haha

 

many valid points and observations. One does have to wonder though, how high would the temps be in your truck in those actions without any external cooler. I agree our transmissions are far stronger than average by design, which is really nice

 

All I'm saying is no one is posting 300f trans temps so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. Besides, from what I understand the trans fluid is cooled by the engine coolant. Some kind of internal heat exchanger

 

On the newer trucks I mean

 

Longtime lurker first time poster. OP not sure if you have seen the below video but it seems to be getting a lot of traction so far. According the video poster Toyota told him their trans fluid is good up to 280F

 

cool story, since you have nothing to add to my thread since you don't own a 2019 or 2020 thread, you can delete your post and LEAVE my thread.

I did see this, waiting for an actual response. This guy doesn't have any real hard proof yet though. he has ALMOST as much as what i have.

 

did you do that at a toyota dealership? get it noted on an RO? take that fluid and send it to be analyzed with a company like "blackstone" this will have the fluid validity verified or proven that its degraded already

 

if they respond please let us all know here.

 

So here is information I've learned from this site as well as other sites. None of this is to indicate that there is or isn't an issue with the thermal management of the transmission.

• Toyota fluid temp limit for WS fluid is 280 F.
• High trans temp warning is 302F.
• There isn't, as of current date, a rash of transmission failures (AB60F series) in these trucks. And the few issues registered on this forum don't clearly indicate if it was strictly due to heat.
• Toyota tested the system without trans cooler on davis dam (an insanely tough transmission test route OEMs use every year) and it produced temps under their target.
• Other Toyota and Lexus models have similar trans temps limits (Lexus I think has 275F for a different transmission)
• On a Camry forum, someone logged trans temps and they stayed around 220F.

• Ford and GM late model trucks are experiencing higher transmission temps and that is with a cooler. The temps are in a similar range of 230-245F. They too have a warmer system and thermostat that manages the heat and keeps fluid temps elevated.

• Ram trucks have very low trans temps. The ZF has a temp limit of 248F. However Ram trucks engine oil is insanely high rarely dropping below 225F and usually parked around 230F unloaded. When towing temps hit 250F. High temp light is set at 265F. This is with a factory 203F coolant thermostat and an engine oil cooler.
• ...and even still there are many Ram bros that are very unsatisfied their trans temps are hitting 195F (!). Many are adding additional trans coolers to get temps at or below 160F. Yeah...umm...ok...
• Shift strategy programming and rear gearing plays a highly unsung role in managing trans temps. With the larger number of speeds in transmissions (6,7,8,10) the transmission can maintain torque converter (TC) lock up for a longer period. This keeps fluid out of shear and reduces heat generation from torque converter. Older transmissions with 3 and 4 and 5 speeds had to unlock frequently to get engine into a power band for a given load. Rear gearing can also increase or decrease the load. The steeper the ratio the lower the load on engine and transmission. Toyota's 4.30 gears are insanely steep for a production half ton truck. It also helps lower load on transmission and can enable engine to stay in gear longer. This helps transmission no lock/unlock alot. Case in point...fellow on Ram forum moved his trans temps down to 160 F range by adding 4.56 gears and a 180F thermostat. No additional transmission cooler; no tuning change.

All this to say I'd feel more comfortable with a cooler. Even if it was a small cooler to manage temps below 250F.

Edit:

I also wonder if measurement error is at play here. It may be the case that the temps are reading higher than they actually are. I may try shooting trans pan temps and seeing if its off.

Also...this sort of reminds me of when OEMs started using 5w30 and 5w20 and now 0-20 and even 0-16. People were losing their minds over the thin oil when they'd used 10w40 their whole life.

 

I agree. It sounds like those kids that accidently down shift in their car and post about OMG I hit 7500 RPMs is my car going to blow up lol. I do hope that Toyota at least calms their nerves by reassuring them that their truck isn't a ticking time bomb.

