1st Gen. Lunch Table - General Discussion

Do you guys remember awhile back the subject of unions and automation? We're getting ready to do our first conversion on autonomous operation of a very large piece of open-pit equipment. We've been able to remotely monitor all system functions for some years now and interface with the respective operator for immediate changes that may be necessary, but autonomous operation of equipment this size, and larger, is a whole new ballgame. No human operator required in the cab = less expensive = more profitable.

 

Autonomous or remotely operated? Not the same.

 

That's literally an example of someone losing their job to automation right? Scary shit.

 

Yes, that's a great point. They will be autonomous. We will still remotely monitor all system functions (e.g. temps of systems, pressures of systems, etc.). It's pretty incredible to watch on equipment this size. Lol.

 

Yes, in a sense it is. Someone will lose their job (an in-cab operator, for example), but someone else will gain one, external to the cab. It's cheaper and safer. My greater point is that it's coming. We're seeing it in this industry now.

 

Empty Lord told me or maybe all of us about the change from single stage to dual stage airbags. I promptly forgot. But I am sure ‘02 is single and ‘05 is dual. From there I’m probably confused enough to cross wires on vvti / 5AT and airbag.

 

At the end of the day, I assume it's better for your employer than the employees. Otherwise they wouldn't do it.


https://youtu.be/N-kgb1QtSnU?si=REjqd15gkA0ftl-K

 

No, it doesn't affect me/the company I work for. We sell and service the equipment. It's the employees of mining companies, construction companies of various kinds, forestry companies, etc., that will feel the effects.

Edit: It would be more accurate to say it doesn't affect me or my employer in a negative way. It's good for us. Sales = $$$

 

My thoughts exactly.l'Il bet at least half of us able bodies will be out of work in our lifetime, due to AI. Meanwhile the few fat cats indulge in the finer things in life, as they plunge us into distopia.

 

Oh wow, the coal industry being decimated by big business? Never thought I’d live the day to see that one. Again. And again. And again. And again.

 

Increased labor costs force any business to rethink their model. This was just as true in, say, the 18th century, as it is now. Adapt or die.

 

Yeah, coal isn't going anywhere. Too cheap and abundant to other sources. Reality is always what ideologues end up running in to.

 

Exactly... Adapt to profit before people, while the rest of us die.
Not trying to diss you or your company BTW.
Every corporation is doing it.

But the way I see it, I hope y'all have your apocalypse trucks and plenty of supplies/ammo ready before the Mad Max times. They're a coming.
I need a winch.

 

Meh. Too much doom porn for me. I believe the changes future generations will see are much more subtle than Mad Max scenarios. The real problem lies in currency and those who issue it. The answer for the 'average Joe' lies in understanding that. Not saying anything else


No offense taken, btw.

 

@455h0le_dachshund ,

Put another way, corporations have to deal with the same constraints of the currency as the average person and make business decisions on the basis of those constraints or they die, putting people out of work, no? I mean, we're all using it, so we're all under the same constraints, logically. This tells me, logically, the currency, and those who issue it, is the root problem. The answer lies in solving that problem.

 

I think civilization always finds a way to adapt and overcome these types of drastic changes.

The invention of the automobile decimated the horse related industries back in the day. And I'm sure there are plenty of other examples in previous centuries.

The human race is pretty resilient and relies on innovation.

 

Agreed. And electricity put whale harvesters out of work, but, it opened up opportunities to people in the electrical business. And I don't know about you, but I like electricity.

 

Anyone and everyone wants to spend less on labor. That's one of the reasons so many of us do our own work on our vehicles, around the house, in the yard etc.
Of course, another reason is quality of work.

I can tell you right now, I would much rather trust a robot to make my fast food burger than I would some kid that doesn't give two effs, doesn't care about the food hygiene rules and so on. But I wouldn't trust a robot to be my cardiologist.

 

https://youtu.be/j4JNn33BDG0?si=RngpXYTttWXZ_5sl

I love this show. If automation means $3k/month for nothing, sign me up. That's more than I make working now, even before taxes.

 

Id hate to be the guy that has to walk out there surrounded by autonomous machines to repair a broken down CAT construction vehicle. They’d probably roll over me like a bug and keep on working.

 

You make a great point. Labor is always, always, the highest cost of any business. Doesn't matter if it's a small business or a large one. This is why the push towards automation and robotics has entered our culture. It really is basic economics. So, what is the common denominator, is the question? The value of the currency.

 

And why the quality of labor has gone down significantly. You get what you pay for these days, sadly. Can’t have the cost of every-damn-thing constantly climbing while wages sit mostly stagnant for decades for anyone making under 500k/yr, while they skyrocket for everyone above 1mil/yr. Shitty wages attract/encourage shitty quality of labor.

 

Lol. It's becomes a question of do you trust humans to perform rigging procedures properly every time or do you trust sensors and cameras?
13,000,000 pounds has no mercy.

 

And, it's a currency value problem. The dollar isn't worth shit. Why? Because too many have been printed. Cui bono?

 

Guess it depends upon who wrote the software and did they wring out all the bugs.

 

Honestly, the dollar isn’t worth shit because prices are being inflated beyond the scope of reality with no hope of correction.

Eggs had no reason to quadruple in price over the last 5 years after being at 99¢ a dozen for damn near two decades. I was at the store the other day, here in ATL, still $4-5/doz. While at my parents house in rural AL 2 weeks ago, $6-7/doz. There is currently an alarming “rural tax” happening, where anyone outside of cities is getting absolutely fleeced. My parents, thankfully, can shop on-base at Rucker, and miss a lot of it. Going to their local stores, they almost pay more for the two of them than I pay for us and our two kids. There’s no real “reason” for it. Lots of excuses/justifications like “it costs more to deliver out there”, which is BS. It didn’t for decades prior, what changed?!

Chickens didn’t magically disappear over night, or stop laying eggs indefinitely. Eggland’s best used one incident to justify hiking prices, people paid the price for a period because … eggs! … and the prices never went back down, people continued to pay the high price, so everyone else followed suit, and now eggs cost 5x as much, effectively making your dollar worth 1/5 as much when it comes to buying eggs. It’s artificial inflation, “greedflation”.

Eggland’s best doesn’t care, the shareholders love it, all the C-levels got millions in bonuses for their genius price hiking strategy. The workers on the floor processing the eggs got squat. Who wins in this scenario? C-level, shareholders, the BOD. They’re making less product, for more money, and consumers are footing the bill, begrudgingly, blaming everyone other than the corporations behind their misery.

 

The real issue is how much of the labor force can you put out of work and still support a viable economy. If you're not working you're not getting paid and if you're not getting paid you have no money to buy the products being made. And if there aren't enough consumers with money to buy the products the company itself suffers. Think about this, whenever a company has a turndown in business the easy answer has always been layoffs so what do you do when you don't have humans to layoff because the work is being done by robots? You can unplug them but that only saves you electricity. The real problem is, and has been for a long time, short sighted managing. Everybody only looks for ways to save money in the short term with no thought given to long term consequences.

 

Here lately it’s added “looks for ways to hike up profits exponentially in the short term with no thought given to long term consequences”. You can only chase that dragon for so long. A crash is coming, and a reckoning will follow.