1st Gen. Lunch Table - General Discussion

I don't recommend shopping at that dealership (Serra of Decatur). Serra of Birmingham (link) is great, though.

 

Sometimes I hate my job.

 

6 lug rock warriors?

 

I was wondering the same thing.
All I can think of are the Baja's and one version of the Trail Teams, that use the same TRD center caps as the Rock Warriors. But not the same design wheel from 5.to 6 lugs, unless I'm missing something.

 

Yes sir 6 lug Rock Warriors. More info here

Finish: Gunmetal Grey
-Dimensions: 17-inch by 7.5 inch
-Offset: +10mm
-Beadlock Styling and Machined Outer Lip
-And only 23.5lbs

 

Well, I'll be dipped in shit... They do exist!
Pretty neat. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Must be like hens teeth. Never seen a set in the wild.

 

Camber and toe seem simple enough, but why is it despite reading and watching videos on alignment and specifically caster, that I just feel more and more confused about caster?
Compound that confusion by the ability to adjust caster from both upper and lower control arms. Seems there's tons of misinformation on caster out there. The most basic of the fucking concept (negative caster vs positive caster) can't even seem to be agreed upon in some instances.
Since caster is an angle, it shouldn't be that complicated, but after hours and hours and nights uppon nights of learning about it, I just want to beat my head against the wall.
So many contradictions!!
So here's where I'm at...

Simple enough so far.

According to Solo, I can achieve up to a.full.inch forward on the LBJ for 2°-3° more caster and KP off-road, says to achieve that with their cam eliminators, set the front to neutral (hole centers at the bottom) and the rear to all the way outside. Ok simple enough. I still need to do this, as me and Casey set mine to neutral all around.

Nows where it gets really hairy and no one seems to be able to agree and even the manufacturer gives little to no help in the matter. Sure SPC gives you some specs, but not much direction on how to utilize them and no one agrees on how to go about them. Even with a picture, showing the degree changes and the position of the UBJ, relative to the front of the truck. Yet some will say position G moves the UBJ (and tire) closer to the cab. How the fuck does that make any sense???

As you can see, the UBJ itself is directly under the semi circle, and the picture would certainly agree, that E, F and G move the UBJ forward (away from cab) is going to do little to move the tire away from the cab, but increase the negativity of the caster angle.

Obviously moving the LBJ/LCA foreward is going to do more to move the tire away from the cab, but increase the positivity of the caster angle.

Or maybe I'm just retarded. Who the fuck knows... I'm so close to going out and buying a protractor and graph paper, because despite knowing some of these degree increments top and bottom, I'd like the know the exact angles in degrees. Decreasing the top (moving forward) should decrease the overall caster angle, if still in the positive overall caster on my particular set up, with the LCAs maxed forward.

So I see some mention the ideal caster is 2.5°-3°. so on my mind, if the LCAs add 2-3°, then depending on whatever the overall angles are, the top should be moved forward to equal things out. I'm already set to F on my SPCs if I recall correctly. I did this with the stock LCAs, because my 295/75r16 tires were rubbing the back of the wheel wells before at setting D. So I guess I may want to move my UBJs back one settle to E maybe, once I max out the Solo LCA caster.

Now y'all tell me how wrong I am.

 

Funny enough, just last weekend I saw a set of these on a 5th gen 4runner, think that might be the only time I've seen them.

 

I mean, I'm sitting here looking at them, read the article, and still don't believe they exist.

 

Yeah I forget that these exist! Super rare!

 

Without being able to measure these values you are just stabbing in the dark. You change one setting, and all the others move/change to some degree.

If I were you I would find an alignment shop that will work with you to get to the desired settings. Take them all the documentation (spc/solo/kp) for them to review.

or pickup something like this and get after it
https://quicktrickalignment.com/product/4thgen/

I built this setup based on the above concept

It all makes a lot more sense when you can make a change and then measure the real world value that produced.

 

I'm just going to set the cam eliminaters like KP off-road said to do, probably leave the SPC caster where I have it in F setting, then use my new digital angle finder,.some string, and a long level, to adjust camber and toe. If nothing else, I need to get it close enough to drive 30 minutes to Toy Lex. So Juan can get it perfected.

 

I wouldn't bother pulling any measurements like that, without a repeatable reference it means nothing. Just get it close and set the toe for the drive.

 

How accurate is the one you made? Have you done a comparison of the numbers between yours and an alignment shop?

 

I have not. The jig is just a repeatable reference for the measurements. Accuracy would be determined by good technique, math, and metrology equipment (angle finder)

I built the jig after knocking out of spec two professional alignments. Aint nobody got time to drop off their truck at the shop, find a ride(x2), fork over $125 only to slip an adjuster within a week beating on the truck.

Alignments like this are done on plenty of 200mph race cars. Good enough for me.

 

I use an old asian dude that charges less than half of that. Cash only and he doesn't fuss about the specs I want as long as I set up the parts for him to dial it in.

 

Negative caster is like a shopping cart wheel.


When adjusting caster at the top further forward (to the bumper) is negative and further back (to the cab) is positive.

When adjusting at the bottom further forward is positive and further back is negative.


Eric @alb1k had too much caster with solos and his upper arms. Like 5-6 degrees or something. He pulled it back to 4.5°. Iirc.


In any case. Since you have clearance issues and solo lowers and spc uppers, I'd max caster on the lowers with the lockouts and adjust with the uppers. IE, forward plates pointed inwards and rearwards outwards.


Actual caster to aim for is a matter of preference but anything from 2.6 to 4.5 seems like it may be acceptable. On stock arms and suspension, I prefer 2.8°. (2.6 is actually a stock seqouia spec fyi).

 

So what does too much caster do?

 

Depends on the suspension design. Typically makes the steering feel heavier (more effort to turn off center) and will want to keep the wheels centered if even.

It will loose grip in the corners if way excessive as it'll be lifting the contact patch off the ground when turned. (9+ degrees).

 

I wish he still came around so I could pick his brain. Not many people have this setup

 

Have you watched the latest tinkerer's adventure?

Yes it is primarily about wheel offset, but the caster portion really helps visualize what lowers vs uppers do with regards to clearance.

 

Yeah I watched it last night.

 

I officially baby my tundra. I was hesitant, but dad said a bumper ball would handle it.

Color me impressed.

 

Damn that's a big ass rock. You could make a bench out of that.

 

That's not your dad. That's you with gray hair.

 

i wouldnt do the he-man pose, i’ve got back muscles, so i’d do ‘the thinker or atlas’. Old man showed me that enough ‘gusto’ will work good enough with an open diff. Got some ‘ramps’ at the leading edge, gonna drag it with a stone boat. Kinda wanna stand it up outside my gate and put my numbers on it.
i’ll tell dad you’re into it.

Maybe a 2nd level table under the bar. With some led strips to help the folks blinded by dark to see their way.

 

My daughter lives in Santa Fe. She has a 2002 Tundra, and a mid-80s (1985, I think) Hilux Surf Hiro.

Can someone recommend a Toyota savy shop in Santa Fe, ABQ, or nearby? Thanks in advance!

 

Heck yeah, monolith obelisk!

 

Check out this camaro