 

great info to share. But is it word of mouth? or actual proof on some of your bullets? I can confirm 1 of them ( high trans temp is at 302F )

Im working on PROOF from exxon mobile for the WS fluid. in my opinion other vehicles do not compare to a tundra. BUTTTT if you want to use that. 2020 f150 ecoboost. towing a 24 ft travel trailer over 8000k loaded, trans temps are under 220.

 

I encourage you to continue your own research on the issue. I know I've learned alot. The Ram information is from a 2017 ram rebel with 5.7 and 3.92 gears and found similar issues on multiple forums.

The veracity of the information is the same as it is here. If you want a university engineering dpt funded research project with peer reviewed articles then you will be disappointed forever.

read here as an example of the many many many threads discussing this issue on other oem forums

https://www.f150forum.com/f118/transmission-temperature-412775/

https://www.f150ecoboost.net/threads/transmission-temps-how-hot-is-too-hot.15702/

https://www.f150ecoboost.net/threads/transmission-temps.79514/

https://www.crossroadsowners.com/forums/f44/transmission-temp-chevy-silverado-11709.html

https://www.silveradosierra.com/transmission/transmission-temp-t699760.html

 

The reason I said you probably wouldn't need to worry about transmission problems if you're using the truck as a daily driver is that Toyota has been also been selling the 4.6L/A760 without external cooler configuration for years without any notable transmission issues. But, after 2013, Toyota has implied that the 4.6L should not be used as a tow vehicle in stock configuration (no tow package offered).

The A760 transmission is not identical to the 5.7L AB60 transmission, but it should be nearly identical in the amount of operational heat it develops. If you're towing heavy, you should worry about transmission problems; if you're not, then your transmission may outlive typical duration of ownership.

When I started shopping Tundras, I was totally naive about 4.6L/5.7L engine displacement, tow packages, and external fluid coolers. When I saw the hitch receiver and trailer receptacles on the rear bumper, I assumed the truck had a "tow package". The salesman informed me that the truck did not have a tow package. I just didn't know what Toyota called a "tow package".

My previous truck had pre-dated "tow packages", and I had simply added what I needed to make it a tow vehicle. Since I had bought my 4.6L to tow/haul if/when I needed to, it was only later I realized I would need to retrofit an external cooler for the automatic transmission. (My previous truck was a 5 speed manual transmission, no cooler necessary.) Retrofitting a cooler was simply a technical problem to be solved and this subject has been beat to death here by others (including myself)...the parts and procedures are now well defined.

You can think you've been "lied to" if you want, but technically you have not been deceived: the warmer becomes an inadequate "cooler" once fluid temp exceeds coolant temp. Owners of 2019+ Tundras with the tow package sans external cooler may eventually benefit from a class action, but I wouldn't hold my breath (remember the frame rust fiasco?). Save your receipts for the cooler retrofit anyway.

Extended warranties are fine, but I wouldn't buy one to cover an obvious mechanical deficiency unless the coverage was forever. If you're towing heavy, the damage from fluid degradation will begin as soon as the first tow, and will continue until transmission problems, unless you change the degraded fluid regularly. Retrofit the cooler if you need to, but don't let the lack of external cooler keep you from driving the truck.

 

have you read the window sticker? it does say "tow package" and it does say "eng/trans fluid coolers"

I bought the warranty because i have a company truck. no way will i ever hit a warranty by mileage, i wanted to extend it by years. I tow with the truck and i use the truck as a weekend driver. i will drive the truck as much or as little as a want. but i wont not drive the truck because i'm worried about the transmission. I bought a warranty for a reason. Toyota is known for their reliability and will still stand by them for their reliability. But this was and is an engineering error (just like the front turn signal bulbs being pinned incorrectly). worst case after its looked at i will get it in writing on the RO (legal binding document) that i can add an external transmission cooler and it will not void or hinder my warranty when i use OEM toyota parts for the cooler.

 

Toyota WS ATF is supposedly good up to 280 degrees according to Tundra's chief engineer Mike Sweers. I highly doubt that Toyota risked the chance of having to replace costly transmissions in order to save a few dollars by removing trans coolers.

 

One time I went to HomeDepot and transported 500lbs of construction sand 8 miles. That's the extent of my harsh "towing". True story...

For those of you really using your Tundra to tow close to maximum weights, I hope you get resolution, either in the form of proof the current setup is fine or Toyota admitting they were wrong and doing something about it. I wouldn't hold my breath for either...

 

The trans cooler they speak of is incorporated into the radiator, so they technically aren't advertising something that isn't true.

 

Previous years the transmission cooler as integrated in the radiator. The Tow package should add an additional transmission cooler.
So to retrofit you would need to replace the radiator too. Or add one very large transmission cooler.

 

I think "dangerous" and "recall" are a stretch.

What makes you think ExxonMobil is going to share proprietary information on their fluid with you?

 

This is not the first thread to voice outrage over the removal of the trans cooler in 2019, and it won’t be the last.

I bought an OBD reader primarily so that I could help a buddy watch his 2019 temps compared to my 2018’s. I was surprised (and reported my surprise here in this site) at how differently the transmissions behaved, with mine never going above 226 no matter how I romped the gas or loaded the truck, and his ‘19 kept climbing.

It seemed like a real gamble for Toyota to pull that cooler.

It’s mid year 2020. Toyota is still at the top of the mountain where manufacturers are judged on reliability and longevity. They earned that place after DECADES of building trust and taking pride in their engineering and manufacturing processes and integrity.

Time will tell if eliminating the cooler will have negative consequences for the 2019 and up trucks. But if you believe -for a second- that Toyota is going to put the baby in the microwave to save a few dollars, I think you’re mistaken.

 

This isnt YOUR thread. You dont own this website. This is a public forum and I'll say what I want.

I dont own a 2019 or a 2020. I own a 2013 with a factory trans cooler built into my radiator. My point is that you are not posting temps that are radically different than the temps I am seeing. I inspected my fluid after 75k hard miles and it wasn't burnt.

But some people have nothing better to do with their life then to be unsatisfied. Do yourself a favor, sell the truck and buy another one. Its obvious you'll never be happy with this one

 

I am in agreeance with you. I have always been Toyota person and will still consider to stand by their product. They replace the frame on my 07 Tacoma because of the holes that rusted in it. What other manufacturer do you know that stands by their product 12 years after owning it? But I know, and I think that they will consider doing a tsp to add an external transmission cooler to the 2019 and 2020 Tundras. But as you stated, I don't think people have enough mileage on them yet to start burning up Transmissions. But I think when it does happen it's going to be a whole bunch of them all at once. I'm sure there's not many 2019 trucks out there yet with over 60,000 miles. Because shortly after that the Transmissions will start to go as the fluid is good for a hundred thousand miles, I don't talk so harshly. Usually just driving the truck around empty for the most part. But I do tow with it, and well under its gross rating.

 

Honestly, your "proof" is weak at best. I think the best course of action would be to press Toyota about the fact that a transmission cooler is noted on the sticker - yet, the way it is written "eng/trans fluid cooler" may be covered in some other way since it doesn't specify a stand alone transmission fluid cooler. Either way, I'll call.

 

I'm working on that at the moment. My ExxonMobil rep just told me that the information is proprietary. And Toyota has specifically not disclose that information for unknown reasons. But my rep he's going to attempt to get the information from Toyota to share to me or have Toyota share the information to me directly

 

PS, I'm not outraged over the removal of the transmission cooler. I'm just upset that they won't disclose information about their very own Vehicles especially when it comes to a reliability concern. But just as you have seen, and have first-hand proof that the 2018 and 2019 there are major transmission fluid temperature differences because of the removal of the external cooler

 

I have heard this by word of mouth. But nothing is set in stone buy a reputable source. However I do think it's funny that if the fluid is only good up to 280 degrees. Why is the high transmission warning temp set at 302 degrees?